Milkman delivers Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 29, 2011 -> 09:19 PM) So many reasons. First, you can't attribute this trade as the reason the Cardinals won. Second, it's impossible to tell who has won the most right now. What if the first friend bought 10,000 shares of Google stock in 1996 with his money, and the lottery winner buys a luxury home but then squanders the rest? I know you're trying to say that you're only talking about the early returns, but your previous posts in the thread certainly belie that. Your entire point on the issue makes no sense when put the way you have put it. I believe you said the Cards won the WS, thus they won the trade, no point in further arguing it. To put it that way is to imply finality, which is exactly what several of us have been cautioning is impossible with a baseball trade this early in its infancy. LOL, to be honest, the first couple posts were just me being a jerk. I still stick with the stuff I said after that. The Cardinals have come out the best in this (Edwin didn't cause them to win it all, but he contributed to it), and likely the other two teams won't accomplish as much from the move as the Cardinals did this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Oct 29, 2011 -> 09:08 PM) Lmao@ this thread. This reminds of the time last year when I was at this party at ISU and multiple alcohol-induced fights broke out. I just stood there and watched. It was oh so fun., Everyone seems to forget that AA traded for the best CF ever, the guy with the career .754 OPS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 29, 2011 -> 08:58 PM) I think this is one of the stupidest posts I have ever seen. How? Did the Cardinals not just win the World Series? Didn't those trades just have a major effect on their playoff run? Did you see the Cardinals bullpen from April til July? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 28, 2011 -> 11:55 PM) Is it now safe to say the Cardinals were winners in this trade? I'd say the Blue Jays and the Cardinals won it. The Cardinals got a needed starter for a talented, albeit struggling outfielder. The Blue Jays got a high-upside outfielder and a Kenny contract for Jason Frasor. The White Sox got Jason Frasor and a busted SP spect. There are two winners, and one clear, obvious loser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 30, 2011 -> 02:47 PM) I'd say the Blue Jays and the Cardinals won it. The Cardinals got a needed starter for a talented, albeit struggling outfielder. The Blue Jays got a high-upside outfielder and a Kenny contract for Jason Frasor. The White Sox got Jason Frasor and a busted SP spect. There are two winners, and one clear, obvious loser. That looks to me like a good observation. Of course it's important to see how everyone involved performs in the coming years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 30, 2011 -> 08:47 AM) I'd say the Blue Jays and the Cardinals won it. The Cardinals got a needed starter for a talented, albeit struggling outfielder. The Blue Jays got a high-upside outfielder and a Kenny contract for Jason Frasor. The White Sox got a Type B reliever and a SP spect. Lest you forget. I also remember when that "busted" SP prospect, as you call him, almost threw a perfect game late in the season. Perhaps you should actually let him pitch before you call him a busted prospect. There is a lot that can go right for all of these teams still. The Cardinals won a World Series and a lot of it has to do with this trade. Toronto might win one soon too. So might the White Sox. You don't know anything yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 30, 2011 -> 08:47 AM) I'd say the Blue Jays and the Cardinals won it. The Cardinals got a needed starter for a talented, albeit struggling outfielder. The Blue Jays got a high-upside outfielder and a Kenny contract for Jason Frasor. The White Sox got Jason Frasor and a busted SP spect. There are two winners, and one clear, obvious loser. How is he a busted SP prospect? Because the White Sox acquired him? Funny that Stewart is busted, but family icon Rasmus is "high-upside," despite the fact that his attitude problems were the entire genesis of this trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 30, 2011 -> 08:47 AM) I'd say the Blue Jays and the Cardinals won it. The Cardinals got a needed starter for a talented, albeit struggling outfielder. The Blue Jays got a high-upside outfielder and a Kenny contract for Jason Frasor. The White Sox got Jason Frasor and a busted SP spect. There are two winners, and one clear, obvious loser. How are the White Sox an obvious loser? They had a surplus of starters and needed to shed salary. They did that and got a young player who may be able to contribute at the major league level. How are the Blue Jays definite winners? They are paying Mark Teahen $5.5 million this year. People on this board wanted KW fired for that same reason. And you still don't know what will happen with Rasmus. He may have talent, but it's not a guarantee that he becomes a star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 My lord. Everything that needed to be said in this thread was said on page 88. