The Physics of Dunn's Swing

[Lillian]

The physics of the swing are that the longer the arc of the swing, the longer it takes the bat to travel to and through the hitting zone.

The length of the arc is determined in part by the length of the batter’s arms and the length of his bat. The longer his arms and his bat, the longer the arc.

A tall player, with long arms, can reduce the length of the arc by choking up.

Choking up also provides that added advantage of increasing the hitter’s control of the bat.

 

A big strong guy like Dunn could choke up, reduce the length of the arc, increase his bat control, and still hit the ball a very long way.

 

The greater number of times that a guy that big and strong can make contact, the greater the number of times a ball has a chance to leave the park.

 

Why is this not obvious to baseball people?

 

He should choke up, and then emulate Konerko’s short and quick swing.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Lillian

[Middle Buffalo]

The physics of the swing are that the longer the arc of the swing, the longer it takes the bat to travel to and through the hitting zone.

The length of the arc is determined in part by the length of the batter’s arms and the length of his bat. The longer his arms and his bat, the longer the arc.

A tall player, with long arms, can reduce the length of the arc by choking up.

Choking up also provides that added advantage of increasing the hitter’s control of the bat.

 

A big strong guy like Dunn could choke up, reduce the length of the arc, increase his bat control, and still hit the ball a very long way.

 

The greater number of times that a guy that big and strong can make contact, the greater the number of times a ball has a chance to leave the park.

 

Why is this not obvious to baseball people?

 

He should choke up, and then emulate Konerko’s short and quick swing.

I've never seen a guy look at more 3rd strikes than Adam Dunn. It's one thing to strike out 3 times per game, but to strike out looking as often as he does is awful.

 

He should not bat again this season against a left handed starter, and it probably wouldn't hurt either guy if Ozzie put Dunn in right field and moved Quentin to DH until (if ever) Dunn starts hitting. Every game this year feels like the Ozzie's "Sunday line-up." Dunn & Rios = Kotsay & Mackowiak.

[caulfield12]

The physics of the swing are that the longer the arc of the swing, the longer it takes the bat to travel to and through the hitting zone.

The length of the arc is determined in part by the length of the batter’s arms and the length of his bat. The longer his arms and his bat, the longer the arc.

A tall player, with long arms, can reduce the length of the arc by choking up.

Choking up also provides that added advantage of increasing the hitter’s control of the bat.

 

A big strong guy like Dunn could choke up, reduce the length of the arc, increase his bat control, and still hit the ball a very long way.

 

The greater number of times that a guy that big and strong can make contact, the greater the number of times a ball has a chance to leave the park.

 

Why is this not obvious to baseball people?

 

He should choke up, and then emulate Konerko’s short and quick swing.

 

 

If it were that easy, they could fix Gordon and Rios, too.

 

75% of it is confidence...his long swing and "slider speed bat" has always been there. Power hitters will never be comfortable choking up on the bat. Even singles hitters rarely choke up these days.

 

And there's a larger issue. He's so far off the plate, he needs that bat length to reach the outer half. Now whether he should be so far off the plate...that's another issue altogether, but he obviously feels comfortable there compared to crowding the plate like Quentin does.

 

 

[Lillian]

If it were that easy, they could fix Gordon and Rios, too.

 

75% of it is confidence...his long swing and "slider speed bat" has always been there. Power hitters will never be comfortable choking up on the bat. Even singles hitters rarely choke up these days.

 

And there's a larger issue. He's so far off the plate, he needs that bat length to reach the outer half. Now whether he should be so far off the plate...that's another issue altogether, but he obviously feels comfortable there compared to crowding the plate like Quentin does.

 

I didn't say that "it was easy". I said; "it's obvious".

The fact that players aren't "comfortable" doesn't invalidate the point.

If you disagree, please explain where you think this analysis is wrong.

[Lillian]

Barry Bonds choked up, and it didn't seem to stop him from hitting homers at a prodigious rate.

 

Yes, Dunn has always used a long bat and held it at the knob. He has also always struck out at an extraordinarily high rate.

My point is that big guys like him should want to make more contact, as their natural size and strength will result in lots of homers, if they can just connect with the ball.

The ball can't leave the yard, if the hitter can't put the bat on it!!!!!!!!!

