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Jackson & Teahen to TOR for Frasor & Stewart (RHP)


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QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:18 PM)
As Kalapse perfectly said above, Kenny Williams is just terrible at his job now. If you go into a season with philosophy of "All In", and then you have to start trading some of your starting players when you're 4.5 games out for lesser players to cover up for your previous failures, then you need to go become the GM of the Windy City Thunderbolts. This clown has f***ed with this organization for far too long lately. People don't bash his transactions enough because they're just as infatuated with the "big name" players the Sox have brought in as Kenny was.

For the love of God, what has happened to this board?

 

Kenny can't hit for Adam Dunn. You guys all saw what the REAL Alex Rios looks like. Everyone here has seen what Edwin Jackson can do on the mound. Kenny has acquired a lot of legitimate talent and has gotten burned by it. But guess what? It happens. We ran out Jerry Owens and Dewayne Wise for how long? Erstad as an Opening Day CF? Listening to Ozzie and deciding NOT to bring back Thome basically for a song just because the manager is a moron, and having Jones/Kotsay at DH? Kenny has made far, far worse moves than any of these here being b****ed about, only no one is b****ing about them because both the risk and reward were very low in those cases. The Teahen deal and signing has been far dumber than Rios; Rios wasn't even dumb, it was RISKY just like the Peavy deal. Same thing with Swisher the first time. You can rip the second deal all you want, but Kenny gave up good talent to get good talent. There is nothing wrong with that. Basically what has happened is Kenny got a couple bad ends of good deals on paper, just like what happened to Texas in the Danks-McCarthy deal and what hapopened to the Phillies in the Freddy deal, or the Mariners in the other Freddy deal.

 

You can't judge everything in hindsight. This board is being f***ing stupid about Kenny. You can't expect a GM to outright rape the competition again and again, because that's not reality. Hudson and Gio Gonzalez are the only young players worth a s*** that Kenny lost, and he traded both of those guys to try to win a division, and in each case his own players let him down on the field. I can see getting upset about the team this year, but WTF are your expectations?

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QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:26 PM)
I can't defend a GM who, given a 127 million dollar payroll, put together a team that has been under .500 almost all season and struggling to tread water in a bad division.

Then don't defend him. But jesus christ, he signed what many of you described as the perfect fit for the offense last offseason, and the guy is inexplicably having one of the worst seasons of any modern-day player in baseball history, and it's the GM's fault?

 

The players we need are on the roster. Our manager can't get out of their way long enough to put together a win streak.

 

I blame Ozzie.

 

But whatever.

Edited by iamshack
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QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 12:25 AM)
This trade makes so little sense that it scares me it's legit. Also, not sure how true it is, but a Cards buddy of mine heard STL wanted Sale and Beckham

 

Are we trading for Albert Pujols? No way we give up those guys to get Rasmus.

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QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:26 PM)
I can't defend a GM who, given a 127 million dollar payroll, put together a team that has been under .500 almost all season and struggling to tread water in a bad division.

How can you blame him for the players underachieving? YOU CAN'T. On paper, this team should run away with this division and be a legit world series contender. That's all a GM could do, make a team look good on paper.

 

Christ on a stick I can't believe people are blaming KW for this team's failures.

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QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 04:30 AM)
For the love of God, what has happened to this board?

 

Kenny can't hit for Adam Dunn. You guys all saw what the REAL Alex Rios looks like. Everyone here has seen what Edwin Jackson can do on the mound. Kenny has acquired a lot of legitimate talent and has gotten burned by it. But guess what? It happens. We ran out Jerry Owens and Dewayne Wise for how long? Erstad as an Opening Day CF? Listening to Ozzie and deciding NOT to bring back Thome basically for a song just because the manager is a moron, and having Jones/Kotsay at DH? Kenny has made far, far worse moves than any of these here being b****ed about, only no one is b****ing about them because both the risk and reward were very low in those cases. The Teahen deal and signing has been far dumber than Rios; Rios wasn't even dumb, it was RISKY just like the Peavy deal. Same thing with Swisher the first time. You can rip the second deal all you want, but Kenny gave up good talent to get good talent. There is nothing wrong with that. Basically what has happened is Kenny got a couple bad ends of good deals on paper, just like what happened to Texas in the Danks-McCarthy deal and what hapopened to the Phillies in the Freddy deal, or the Mariners in the other Freddy deal.

 

You can't judge everything in hindsight. This board is being f***ing stupid about Kenny. You can't expect a GM to outright rape the competition again and again, because that's not reality. Hudson and Gio Gonzalez are the only young players worth a s*** that Kenny lost, and he traded both of those guys to try to win a division, and in each case his own players let him down on the field. I can see getting upset about the team this year, but WTF are your expectations?

 

Is it too much to ask KW and Ozzie to do some research about how a guy would fit in, in the locker room, before spending a ton of resources to acquire them (ie: OC and Swisher).

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QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:31 PM)
Just checked the whitesox.com board, and the original tweeter seems to have a good track record on getting trade info.

 

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx...&tid=115142

 

If it happens tomorrow, I'll tip my cap. But common sense says Edwin Jackson doesn't stay with Toronto past Sunday.

This Kona guy has broken a few deals before. I remember his name.

