Hyperpartisanship is threatening to destroy our country

[Jack Parkman]

I am sick of Congress whining, pouting, playing hardball, getting in the staring contests saying "I won't blink before you" Nothing is getting done. Our country has many problems for its citizens but the politicians only care about their party's or their own agenda. Why not do something that, you know, helps those who elected you?

 

Example: DEMS: here is a bill GOP: that bill is 100% Left, so here here's something that is 100% Right, Pass this. DEMS: Why do I have to cave into your demands and ignore the people who follow my political beliefs in this country? GOP: Why do I have to cave in to your demands and ignore my people? Either cave or nothing gets done. DEMS: No, you Cave or nothing gets done. GOP: You won't compromise because you won't pass a bill that goes against everything you believe in. DEMS: No, you won't compromise because you won't vote for my bill, which goes against everything you believe in. GOP: I won't cave DEMS: Neither will I GOP: f*** you! DEMS: f*** you! Both parties at dinner in the evening: (/laughing) f*** the people, they don't know any better. They'll still vote for us. (/laughing)

 

I am not attacking a particular party. I am attacking all politicians. Their job is to represent the people and keep them happy, so they can, you know, stay in office. But they stay in office while f***ing over the people they are supposed to represent. Something has to change. The problem, however, is that the solution to all of these problems might not lie in the center of the political spectrum. Some may be on the left, some on the right and some in the center. They need to find a way to work together so we can get out of this economic mess, and get the country back on the right track. I am afraid that this stalling, posturing, and hard headed behavior out of our politicians would delay the recovery even further or pull us deeper into this recession. Our government must act now(but not stupidly), and they need to get together and get something constructive done.

Edited July 27, 2011 by Elgin Slim

[Quin]

I am sick of Congress whining, pouting, playing hardball, getting in the staring contests saying "I won't blink before you" Nothing is getting done. Our country has many problems for its citizens but the politicians only care about their party's or their own agenda. Why not do something that, you know, helps those who elected you?

 

Example: DEMS: here is a bill GOP: that bill is 100% Left, so here here's something that is 100% Right, Pass this. DEMS: Why do I have to cave into your demands and ignore the people who follow my political beliefs in this country? GOP: Why do I have to cave in to your demands and ignore my people? Either cave or nothing gets done. DEMS: No, you Cave or nothing gets done. GOP: You won't compromise because you won't pass a bill that goes against everything you believe in. DEMS: No, you won't compromise because you won't vote for my bill, which goes against everything you believe in. GOP: I won't cave DEMS: Neither will I GOP: f*** you! DEMS: f*** you! Both parties at dinner in the evening: (/laughing) f*** the people, they don't know any better. They'll still vote for us. (/laughing)

 

I am not attacking a particular party. I am attacking all politicians. Their job is to represent the people and keep them happy, so they can, you know, stay in office. But they stay in office while f***ing over the people they are supposed to represent. Something has to change. The problem, however, is that the solution to all of these problems might not lie in the center of the political spectrum. Some may be on the left, some on the right and some in the center. They need to find a way to work together so we can get out of this economic mess, and get the country back on the right track. I am afraid that this stalling, posturing, and hard headed behavior out of our politicians would delay the recovery even further or pull us deeper into this recession. Our government must act now(but not stupidly), and they need to get together and get something constructive done.

 

BUT SOMEONE HAS TO BE RIGHT.

 

[bmags]

Eh. Whatever. Your characterization of what's happening isn't true. And the real problem is the structure of our government. It wasn't built to be able to handle disciplined partisanship like the current atmosphere is. It was fine when political parties weren't as ideologically defining, people LOVED when southern conservative democrats were democrats because of jim crow, and it made compromises so possible. But the senate and house have written up so many rules it makes it too difficult to get anything to pass. The Senate is a check on the house, and vice-versa, that should be enough, it also has a president to check them AND a supreme court. BUt apparently we also need a super majority to pass legislature in the senate, etc. etc.

 

If we make it so the voters vote a party into power, that party rules to their ideological vision, they succeed/fail, new party comes in, passes their new vision and cuts old party ideas except for ones the voters like, rinse repeat. People are putting too much emphasis on the personalities of congress and not enough on the structure.