 

If a little guy like Pedroia can hit the ball out, it hardly seems necessary for a guy Dunn's size to have such a long swing.

Pedroia's success is in part attributable to the same principle. He is very short, and the arc of his swing is therefore correspondingly short.

He can wait longer to recognize the pitch before commiting, because the arc of his swing is short.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Lillian

[GREEDY]

I've never seen a guy look at more 3rd strikes than Adam Dunn. It's one thing to strike out 3 times per game, but to strike out looking as often as he does is awful.

 

 

A strikeout is a strikeout.

 

It is ignorant, hillbilly logic to prefer that a player "go down swingin' ".

 

That same idiotic logic helped run Nick Swisher out of town.

[Balta1701]

Barry Bonds choked up, and it didn't seem to stop him from hitting homers at a prodigious rate.

Barry Bonds also was composed more of tetrahydrogestrinone than man.

[Middle Buffalo]

A strikeout is a strikeout.

 

It is ignorant, hillbilly logic to prefer that a player "go down swingin' ".

 

That same idiotic logic helped run Nick Swisher out of town.

So your preference would be that a player not swing at strikes. That makes sense.

[Lillian]

Barry Bonds also was composed more of tetrahydrogestrinone than man.

 

Is that really relevant in this discussion?

I would contend that if Bonds had approached hitting in the same manner as Dunn, with a long swing, and long arc, that it would have produced a similarly ineffective result.

 

Big strong guys can generate enough power. PEDS are not necessary to generate bat speed for a strong guy like Dunn.

Wouldn't he benefit by being shorter and quicker with his swing? That is the question.

If the answer is yes, then it follows that two of the ways to get shorter and quicker are to choke up and simultaneously reduce the length of the swing.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Lillian

[Balta1701]

Is that really relevant in this discussion?

If the PED's helped Bonds maintain bat speed, generate power, and improved vision/reaction time as he aged (and they did), then yes, they're very relevant in the discussion, because those are possible issues that Dunn may be dealing with.

[Lillian]

If the PED's helped Bonds maintain bat speed, generate power, and improved vision/reaction time as he aged (and they did), then yes, they're very relevant in the discussion, because those are possible issues that Dunn may be dealing with.

 

Yes, I agree. However, I maintain that if Bonds had also employed a long swing, that the result would not have been as positive.

Moreover, Dunn is taller than Bonds, and therefore his swing is inherently longer, to begin with.

 

Look fellas, I'm just seeking clarity here.

1) Is a shorter swing more effective or not? I believe that it is generally accepted that a shorter and quicker swing results in more contact.

2) Isn't the length of the swing determined in part by the length of the swing's arc? That is also not in dispute, as far as I know.

3) Does choking up on the bat also afford a hitter better bat control, resulting in more contact?

4) Shouldn't contact be the most important objective for a guy with issues regarding being able to put the bat on the ball?

 

If the answer to these questions is yes, then I don't see how Dunn wouldn't benefit from such a change in his approach to hitting.

One thing is certain. What he has been doing is not working well.

[Balta1701]

The big problem with this line of thinking is that it's not what Adam Dunn has been successful doing. He has hit the 2nd most HR in the big leagues in the last decade by always swinging for the fence. He put up 900 OPS numbers by taking pitches and swinging for the fence. It's always worked for him before.

 

Would you be happier with Adam Dunn if he hit 10 HR a year but was hitting .275 or if he hit .230 a year with 35 HR?

 

Yes, he's not doign either of those right now, but at least in terms of Dunn's thinking, that's probably the choice.

[bigruss]

This is where having had played baseball for a long time really helps out in the understanding of why it's not so easy to just change (and not saying anyone here has played less or anything like that).

 

Choking up on a bat can be greatly uncomfortable for a batter and can mess a swing up even more as they are more concerned throughout the swing on their mechanics and distracted from just making contact with the ball. Now, this could potentially help break a bad routine, but it's doubtful. Im sure they've tried it in the batting cages, or similar "small" fixes, but it is up to the batter to be able to translate those fixes to the plate. This is where the hitting coach has their biggest struggle, how do they coach the player to the point where they can fix any mechanical issues without giving them so much advice that all the player is thinking about is their swing. You want the batter to be focused on just hitting the ball, the more concentrated (and loose, as weird as that may sound) on just hitting the ball the better they will play.

