Kenny Hates Prospects Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:55 PM) Only way you make this deal now is if the spect is an absolute stud. And given that we haven't heard his name yet, I highly doubt that. Mark Teahen is an inverse stud weighing down the value of Jackson. If Jackson = Frasor + very good prospect OR Jackson = Frasor + Teahen's deal off the books + halfway decent prospect, then I'll take that second deal 7 days per week. It's much, much, much easier to buy a prospect that BA will slurp all over than it is to dump a terrible contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:02 PM) You do realize Edwin Jackson is most likely a 2 month rental or will cost a ton next year, and while ultra talented his performance has been far from consistent. You really don't know what you would be getting. You may get 2 months of Cy Young calibur pitching or 5th starter numbers, if that. Teams are going away from giving top prospects for those types anymore. Look at the crap Cleveland got for CC, a far surer bet. His ERA with the White Sox over the past year has been very respectable. I'm not saying we're going to get Grady Sizemore and Cliff Lee, but I would think we would do better than a salary dump 5 full days before the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 So we have a manager that is incapable of using a bullpen properly and we gave him another body. Can't wait for the first 8 th inning pressure situation when ozzie leaves frasor warming up while he let's brunet or oh anger those stressful outs. The only thing more irresponsible would be adding another slappy guy to guillens arsenal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:05 PM) His ERA with the White Sox over the past year has been very respectable. I'm not saying we're going to get Grady Sizemore and Cliff Lee, but I would think we would do better than a salary dump 5 full days before the deadline. You (and others) are right that this trade doesn't make sense. But, these are the White Sox we're talking about! I could see Kenny doing this. He would rationalize it by saying it's a win now move that saves money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friend of Nordhagen Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:05 PM) So we have a manager that is incapable of using a bullpen properly and we gave him another body. Can't wait for the first 8 th inning pressure situation when ozzie leaves frasor warming up while he let's brunet or oh anger those stressful outs. The only thing more irresponsible would be adding another slappy guy to guillens arsenal. Well, De Aza is on the way . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:04 PM) Mark Teahen is an inverse stud weighing down the value of Jackson. If Jackson = Frasor + very good prospect OR Jackson = Frasor + Teahen's deal off the books + halfway decent prospect, then I'll take that second deal 7 days per week. It's much, much, much easier to buy a prospect that BA will slurp all over than it is to dump a terrible contract. It would be absolutely foolish to waste Jackson's value (or at least what I believe to be his value right now) to shed Teahen's salary. Foolish foolish foolish. Teahen is owed about $10 million over the next two years. Truly a waste of money indeed. But certainly not enough to miss an opportunity to get a very good prospect out of Jackson due to the pitching market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:06 PM) You (and others) are right that this trade doesn't make sense. But, these are the White Sox we're talking about! I could see Kenny doing this. He would rationalize it by saying it's a win now move that saves money. Even if you like to buy into the Sox being dumb, how does this benefit Toronto? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:07 PM) Even if you like to buy into the Sox being dumb, how does this benefit Toronto? They're in on Ubaldo, and maybe have decided they can't get him and would rather go after Edwin and take their chances they can sign him long term. Or maybe they think they can turn Edwin into Ubaldo (although I admit that scenario is not likely). Edited July 27, 2011 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 04:07 AM) Even if you like to buy into the Sox being dumb, how does this benefit Toronto? They're obsessed with getting Jimenez. Maybe they know they can get more parts by turning around and trading Jackson then they could of with Frasor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:07 PM) Even if you like to buy into the Sox being dumb, how does this benefit Toronto? It only makes sense if Anthopoulos is able to flip EJ for something desirable. I wouldn't put it past him though, he's made some shrewd moves since taking over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 this is the worst thing i've ever heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:09 PM) They're in on Ubaldo, and maybe have decided they can't get him and would rather go after Edwin and take their chances they can sign him long term. So then we would only be trading the two to Toronto because they would be willing to take on Teahen's salary in order to get back a much better prospect from Colorado because the Rockies cannot afford to take Teahen's salary from us. If the $10 million owed to Teahen over the next few years is that much of a noose around our necks right now, then I really fear this impending roster turnover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 And how does adding $5 million a year for the next two years in a guy who won't play help them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 If this is true, did the horrible 2007 season make KW start sniffing glue? CQ is the only good trade that he's made since then. Peavy trade was good at the time, but in hindsight looks terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Well Im not seeing anyone else even mentioning a rumor like this, so if the trade is leaking youd think someone else would be reporting. Itll be midnight soon and the Sox have a game in the afternoon, just doesnt seem likely that this isnt being reported yet if its done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 04:11 AM) And how does adding $5 million a year for the next two years in a guy who won't play help them? That lineup is extremely heavy with righties, and they've had miserable production from third base this year. Also, they'd be willing to take on that 5 million if it means securing Jimenez down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Assuming this is true . . . So it's a good trade for KW because it dumps Teahen's salary yet the Teahen extension was a tremendous f***up on KW's behalf that next to no one thought was a good idea at the time? I love how KW makes bad trades to cover up for bad trades, that's been his MO over the past few