Jackson & Teahen to TOR for Frasor & Stewart (RHP)

[SoxFan1]

Last year, I spent the entire year expecting the other shoe to drop. After hearing all of the reports on him from Toronto, and then seeing his performance in 2009 with the White Sox, it was hard to think something like that happening again was impossible.

.878 OPS in the 1st half last year. After Greg Walker completely changed his swing in the offseason.

[maggsmaggs]

BS. The GM's job is to put together teams that win on the field, not on paper.

Bingo. Every year KW has put the best team on paper according to many. Most years, we don't win s***. The players change, but the GM remains. Who is at fault?

Edited July 27, 2011 by maggsmaggs

[SoxFan1]

The bolded part is true, but it shows people are stupid sometimes. Everybody always overreacts to opening day, for better or worse. One of my least favorite parts of baseball. I wouldn't say the White Sox were a paper champion as much as they were a paper team that could win in the high 80's again and win a bad division this year. For the price we're paying, I think expectations should be higher than that (although they clearly were for you, which I suppose I kind of get).

Give me a break. 1, people thought the Sox were legit contenders. 2, no one thought the division would be this bad.

[fathom]

Bingo. Every year KW has put the best team on the field. Most years, we don't win s***. The players change, but the GM remains. Who is at fault?

 

I'd be willing to give KW a few more years if it means he brings in a new manager. However, if he's going to lack the balls to fire Ozzie and/or stand up to him, then I hope they both leave.

[Dick Allen]

Please, PLEASE tell me how a GM goes about doing this.

One would be not claiming guys owed $50 million on waivers. Another would be drafting well, another would be ridding the organization of the proverbial sucking off of anything Minnesota Twins. Not overpaying medicre players. Being realistic in expectations. There are several things. You don't play the game on paper. KW has failed the last several years. That's just fact. I'm no fan of Ozzie either. I hope they both go.

 

Its KW's job to determine how they will perform moving forward, not just by what they have done in the past. If that's all it took, the highest payrolls have the best GMs.

Edited July 27, 2011 by Dick Allen

[whitesoxfan101]

I'd be willing to give KW a few more years if it means he brings in a new manager. However, if he's going to lack the balls to fire Ozzie and/or stand up to him, then I hope they both leave.

 

Does he even have the authority to fire Ozzie if he wanted to?

[SoxFan1]

That's not happening. If they are the paper champion every year like you claim, why isn't it translating on the field?

I never said every year. I think it's quite clear that people had high expectations for this team coming into the 2011 season and that most thought they were the favorites to win the division.

 

Again, the GM doesn't go out there and pitch or hit. How is KW at fault for the struggles of Adam Dunn? Gordon Beckham?

[Buehrle>Wood]

Was it kona that broke the Peavy deal? I remember someone on that board saying it out of nowhere late on a week night. I'd be stunned at this point if this rumor is false.

Didn't that trade happen right at the deadline? Not at night...unless you mean the first one.

[fathom]

Didn't that trade happen right at the deadline? Not at night...unless you mean the first one.

 

First one

[maggsmaggs]

I never said every year. I think it's quite clear that people had high expectations for this team coming into the 2011 season and that most thought they were the favorites to win the division.

 

Again, the GM doesn't go out there and pitch or hit. How is KW at fault for the struggles of Adam Dunn? Gordon Beckham?

Dunn is clearly not KWs fault. But Peavy is. Rios is. Pierre is. Not having any suitable replacements in the minors except Viciedo. Having to rely on big-money acquisitions because we don't have any cheap, young and good talent in our system. That's all on KW.

[whitesoxfan101]

I never said every year. I think it's quite clear that people had high expectations for this team coming into the 2011 season and that most thought they were the favorites to win the division.

 

Again, the GM doesn't go out there and pitch or hit. How is KW at fault for the struggles of Adam Dunn? Gordon Beckham?

 

What's Gordon Beckham ever done other than hit well for part of the 2009 season? Being a high draft pick doesn't mean you're worthy of trust as a key bat.

 

[Dick Allen]

I never said every year. I think it's quite clear that people had high expectations for this team coming into the 2011 season and that most thought they were the favorites to win the division.

 

Again, the GM doesn't go out there and pitch or hit. How is KW at fault for the struggles of Adam Dunn? Gordon Beckham?

He signed them, he's ultimately responsible. Its about what you do now and in the future, not what you did in the past.

[SoxFan1]

Dunn is clearly not KWs fault. But Peavy is. Rios is. Pierre is. Not having any suitable replacements in the minors except Viciedo. Having to rely on big-money acquisitions because we don't have any cheap, young and good talent in our system. That's all on KW.

