cabiness42 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 8.6% since May 1, and he struggled for the first full month recovering from that broken thumb so it's not unreasonable to discount April. Keep going, I'm sure you can narrow it down to a three-game stretch that gets him over 10%. No matter what numbers you use, the point is that Quentin has some value that Viciedo doesn't have in his ability to draw BB/HBP. I'm not saying that you don't make a deal, and I'm not saying that that Viciedo won't eventually improve or that he doesn't still have value if he doesn't, but you add someone like Viciedo to a lineup that already has Pierzynski, Ramirez, and sometimes Morel, and you are letting pitchers get through the lineup on a minimal number of pitches, which has consequences. At some point, you need to replace Quentin with somebody who has the proven ability to get free bases. Dunn was supposed to be a step in the right direction, but you need the guy to actually get some hits along with all the walks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 12:04 PM) I wouldn't mind being the beneficiary of that type of behavior, one team driving up the price to hurt the ohter. And then let's not forget about the other team that is purportedly interested if, in fact, Carlos is made available - the Red Sox. They, too, can be rather influential in driving up the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Hypothetically, the Sox could have moved Jackson/Thornton/+ for Rasmus, then turned around and dealt Quentin for Dominic Brown? Umm, Brown/Rasmus/Viciedo in the outfield for a decade............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 01:07 PM) Hypothetically, the Sox could have moved Jackson/Thornton/+ for Rasmus, then turned around and dealt Quentin for Dominic Brown? Umm, Brown/Rasmus/Viciedo in the outfield for a decade............. Why must you do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishPrince34 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 12:23 PM) I would be so down for a Arodys Vizcaino for Quentin move. Don't want Adroys Vizcaino he's pitching with a partial tear in his elbow. He's a surgery waiting to happen. They say its just a matter of time before he needs Tommy John Surgery very similar to the Adam Wainwright who pitched with a partial tear all of last year before being shut down late August. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 01:08 PM) Why must you do that? Until Rasmus continues to struggle at the plate and his dad s***s on Ozzie in the media and all hell breaks loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan09 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Well, I've been saying this since the day we signed Dunn...this became a commitment for more than just this year...this became a commitment for 3-4 years. It's awfully hard to rebuild when you've got to commit $90 million in payroll while fielding a 70 win team, especially with this fan base. I think you almost have to stick with your plan and try to win in this window and pray that you can get something out of Dunn and Peavy. Baseball is a weird, weird game. If you can get yourself into the playoffs (or at least stay in the pennant race down the stretch), who knows, maybe Dunn will find his stroke again and turn red hot when we need him most. Stranger things have happened. Dang sure agree with that. Whoulda thunk he would be in such a funk after 100 games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 01:05 PM) The last time KW traded a player for prospects the year before he hit FA that I can remember (other than of course Edwin Jackson) was Freddy Garcia for Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez. How'd he do in that trade for Nick Swisher or Javy Vasquez? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman next few days will tell #chisox tale. could buy, sell or in between. $ concerns. #quentin, #danks, #floyd, #tradedeadline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I'm all for a quality starting pitcher, but who is leading off for this team next year? We're not actually penciling in De Aza for that, are we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (Special K @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 12:09 PM) How'd he do in that trade for Nick Swisher or Javy Vasquez? Very non comparable situations. Not that I have faith in Kenny to pull this off correctly but if he's trading Carlos, he better be getting a Kings Ransom back in return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (Special K @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 02:09 PM) How'd he do in that trade for Nick Swisher or Javy Vasquez? Neither one of those were guys other teams actually wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 01:07 PM) Umm, Brown/Rasmus/Viciedo in the outfield for a decade............. The odds of a team keeping the same 3 guys in the OF for an entire decade are remote. At some point one, or more, will be looking at an expensive contract if they're playing up to their potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 11:44 AM) Getting Brown + for Quentin is rape and pillage. Rape+Pillage+getting miles on your credit card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishPrince34 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 01:08 PM) Don't want Adroys Vizcaino he's pitching with a partial tear in his elbow. He's a surgery waiting to happen. They say its just a matter of time before he needs Tommy John Surgery very similar to the Adam Wainwright who pitched with a partial tear all of last year before being shut down late August. Injury information on Adroys Vizcaino before the season started. No dice-if you can get Brown, Kenny needs to pull the trigger http://www.talkingchop.com/2011/4/26/21345...ry-and-timidity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 06:18 PM) @Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal Source: Braves "hot" for Quentin - and #WhiteSox love ATL's young arms. One holdup...the condition of Viciedo's thumb at AAA. Would replace Quentin for #WhiteSox. Hasn't played since Saturday. A few weeks ago, people were talking about getting Brandon Beachy for Quentin from ATL. Now it seems like we'd get multiple pieces from their top 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 12:23 PM) If we got Domonic Brown I'd consider this season a win off the bat. Ozzie would also love him. I'd delete my sig immediately. All thought I think it means what you think it means.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan09 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman next few days will tell #chisox tale. could buy, sell or in between. $ concerns. #quentin, #danks, #floyd, #tradedeadline Kenny did mention in his chat yesterday that other GM's were certainly asking about certain players and quite often IIRC. So maybe this is not so far fetched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Viciedo's injury should absolutely NOT hold us back from trading CQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 01:10 PM) Neither one of those were guys other teams actually wanted. However the scenario you want to put it, whether it's a guy in a year before he hits FA, or a player a team wants, I don't have a lot of faith in KWs judgement right now. His track record is not as good as it used to be. If we get something solid in return and marginally miss Q's bat for the next year and a half, then that's fine, but I think dealing Q we're heading away from the direction of competing for a division, which is the whole point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 12:50 PM) I never thought that after 2008, Quentin would actually be UNDERRATED by Soxtalk. I think Dayan will give us at best what Carlos has given us this year. But for those pieces and for the financial situation we are in, I like the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 01:08 PM) Don't want Adroys Vizcaino he's pitching with a partial tear in his elbow. He's a surgery waiting to happen. They say its just a matter of time before he needs Tommy John Surgery very similar to the Adam Wainwright who pitched with a partial tear all of last year before being shut down late August. If that's the case, then you're right. I wouldn't want him. I was just looking at his numbers/age, and they are terrific. Didn't look into his injury potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (Special K @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 07:15 PM) However the scenario you want to put it, whether it's a guy in a year before he hits FA, or a player a team wants, I don't have a lot of faith in KWs judgement right now. His track record is not as good as it used to be. If we get something solid in return and marginally miss Q's bat for the next year and a half, then that's fine, but I think dealing Q we're heading away from the direction of competing for a division, which is the whole point. Far more people than KW are involved evaluating the potential deals for Q or more, as the sox have been scouting these teams for a while now. As far as getting away from competing for the AL Central title, the sox can't get much worse. Getting younger, solid if not top prospects, can only help add to the mix. Carlos is likely gone after 2012 anyway. If trading him can add 2, 3 stellar pieces to the long term success of the sox, it'd be worth it in IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (beck72 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 01:13 PM) A few weeks ago, people were talking about getting Brandon Beachy for Quentin from ATL. Now it seems like we'd get multiple pieces from their top 10. I trade CQ for some good young arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirdog Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Why try to eke out the central division this year when instead you could dominate it for the next decade....make the deal if proposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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