years. So 6 years of Dan Hudson for a season's worth of good production from Jackson (which won us nothing), 2 months of Frasor, a probable mediocre prospect and maybe Type B compensation. Must we give away good starting pitching in every f***ing trade? Go over budget spending a s*** ton of money on players who don't produce so then you're apparently forced to dump good starting pitching for a reliever, a prospect that I assume will be mediocre and a supp. pick in a god damn seller's market because your team sucks and thus attendance is s*** and you need to start slashing payroll. I pray the prospect is good but I don't see why Toronto would throw in a minor leaguer that's worth a damn, it makes no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:13 PM) I pray the prospect is good but I don't see why Toronto would throw in a minor leaguer that's worth a damn, it makes no sense. It won't be a quality prospect. It sounds like a salary dump and eventual Type B compensation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:13 PM) So it's a good trade for KW because it dumps Teahen's salary yet the Teahen extension was a tremendous f***up on KW's behalf that next to no one thought was a good idea at the time? I love how KW makes bad trades to cover up for bad trades, that's been his MO over the past few years. So 6 years of Dan Hudson for a season's worth of good production from Jackson (which won us nothing), 2 months of Frasor and maybe Type B compensation. Must we give away good starting pitching in every f***ing trade? Go over budget spending a s*** ton of money on players who don't produce so then you're apparently forced to dump good starting pitching for a reliever, a prospect that I assume will be mediocre and a supp. pick in a god damn seller's market because your team sucks and thus attendance is s*** and you need to start slashing payroll. I pray the prospect is good but I don't see why Toronto would throw in a minor leaguer that's worth a damn, it makes no sense. Come on...$10 million isn't going to force us to make this mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:59 PM) Maybe its a 3 way trade. That was my first thought when I saw the thread. According to the Rasmus story in the Post Dispatch last week, the Sox and Cards may need a 3rd team to get a deal done because the Sox did not have the prospect(s) the Cards were looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:13 PM) Assuming this is true . . . So it's a good trade for KW because it dumps Teahen's salary yet the Teahen extension was a tremendous f***up on KW's behalf that next to no one thought was a good idea at the time? I love how KW makes bad trades to cover up for bad trades, that's been his MO over the past few years. So 6 years of Dan Hudson for a season's worth of good production from Jackson (which won us nothing), 2 months of Frasor, a probable mediocre prospect and maybe Type B compensation. Must we give away good starting pitching in every f***ing trade? Go over budget spending a s*** ton of money on players who don't produce so then you're apparently forced to dump good starting pitching for a reliever, a prospect that I assume will be mediocre and a supp. pick in a god damn seller's market because your team sucks and thus attendance is s*** and you need to start slashing payroll. I pray the prospect is good but I don't see why Toronto would throw in a minor leaguer that's worth a damn, it makes no sense. Tell me what you really think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunk23 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 So let me get this straight. If this is true... KW effectively traded Josh Fields, Chris Getz, and Daniel Hudson for relief pitcher Jason Frasor, cash, and a prospect. Color me skeptical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:13 PM) So it's a good trade for KW because it dumps Teahen's salary yet the Teahen extension was a tremendous f***up on KW's behalf that next to no one thought was a good idea at the time? I love how KW makes bad trades to cover up for bad trades, that's been his MO over the past few years. So 6 years of Dan Hudson for a season's worth of good production from Jackson (which won us nothing), 2 months of Frasor, a probable mediocre prospect and maybe Type B compensation. Must we give away good starting pitching in every f***ing trade? Go over budget spending a s*** ton of money on players who don't produce so then you're apparently forced to dump good starting pitching for a reliever, a prospect that I assume will be mediocre and a supp. pick in a god damn seller's market because your team sucks and thus attendance is s*** and you need to start slashing payroll. I pray the prospect is good but I don't see why Toronto would throw in a minor leaguer that's worth a damn, it makes no sense. The draft pick we get is worthless to our team. We would need to go overslot to get anything of value. So in the end Daniel hudson + 1 nets us a Mac conference reliever next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:07 PM) It would be absolutely foolish to waste Jackson's value (or at least what I believe to be his value right now) to shed Teahen's salary. Foolish foolish foolish. Teahen is owed about $10 million over the next two years. Truly a waste of money indeed. But certainly not enough to miss an opportunity to get a very good prospect out of Jackson due to the pitching market. It's not just Teahen. It's Dunn, Rios, and Peavy too. If we rebuild next year then those guys are going to be taking up a whole lot of what JR is going to greenlight. And even now, those guys aren't going anywhere, so the money has to come from somewhere if we need to add another high salary guy. I mean, who else can we trade that makes money and doesn't turn us into a pure seller? Also, I'm not sure we would get a player for Edwin that the board here would think is worth it. We'd probably get a couple guys who are far away and can't help right now. Getting Frasor to help now, plus the possible comp, plus dumping Teahen, plus a prospect? In my eyes this is a great move, especially if there is another one coming. I hate losing the SP depth and that could really, really hurt us, although we definitely need the other arm in the pen. And no matter what, our offense is going to have to get us into the playoffs since the pitching is already doing its job, and this move does not detract from the offense. I like it if true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Unless we are getting an 19-year-old Babe Ruth, WTF is Kenny thinking? Who in Toronto's system could we realistically fetch? They have Travis d'Arnaud in the minors and are really high on current starter Arencibia, so maybe him as he would be redundant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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