Dunn is the #1 reason for the White Sox struggles right now. You're getting absolutely nothing out of your cleanup hitter. A guy who was supposed to be your biggest run producer.

 

Why is it ok to blame KW for the struggles of Peavy or Rios or Dunn but I never hear praise for being ballsy and re-signing Konerko or giving Humber a shot or for assembling a wonderful bullpen.

[whitesoxfan101]

Dunn is clearly not KWs fault. But Peavy is. Rios is. Pierre is. Not having any suitable replacements in the minors except Viciedo. Having to rely on big-money acquisitions because we don't have any cheap, young and good talent in our system. That's all on KW.

 

This is a key point. Unlike other organizations, we don't have a plan B because we don't have a minor league system because we can't draft. It's the biggest failing of KW.

[SoxFan1]

He signed them, he's ultimately responsible. Its about what you do now and in the future, not what you did in the past.

WTF

[Jordan4life_2007]

It's rare to see a trade proposal (a legitimate one) that really makes no sense for both sides. If AA were our GM and KW were the Toronto GM, I might believe this. AA has done a tremendous job in a really short amount of time of maximizing their top trade chips, shedding sunk costs and building up what many believe is the second best farm after Tampa. I don't believe he would do something stupid like this.

Edited July 27, 2011 by Jordan4life

[SoxFan1]

What's Gordon Beckham ever done other than hit well for part of the 2009 season? Being a high draft pick doesn't mean you're worthy of trust as a key bat.

Part of that 2009 season was 100 games of kickassness. You are being Mr. Hindsight right now.

[maggsmaggs]

Dunn is the #1 reason for the White Sox struggles right now. You're getting absolutely nothing out of your cleanup hitter. A guy who was supposed to be your biggest run producer.

 

Why is it ok to blame KW for the struggles of Peavy or Rios or Dunn but I never hear praise for being ballsy and re-signing Konerko or giving Humber a shot or for assembling a wonderful bullpen.

Well naturally people are gonna criticize rather than commend. I will admit that KW did do a great job with what you mentioned. However, I believe Humber was a Coop recommendation (somebody verify or correct). The pen was no doubt a great job, but previous years, he had horrible pens. Bullpens are one of those dynamic baseball things that just inexplicably fluctuate, almost as it's a luck thing if it works out.

 

But I think for the last five years, KW's failures have far outweighed successes.

[fathom]

At what time does this trade break tomorrow? I'm guessing 10:43 AM.

[maggsmaggs]

It's rare to see a trade proposal (a legitimate one) that really makes no sense for both sides. If AA were our GM and KW were the Toronto GM, I might believe this. AA has done a tremendous job in a really short amount of time of maximizing their top trade chips, shedding sunk costs and building up what many believe is the second best farm after Tampa.

I believe the Jays are baseball's best drafting team for like the last decade or two (in terms of major leaguers produced). The GM changes, but they have a core group of scouts that doesn't who ultimately recommend the players that end up being successful.

[whitesoxfan101]

Part of that 2009 season was 100 games of kickassness. You are being Mr. Hindsight right now.

 

He was 50 games of great (July and September) and 54 of low 700's OPS (June and August) that year. Then, he hit like crap last year. I'm not sure how anybody not trusting his bat going into this year is hindsight with how he hit last year in particular.

[maggsmaggs]

At what time does this trade break tomorrow? I'm guessing 10:43 AM.

How did you come up with that? That's so arbitrary.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I believe the Jays are baseball's best drafting team for like the last decade or two (in terms of major leaguers produced). The GM changes, but they have a core group of scouts that doesn't who ultimately recommend the players that end up being successful.

 

Which is why I don't believe this for a second. I could see KW doing something stupid like this. As all he's done for 4 years now is turn us into the AL version of the Cubs/Astros. The Blue Jays farm is so stacked that they could produce guys that could probably equal or exceed whatever Jackson could give them for 10 cents on the dollar. Teahen? lol. Not happening.

[Leonard Zelig]

In this preseason poll, in which 65 soxtalkers voted, only 3 people thought the Sox would win less less than 88 games. Over 75% thought the team would win more than 90 games.

80% thought they would win the division and only 1 thought they would finish lower than second place.

 

I know every poster did not vote, but it seems the consensus of soxtalk was that KW put a quality team together.

[103 mph screwball]

What will happen to the Teahen money? Who is the prospect? Who else does KW have in mind? There are too many questions to be answered before I judge. Pods for Lee was stupid lopsided until the cash was considered. That money paid for Iguchi and AJ. A lot of people (including me) flipped out over the Garcia for Floyd deal. How the hell could we even think of trading Brandon McCarthy! I will wait and see. KW still has my confidence.