[Jack Parkman]

Eh. Whatever. Your characterization of what's happening isn't true. And the real problem is the structure of our government. It wasn't built to be able to handle disciplined partisanship like the current atmosphere is. It was fine when political parties weren't as ideologically defining, people LOVED when southern conservative democrats were democrats because of jim crow, and it made compromises so possible. But the senate and house have written up so many rules it makes it too difficult to get anything to pass. The Senate is a check on the house, and vice-versa, that should be enough, it also has a president to check them AND a supreme court. BUt apparently we also need a super majority to pass legislature in the senate, etc. etc.

 

If we make it so the voters vote a party into power, that party rules to their ideological vision, they succeed/fail, new party comes in, passes their new vision and cuts old party ideas except for ones the voters like, rinse repeat. People are putting too much emphasis on the personalities of congress and not enough on the structure.

I know that the problem is the structure of our gov't. We shouldn't need a super majority to pass anything, but we do. I just gave an example of what it feels like when I read the paper/listen to the news about what is going on here. It is bulls***. It seems that the politicians don't care about the consequences of their inaction to its citizens, they just want to bicker with each other and name call. Also, super majorities are bad for the country, because that means that a congress can pass whatever laws they want without hearing the other side, and the other side could be valid and good for the country. What we really need is another couple major parties to compete with the Dems and GOP for votes. Then maybe if there is no super majority possible, then there will be compromise again.

[StrangeSox]

The Cult That Is Destroying America

 

Watching our system deal with the debt ceiling crisis — a wholly self-inflicted crisis, which may nonetheless have disastrous consequences — it’s increasingly obvious that what we’re looking at is the destructive influence of a cult that has really poisoned our political system.

 

And no, I don’t mean the fanaticism of the right. Well, OK, that too. But my feeling about those people is that they are what they are; you might as well denounce wolves for being carnivores. Crazy is what they do and what they are.

 

No, the cult that I see as reflecting a true moral failure is the cult of balance, of centrism.

 

Think about what’s happening right now. We have a crisis in which the right is making insane demands, while the president and Democrats in Congress are bending over backward to be accommodating — offering plans that are all spending cuts and no taxes, plans that are far to the right of public opinion.

 

So what do most news reports say? They portray it as a situation in which both sides are equally partisan, equally intransigent — because news reports always do that. And we have influential pundits calling out for a new centrist party, a new centrist president, to get us away from the evils of partisanship.

 

The reality, of course, is that we already have a centrist president — actually a moderate conservative president. Once again, health reform — his only major change to government — was modeled on Republican plans, indeed plans coming from the Heritage Foundation. And everything else — including the wrongheaded emphasis on austerity in the face of high unemployment — is according to the conservative playbook.

 

What all this means is that there is no penalty for extremism; no way for most voters, who get their information on the fly rather than doing careful study of the issues, to understand what’s really going on.

 

You have to ask, what would it take for these news organizations and pundits to actually break with the convention that both sides are equally at fault? This is the clearest, starkest situation one can imagine short of civil war. If this won’t do it, nothing will.

 

And yes, I think this is a moral issue. The “both sides are at fault” people have to know better; if they refuse to say it, it’s out of some combination of fear and ego, of being unwilling to sacrifice their treasured pose of being above the fray.

 

It’s a terrible thing to watch, and our nation will pay the price.

[bmags]

I know that the problem is the structure of our gov't. We shouldn't need a super majority to pass anything, but we do. I just gave an example of what it feels like when I read the paper/listen to the news about what is going on here. It is bulls***. It seems that the politicians don't care about the consequences of their inaction to its citizens, they just want to bicker with each other and name call. Also, super majorities are bad for the country, because that means that a congress can pass whatever laws they want without hearing the other side, and the other side could be valid and good for the country. What we really need is another couple major parties to compete with the Dems and GOP for votes. Then maybe if there is no super majority possible, then there will be compromise again.

 

there won't be compromise, there will just be a long-term give and take.

[EvilMonkey]

The Cult That Is Destroying America

Whoever wrote that is a complete moron. A centrist President? On what bizzaro planet? He wants to RAISE TAXES!!!! He has said as much repeatedly. And it is a lot easier for 6 Senators to change their mind and vote for the Republican bill than to have 50+ Reps change theirs. Until Reid finally got his mouth off Obama's ass, the Dems had not even OFFERED a plan. And the one they did has money not being spent as a cut? That's like saying 'but honey, yes I spent $200 million on these shoes, but they were on sale and I SAVED $400 million!'. Stop spending, period. You have a budget, make it work. You get no more.

