Kenny Hates Prospects Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:33 PM) Is it too much to ask KW and Ozzie to do some research about how a guy would fit in, in the locker room, before spending a ton of resources to acquire them (ie: OC and Swisher). They supposedly did in both cases, didn't they? And besides, these guys all hang out on the field before games. Swisher is a bit of a dainty little dickhead, but he's somewhat affable, and OC has been around a long time. I'm sure the key Sox players and coaches knew enough about them not to worry. And really, the only issues were Swisher's crappy hitting. OC was a FA to be and a brilliant Type A-for-Type B swap. He could have been Oney's plaything and he still wasn't going to get a long-term deal to come back here after the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:39 PM) I don't think the problem is, or ever has been (at least under Ozzie), in the clubhouse. The Sox issues are in game management and roster construction related. Game management, yes. Roster construction, no. The day before the season started, the White Sox were AL Central favorites and legit contenders. After opening day, the White Sox looked to be on the path of something special. Now we have an awful team full of awful players with awful contracts. Give me a break. They're 2 games under .500 with seemingly everyone but PK and CQ hitting like s***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:39 PM) If Dunn is even close to his career averages, the White Sox are in first place right now. What does that say about the struggles of the other guys you mentioned? I don't know. It says our division is really bad? The struggles of Beckham, Rios, Pierre, and Morel haven't been a surprise. Perhaps the extent of them has been a surprise (but even that, not so much). I just find it ridiculous that so many people think Alex Rios underachieving massively/not giving good effort is a surprise. Or that Juan Pierre isn't aging well is a surprise. Or that Brent Morel not being able to hit MLB pitching is a surprise. Or that Gordon Beckham having an OPS under 700 again is a surprise. None of them are. Adam Dunn is a SHOCK, but those guys aren't a shock or surprise. Edited July 27, 2011 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 04:42 AM) I don't know. It says our division is really bad? The struggles of Beckham, Rios, Pierre, and Morel haven't been a surprise. Perhaps the extent of them has been a surprise (but even that, not so much). I just find it ridiculous that so many people think Alex Rios underachieving massively/not giving good effort is a surprise. Or that Juan Pierre isn't aging well is a surprise. Or that Brent Morel not being able to hit MLB pitching is a surprise. Or that Gordon Beckham having an OPS under 700 again is a surprise. None of them are. Adam Dunn is a SHOCK, but those guys aren't a shock or surprise. As much as I hate Rios and had minimal hope for Morel, I never imagined they'd be two of the weakest hitters we've seen in a Sox jersey in a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:40 PM) KW has said he does ask players about specific guys. If the team acts like they are on a 20 game winning streak when they are struggling, maybe that's part of the problem. God no. I completely feel the opposite way. You HAVE to stay loose in baseball. 162 games. A 6 month grind. If you sit and think about everything all the time, you're going to think yourself right out of the MLB. I'd much rather have a clubhouse where guys stay loose than a clubhouse where it's silent and everyone is sitting at their locker quietly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:42 PM) Game management, yes. Roster construction, no. The day before the season started, the White Sox were AL Central favorites and legit contenders. After opening day, the White Sox looked to be on the path of something special. Now we have an awful team full of awful players with awful contracts. Give me a break. They're 2 games under .500 with seemingly everyone but PK and CQ hitting like s***. Couldn't help but laugh at the bolded. The Sox looked on the path of something special after playing great in 1/162nd of their season?! Also, being the favorite before the season is irrelevant. Being a paper champion doesn't get you very far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I just laugh that people state bulls*** like "guys are problems in the clubhouse" as if they're f***ing facts. Not a single person here can make that claim and using that as something to support an argument is comical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 05:44 AM) I just laugh that people state bulls*** like "guys are problems in the clubhouse" as if they're f***ing facts. Not a single person here can make that claim and using that as something to support an argument is comical. Our most "problematic" clubhouse of the last ten years won the division in epic fashion. That should tell you how much a clubhouse means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:42 PM) I don't know. It says our division is really bad? The struggles of Beckham, Rios, Pierre, and Morel haven't been a surprise. Perhaps the extent of them has been a surprise (but even that, not so much). I just find it ridiculous that so many people think Alex Rios underachieving massively/not giving good effort is a surprise. Or that Juan Pierre isn't aging well is a surprise. Or that Brent Morel not being able to hit MLB pitching is a surprise. Or that Gordon Beckham having an OPS under 700 again is a surprise. None of them are. Adam Dunn is a SHOCK, but those guys aren't a shock or surprise. You're proving my point as to just how good the White Sox could and SHOULD be. Even with Rios, Beckham, Morel and Pierre (who is actually playing well now), Dunn gets hot for 1 week and all the sudden you'd forget about all the problems the Sox had instantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:44 PM) Couldn't help but laugh at the bolded. The Sox looked on the path of something special after playing great in 1/162nd of their season?! Also, being the favorite before the season is irrelevant. Being a paper champion doesn't get you very far. Don't forget that something special also involved giving up 10 runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjshoe04 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:42 PM) I don't know. It says our division is really bad? The struggles of Beckham, Rios, Pierre, and Morel haven't been a surprise. Perhaps the extent of them has been a surprise (but even that, not so much). I just find it ridiculous that so many people think Alex Rios underachieving massively/not giving good effort is a surprise. Or that Juan Pierre isn't