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

We should trade him for David Eckstein. He has short arms, chokes up, and has a really short swing.

[Balta1701]

We should trade him for David Eckstein. He has short arms, chokes up, and has a really short swing.

I think most Sox fans would make this deal.

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

I think most Sox fans would make this deal.

 

Don't tell KennyGM. He'll trade Viciedo+Reed for him even though he's a free agent sitting at home (on a probably really small couch).

[southsider2k5]

A strikeout is a strikeout.

 

It is ignorant, hillbilly logic to prefer that a player "go down swingin' ".

 

That same idiotic logic helped run Nick Swisher out of town.

 

 

Why is that even needed?

[Lillian]

All of your thoughtful comments are appreciated.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not suggesting that Dunn become a slap hitter. My point is that he is big enough and strong enough to hit home runs even if he were to cut down on the length of his swing.

 

The reference to smaller players is simply to point out the fact that a short guy, with short arms, has an inherently shorter arc to his swing, and thus will be quicker owing to the shorter distance his bat travels through the arc of the swing. Given the same bat speed, his swing is quicker because the arc is shorter.

 

I suppose that Dunn's homers wouldn't go quite as far with that approach, but they don't give extra points for distance, do they?

Dunn has the power to cause what would be another player's fly out, to go over the fence. His first priority should be to do everything he can to make contact.

The homers would come. Look at Konerko. He's not a huge man, but he is short and quick, and the results are very productive.

 

It just seems foolish, and counter productive for a big man to take a big long swing. It isn't necessary, and it doesn't produce a better result, save the occasional tape measure home run.

[Iwritecode]

A strikeout is a strikeout.

 

It is ignorant, hillbilly logic to prefer that a player "go down swingin' ".

 

That same idiotic logic helped run Nick Swisher out of town.

 

I'm pretty sure the chances of hitting the ball go way up when you swing at strike three rather than watching it go by.

 

In fact, I'm guessing no player in the history of baseball has ever gotten on base by watching strike 3 go by without swinging at it.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Iwritecode

[Balta1701]

In fact, I'm guessing no player in the history of baseball has ever gotten on base by watching strike 3 go by without swinging at it.

I'd bet this is wrong. Just has to bounce off the catcher's glove.

[GREEDY]

In fact, I'm guessing no player in the history of baseball has ever gotten on base by watching strike 3 go by without swinging at it.

 

Not that I want to discuss this aspect of the game but you are very incorrect. Does anyone here actually watch baseball or do you just b**** about it on the internet?

[GREEDY]

Why is that even needed?

 

It wasn't, I just get very upset that most fans of this team can't seem to understand that it is a very viable strategy to not always be in "protect mode" every time you get two strikes... especially players with approaches like Dunn/Swisher/anyone who walks more than 75 times per year.

[JohnCangelosi]

Who was the soxtalk poster who predicted that the Adam Dunn signing would be the worst move KW has ever made? And he made it clear on this board in April and I think most people thought he was nuts.

 

How true this is playing out right now. He's seemed to completely lose it and God only knows if he'll get it back. He's not getting any younger. And regarding his swing, he's always had a long swing, a lot of K's and a lot of HR's. His problem this year seems WAY beyond his swing to me, although I know it's not getting any quicker as he gets older, but remember he's only 31

 

[southsider2k5]

Who was the soxtalk poster who predicted that the Adam Dunn signing would be the worst move KW has ever made? And he made it clear on this board in April and I think most people thought he was nuts.

 

How true this is playing out right now. He's seemed to completely lose it and God only knows if he'll get it back. He's not getting any younger. And regarding his swing, he's always had a long swing, a lot of K's and a lot of HR's. His problem this year seems WAY beyond his swing to me, although I know it's not getting any quicker as he gets older, but remember he's only 31

 

He has been back plenty to brag. I don't know how you missed it honestly.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

So your preference would be that a player not swing at strikes. That makes sense.

LOL, so true.

 

And Nick Swisher ran himself out of town by being a little scaredy cat girly man who was more concerned about the length of his hair than hitting the baseball. His "aww, shucks!" smile and shrug routine that seemed to follow every called third strike with RISP didn't help either.