[BigSqwert]

Whoever wrote that is a complete moron. A centrist President? On what bizzaro planet? He wants to RAISE TAXES!!!!

A majority of Americans polled want them raised. How is that not centrist?

[EvilMonkey]

A majority of Americans polled want them raised. How is that not centrist?

Show me the poll. If it was the one I saw, you could also say a majority of Americans want spending cut. I think it was 12% in favor of nothing but cuts, 10% in favor of nothing but tax increases and the rest ranging from small increases and massive cuts to large increase and minimal cuts. I certainly do not want mine raised. You don't have to cut them, but the government takes more than enough from me.

[StrangeSox]

Whoever wrote that is a complete moron. A centrist President? On what bizzaro planet? He wants to RAISE TAXES!!!!

 

And? "Centrist" doesn't mean "Grover Norquist"

[StrangeSox]

Show me the poll. If it was the one I saw, you could also say a majority of Americans want spending cut. I think it was 12% in favor of nothing but cuts, 10% in favor of nothing but tax increases and the rest ranging from small increases and massive cuts to large increase and minimal cuts. I certainly do not want mine raised. You don't have to cut them, but the government takes more than enough from me.

100-12 is 88% favoring some sort of revenue increases.

[Jack Parkman]

The Cult That Is Destroying America

 

 

Strange Sox: I'm trying to spark debate to get other people's view on this issue without divulging my political beliefs. I'm acting centrist, but I'm not really a centrist. I'm a political person, but I don't like to argue it because it is futile to argue with someone who is on the other side of the political spectrum than me. I'm not going to change their mind, and they are not going to change mine. What is the point. I have to be really comfortable with a person to discuss politics with them, an internet message board is not the place where I'd like to actually share them. There is one point in the article you posted that I agree with, is that there has to be a penalty for extremism in politics. However, it seems that extremism is what gets people elected.

 

A few things I will share: I think our political and economic system is broken, and we have to fix things. How the people can do that, I don't know. Serving in public office was meant to be a service to your country, not a career. We need to make it that way again. Then maybe politicians will work for their people rather than their own agenda, or taking bribes from large corporations to promote the corporation's agendas. (which I believe every politician does) It seems that the powers that be in this country whether political or corporate are greedy, and don't care about anyone but themselves. Why do corporations/companies like to f*** their employees to make more money for the CEO? Why do politicians(both sides) when they go to the capitol leave their people in the dust so they can stay in office? This country operates in a f*** your neighbor mentality rather than a help your neighbor mentality. That needs to change. I also believe that the problems that our country faces were caused by the f*** your neighbor mentality.

Edited July 27, 2011 by Elgin Slim

[EvilMonkey]

100-12 is 88% favoring some sort of revenue increases.

And the link is....................

[southsider2k5]

A majority of Americans polled want them raised. How is that not centrist?

 

Should we really go down the road of what a majority of Americans want?

[StrangeSox]

And the link is....................

I was going off of whatever unnamed poll you were referencing there.

[StrangeSox]

Should we really go down the road of what a majority of Americans want?

 

No, but you can't define centrist as ever-so-slightly-to-the-left-of-Tea-Party.

[bmags]

And the link is....................

 

He was doing the math on your anecdote.

[StrangeSox]

Strange Sox: I'm trying to spark debate to get other people's view on this issue without divulging my political beliefs. I'm acting centrist, but I'm not really a centrist. I'm a political person, but I don't like to argue it because it is futile to argue with someone who is on the other side of the political spectrum than me. I'm not going to change their mind, and they are not going to change mine. What is the point. I have to be really comfortable with a person to discuss politics with them, an internet message board is not the place where I'd like to actually share them. There is one point in the article you posted that I agree with, is that there has to be a penalty for extremism in politics. However, it seems that extremism is what gets people elected.