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QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:29 PM)
Someone called The Score a few weeks back and actually said something very profound. When KW is limited in resources, he actually is better. When he has to go out and find the bargains and be real crafty to make the team better, he finds real good ways to that. But when given a blank check, he isn't as scrupulous in his ways and tends to make big mistakes, which we are seeing now.

It wasn't me on the Score, but I mentioned this a couple of years ago. When he had a tight budget and wound up with his plan C or D or E or F, it turned out better than plan A or plan B. The 2005 team is a prime example. He was supposed to sign Vizquel and Jared Wright. Instead he gets lucky Kaz Matsui is a bust so Iguchi is cheap, lets Hawk talk him into signing AJ and not sticking with Ben Davis, and signs El Duque with in turn helped Jose Contreras.

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QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:33 PM)
Is it too much to ask KW and Ozzie to do some research about how a guy would fit in, in the locker room, before spending a ton of resources to acquire them (ie: OC and Swisher).

It doesn't seem that Swisher had any issues in the clubhouse in OAK or NY.

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QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:33 PM)
Is it too much to ask KW and Ozzie to do some research about how a guy would fit in, in the locker room, before spending a ton of resources to acquire them (ie: OC and Swisher).

Ozzie do research?

 

He is a stubborn mule and JR is too baseball incompetent and loyal to fire him.

 

Kenny can only try and put the pieces on the roster he needs. He obviously has no control over how they are implemented.

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QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:23 PM)
CWS get Rasmus

STL gets Jackson, TOR prospect

TOR gets Teahen

 

I really have no clue. This simply doesn't make sense.

 

Why assume these are the only guys moving in a 3-way deal?

I know this is all wild speculation at this point, but... if there is some truth to it, there could be other players moving too.

 

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QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:31 PM)
How can you blame him for the players underachieving? YOU CAN'T. On paper, this team should run away with this division and be a legit world series contender. That's all a GM could do, make a team look good on paper.

 

Christ on a stick I can't believe people are blaming KW for this team's failures.

 

The only completely impossible to predict thing on this team right now, in terms of underachieving, is Dunn. I can't blame anybody for that, other than Dunn himself. Outside of that though, I mean Beckham, Rios, Pierre, Morel? I'm really not that shocked at any of their seasons, and I don't see how anybody could be. However, I think the Sox would be in 1st if Dunn were Dunn right now.

 

To make a GM blameless for a 127 million dollar payroll being below .500 in a bad division is ridiculous though. Especially considering his recent track record with trades (awful), and not firing his awful manager (awful).

 

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QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:35 PM)
But don't you think it's cause the Sox locker room at the time was much more conservative and uptight?

I've been in the Sox clubhouse numerous times. There is never an uptight moment in there. In fact, I've been in there at times when the team has struggled mightily and you'd think the team was on a 20 game win streak.

 

You can't go around and ask 25 guys what they think about adding Player X to the team.

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QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:23 PM)
CWS get Rasmus

STL gets Jackson, TOR prospect

TOR gets Teahen

 

I really have no clue. This simply doesn't make sense.

I know you were just spitballing there, but Sox would have to give up more to the Cards (and/or Blue Jays) to make that work.

 

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QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:36 PM)
The only completely impossible to predict thing on this team right now, in terms of underachieving, is Dunn. I can't blame anybody for that, other than Dunn himself. Outside of that though, I mean Beckham, Rios, Pierre, Morel? I'm really not that shocked at any of their seasons, and I don't see how anybody could be. However, I think the Sox would be in 1st if Dunn were Dunn right now.

 

To make a GM blameless for a 127 million dollar payroll being below .500 in a bad division is ridiculous though. Especially considering his recent track record with trades (awful), and not firing his awful manager (awful).

If Dunn is even close to his career averages, the White Sox are in first place right now. What does that say about the struggles of the other guys you mentioned?

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QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 04:37 AM)
I've been in the Sox clubhouse numerous times. There is never an uptight moment in there. In fact, I've been in there at times when the team has struggled mightily and you'd think the team was on a 20 game win streak.

 

You can't go around and ask 25 guys what they think about adding Player X to the team.

 

See, I always heard that Konerko, Dye and Thome had control of the clubhouse a few years ago, and when Swisher/Cabrera came in there and spice it up, that's when things started to go down hill. I'm sure it's different now with Dye/Thome gone

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QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:37 PM)
I've been in the Sox clubhouse numerous times. There is never an uptight moment in there. In fact, I've been in there at times when the team has struggled mightily and you'd think the team was on a 20 game win streak.

 

You can't go around and ask 25 guys what they think about adding Player X to the team.

 

I don't think the problem is, or ever has been (at least under Ozzie), in the clubhouse. The Sox issues are in game management and roster construction related.

Edited by whitesoxfan101
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QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:39 PM)
I know you were just spitballing there, but Sox would have to give up more to the Cards (and/or Blue Jays) to make that work.

Right, I figured there would be more involved, I just have no idea what minor leagues could be a part of it.

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QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:37 PM)
I've been in the Sox clubhouse numerous times. There is never an uptight moment in there. In fact, I've been in there at times when the team has struggled mightily and you'd think the team was on a 20 game win streak.

 

You can't go around and ask 25 guys what they think about adding Player X to the team.

KW has said he does ask players about specific guys. If the team acts like they are on a 20 game winning streak when they are struggling, maybe that's part of the problem.

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