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 I seem to recall most people wanting Teahan gone whatever the cost, and not many liking Jackson either, so the fact we got anything for them should be a plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 30, 2011 -> 08:47 AM) I'd say the Blue Jays and the Cardinals won it. The Cardinals got a needed starter for a talented, albeit struggling outfielder. The Blue Jays got a high-upside outfielder and a Kenny contract for Jason Frasor. The White Sox got Jason Frasor and a busted SP spect. There are two winners, and one clear, obvious loser. We dumped Teahen, got another draft pick most likely. Ramus was Rios bad in Toronto and is supposedly a clubhouse problem for a E-Jaxpick, a younglefty reliever, a good righty reliever in Frasor, Dotel draft picks. And they get to pay Teahen. Also, the Sox gget Frasor picks and a "busted" SP prospect who almost threw a perfect game and looked damn good at times. He was up and down and the last time this organization gave up on a guy like that, he was a 16 game winner. There are two obvious winners and one clear loser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Oct 30, 2011 -> 05:02 PM) We dumped Teahen, got another draft pick most likely. Ramus was Rios bad in Toronto and is supposedly a clubhouse problem for a E-Jaxpick, a younglefty reliever, a good righty reliever in Frasor, Dotel draft picks. And they get to pay Teahen. Also, the Sox gget Frasor picks and a "busted" SP prospect who almost threw a perfect game and looked damn good at times. He was up and down and the last time this organization gave up on a guy like that, he was a 16 game winner. There are two obvious winners and one clear loser. If by "looked damn good at times" you mean "that one game", then yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Oct 30, 2011 -> 05:16 PM) If by "looked damn good at times" you mean "that one game", then yes Yes. But that being said, he did look good at other times. Not damn good, but good. I like how he pitches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 30, 2011 -> 08:47 AM) I'd say the Blue Jays and the Cardinals won it. The Cardinals got a needed starter for a talented, albeit struggling outfielder. The Blue Jays got a high-upside outfielder and a Kenny contract for Jason Frasor. The White Sox got Jason Frasor and a busted SP spect. There are two winners, and one clear, obvious loser. This post is just ridiculous. Rasmus has done s*** so far for the Blue Jays, yet you have the nerve to call them a clear winner. You can say the Cardinals did well in the trade, but let's wait a couple years before we judge the Sox or the Blue Jays. Only an idiot would try to speak in absolutes right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 30, 2011 -> 05:35 PM) This post is just ridiculous. Rasmus has done s*** so far for the Blue Jays, yet you have the nerve to call them a clear winner. You can say the Cardinals did well in the trade, but let's wait a couple years before we judge the Sox or the Blue Jays. Only an idiot would try to speak in absolutes right now. Or a Sith... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetkincaid Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 29, 2011 -> 09:23 PM) Sometimes I wish I could punch you in the face. This made me lol in the Mexican restaurant I'm in right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 30, 2011 -> 08:47 AM) The Cardinals got a needed starter for a talented, albeit struggling outfielder. The Blue Jays got a high-upside outfielder and a Kenny contract for Jason Frasor. The White Sox got Jason Frasor and a busted SP spect. There are two winners, and one clear, obvious loser. At this point, the Jays are the losers. Rasmus didnt do anything and they cleared out their bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 QUOTE (Pale Sox @ Oct 28, 2011 -> 11:54 PM) I have a hard time believing the Blue Jays regret trading a bunch of non-cornerstone bullpen pieces for Colby Rasmus, a potential star CF. Staying on the Blue Jays as an example, I remember them trading Jeff Kent for David Cone. They Jays won the WS, but the Mets (who were not a contender) received a HOF second baseman. Both teams won. The situations of teams involved in the trade dictated the needs and the therefore the outcome. To say the Cardinals "won" inherently says the other team(s) lost. This is simply not the case. Each team had different needs, and each teams needs were fulfilled. The Cardinals got pitching depth, the Jays got upside future talent, and the White Sox shed payroll (with a slight infusion of young talent). It's a common flaw of those outside the industry to assume one team is trying to fleece another. It makes for a nice narrative when it's time to print some stories, but it's an inaccurate representation of reality. Or we could look back at the Foulke for Koch deal. On the surface, it was a disaster for the White Sox. It led to Gordon/Marte and eventually Shingo as the Sox closer. It also netted Cotts, who flamed out as a starter but had one anomalous season in 2005, which resulted in a World Series. Did the White Sox really "win" this trade simply because they acquired Cotts as well and won the World Series, and the A's didn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 30, 2011 -> 05:53 PM) Or a Sith... It's VERY clear the biggest win for the Cardinals was clearing out the drama and clubhouse intrigue in the showdown with TLR. It isn't a coincidence that the team took off after he was subtracted (much the same way the White Sox probably will when Rios is gone)? As far as Jackson goes, they get back Wainright and add Shelby Miller, they'll be just fine in the starting pitcher category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 30, 2011 -> 06:53 PM) Or a Sith... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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