 

A few things I will share: I think our political and economic system is broken, and we have to fix things. How the people can do that, I don't know. Serving in public office was meant to be a service to your country, not a career. We need to make it that way again. Then maybe politicians will work for their people rather than their own agenda, or taking bribes from large corporations to promote the corporation's agendas. (which I believe every politician does) It seems that the powers that be in this country whether political or corporate are greedy, and don't care about anyone but themselves. Why do corporations/companies like to f*** their employees to make more money for the CEO? Why do politicians(both sides) when they go to the capitol leave their people in the dust so they can stay in office? This country operates in a f*** your neighbor mentality rather than a help your neighbor mentality. That needs to change. I also believe that the problems that our country faces were caused by the f*** your neighbor mentality.

 

I respect this post. I posted that article because it had nearly the same title as your thread and was on-topic, though obviously partisan itself.

 

One thing I don't necessarily agree with is discussing things with people on the other side of the spectrum. If you insulate yourself with like-minded people, you start to lose sight of what the rest of the country/world thinks. You see this particularly in the hyperpartisan blog world, and it cuts both ways. My political views have definitely been affected by the probably hundreds of internet conversations I've had on various topics in the last 10+ years, often with those who hold sharply different fundamental views from my own.

[Balta1701]

I will stop

I will stop at nothing

Say the right things

When electioneering

I trust I can rely on your vote

 

When I go forwards you go backwards and somewhere we will meet

 

Riot shields

Voodoo economics

It's just business

Cattle prods and the IMF

I trust I can rely on your vote

 

When I go forwards you go backwards and somewhere we will meet

[Rex Kickass]

Show me the poll. If it was the one I saw, you could also say a majority of Americans want spending cut. I think it was 12% in favor of nothing but cuts, 10% in favor of nothing but tax increases and the rest ranging from small increases and massive cuts to large increase and minimal cuts. I certainly do not want mine raised. You don't have to cut them, but the government takes more than enough from me.

 

http://beta.news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/p...-143421891.html

 

Seventy-two percent of respondents to a new Washington Post/ABC News poll said they'd support raising taxes on people who make $250,000 or more, while 27 percent said they'd oppose it.

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/st...ns-favor-both-/

 

A poll from Quinnipiac University conducted July 5-11, 2011, asked: "Do you think any agreement to raise the national debt ceiling should include only spending cuts, or should it also include an increase in taxes for the wealthy and corporations?"

 

In this case, 67 percent favored including tax increases, while 25 percent favored spending cuts only. Another 8 percent were unsure.

[EvilMonkey]

http://beta.news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/p...-143421891.html

 

 

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/st...ns-favor-both-/

So make cuts then, not accounting gimmicks. 92% want cuts. Oh, and you know that the tax increases will not be limited to those making over $250k. If you believe they would be the only ones required to sacrifice, I have a bridge to sell you.

[StrangeSox]

That still doesn't justify your "raise taxes=not centrist" objection.

[bmags]

I must have missed the part where the president is suggesting only raising revenue.

[Jack Parkman]

I respect this post. I posted that article because it had nearly the same title as your thread and was on-topic, though obviously partisan itself.

 

One thing I don't necessarily agree with is discussing things with people on the other side of the spectrum. If you insulate yourself with like-minded people, you start to lose sight of what the rest of the country/world thinks. You see this particularly in the hyperpartisan blog world, and it cuts both ways. My political views have definitely been affected by the probably hundreds of internet conversations I've had on various topics in the last 10+ years, often with those who hold sharply different fundamental views from my own.

I don't insulate myself with like minded people. In fact, the people I discuss politics the most with lie at the other end of the spectrum. The key words are discuss vs. argue. I prefer a healthy discussion rather than a pissing match. I like getting the opinions from the other side. But when people start badgering and aren't willing to discuss and would rather argue, I cut off the conversation.

Edited July 27, 2011 by Elgin Slim

[EvilMonkey]

That still doesn't justify your "raise taxes=not centrist" objection.

Sure it does, because most of those inthe raise it at all camp were in the little to 50-50 camp, and only if there are also real spending cuts to go along with it What the Dems currently have are not real spending cuts, they are merely promises not to spend more. Cuts to a proposed budget increase are not spending cuts, just a smaller increase. Troop reductions were happening regardless of this debt ceiling stuff. Any savings realized because of it can't be counted as a spending cut, because you weren't gonna spend it anyway.