aging well is a surprise. Or that Brent Morel not being able to hit MLB pitching is a surprise. Or that Gordon Beckham having an OPS under 700 again is a surprise. None of them are. Adam Dunn is a SHOCK, but those guys aren't a shock or surprise. You're not surprised that Alex Rios is THIS bad? I know I am. He's 135 points under his career low OPS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:43 PM) As much as I hate Rios and had minimal hope for Morel, I never imagined they'd be two of the weakest hitters we've seen in a Sox jersey in a long time. We all saw Rios down the stretch in 2009 after he was brought in, and nobody should be surprised that it's happening again IMO. Really, you could see him starting to fall off the last two months of last season. And I think a lot of us had minimal hope for Morel. He's probably the guy among the little 4 I mentioned who has surprised me the most with his level of ineptitude. But, he's a rookie. It can spiral quickly if it starts bad for someone like that. Edited July 27, 2011 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:44 PM) God no. I completely feel the opposite way. You HAVE to stay loose in baseball. 162 games. A 6 month grind. If you sit and think about everything all the time, you're going to think yourself right out of the MLB. I'd much rather have a clubhouse where guys stay loose than a clubhouse where it's silent and everyone is sitting at their locker quietly. The White Sox perfomance the last few years would make me think otherwise. Lets get some guys who get pissed off when they lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 04:44 AM) I just laugh that people state bulls*** like "guys are problems in the clubhouse" as if they're f***ing facts. Not a single person here can make that claim and using that as something to support an argument is comical. Wait, you're arguing that Cabrera and Swisher weren't liked by his teammates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:44 PM) Couldn't help but laugh at the bolded. The Sox looked on the path of something special after playing great in 1/162nd of their season?! Also, being the favorite before the season is irrelevant. Being a paper champion doesn't get you very far. Being a paper champion is all a GM can do. And the bolded pat is absolutely true. People were as optimistic as ever after that game. They scored a ton of runs, Dunn hits a HR in his 2nd AB as a Sox player. Things are gravy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:46 PM) You're not surprised that Alex Rios is THIS bad? I know I am. He's 135 points under his career low OPS. Last year, I spent the entire year expecting the other shoe to drop. After hearing all of the reports on him from Toronto, and then seeing his performance in 2009 with the White Sox, it was hard to think something like that happening again was impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapzk Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 another tweeter posted that the same guy broke out the news of orlando cabrera/garland deal and also the 1st Peavy deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:47 PM) Being a paper champion is all a GM can do. And the bolded pat is absolutely true. People were as optimistic as ever after that game. They scored a ton of runs, Dunn hits a HR in his 2nd AB as a Sox player. Things are gravy. BS. The GM's job is to put together teams that win on the field, not on paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:47 PM) The White Sox perfomance the last few years would make me think otherwise. Lets get some guys who get pissed off when they lose. They ARE pissed when they lose and guys who have struggled KNOW they are struggling and take accountability. But they don't carry it over to the next game. You can't stew about a loss forever. Go out and get the next one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 05:47 AM) Being a paper champion is all a GM can do. And the bolded pat is absolutely true. People were as optimistic as ever after that game. They scored a ton of runs, Dunn hits a HR in his 2nd AB as a Sox player. Things are gravy. I hated the Rios and Peavy acquisitions, but the transactions that I feel KW was the most incompetent with was the Hudson/Jackson trade (and who knows if Rizzo f'd him over). Just showed a lot of short-sightedness, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:47 PM) Being a paper champion is all a GM can do. And the bolded pat is absolutely true. People were as optimistic as ever after that game. They scored a ton of runs, Dunn hits a HR in his 2nd AB as a Sox player. Things are gravy. The bolded part is true, but it shows people are stupid sometimes. Everybody always overreacts to opening day, for better or worse. One of my least favorite parts of baseball. I wouldn't say the White Sox were a paper champion as much as they were a paper team that could win in the high 80's again and win a bad division this year. For the price we're paying, I think expectations should be higher than that (although they clearly were for you, which I suppose I kind of get). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjshoe04 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:48 PM) Last year, I spent the entire year expecting the other shoe to drop. After hearing all of the reports on him from Toronto, and then seeing his performance in 2009 with the White Sox, it was hard to think something like that happening again was impossible. Ok, I certainly didn't expect him to be like he was the first half of last season, but I didn't expect him to be the worst centerfielder in baseball either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:49 PM) BS. The GM's job is to put together teams that win on the field, not on paper. Please, PLEASE tell me how a GM goes about doing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (kapzk @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 05:48 AM) another tweeter posted that the same guy broke out the news of orlando cabrera/garland deal and also the 1st Peavy deal Was it kona that broke the Peavy deal? I remember someone on that board saying it out of nowhere late on a week night. I'd be stunned at this point if this rumor is false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:49 PM) They ARE pissed when they lose and guys who have struggled KNOW they are struggling and take accountability. But they don't carry it over to the next game. You can't stew about a loss forever. Go out and get the next one. That's not happening. If they are the paper champion every year like you claim, why isn't it translating on the field? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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