The Physics of Dunn's Swing

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

It wasn't, I just get very upset that most fans of this team can't seem to understand that it is a very viable strategy to not always be in "protect mode" every time you get two strikes... especially players with approaches like Dunn/Swisher/anyone who walks more than 75 times per year.

I'm not following.

 

Not swinging at a ball in the zone with 2 strikes like Dunn and Swisher do regularly... isn't that *NOT* being in protect mode already? What are you arguing for? Clearly that mindset hasn't served either of those guys well while wearing a Sox uniform.

 

Dunn's issues seem to be entirely mental. Maybe he should stop counting the sheep above his head and look at the pitcher instead.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Don't tell KennyGM. He'll trade Viciedo+Reed for him even though he's a free agent sitting at home (on a probably really small couch).

And then he'll pick up another Thornton, Santos, Uribe, Humber, Loaiza, etc. off the scrap heap for nothing to completely negate those moves and then some.

 

Keep in mind that idiot Kenny Williams is also the one who drafted both Gio Gonzalez and Dan Hudson after every other team in baseball had at least 1, if not 4-5 chances, at both players. Clearly Kenny misses his evaluations all the time, much to the chagrin of the Soxtalk crew who always know the right move to make well in advance.

 

Teahen & Pierre were stupid. So was Wise, Owens, and Erstad. Not bringing back Thome last year was the worst, most indefensible move Kenny has made in his career. But the vast majority of his other moves that have backfired were nothing more than calculated risks. And they're called risks for a reason. Sox fans who want to watch a GM who doesn't take big risks might as well drop their Sox caps off at the door and go watch the Royals lose for another 10+ years.

[caulfield12]

You'd have to say Jose Contreras was the biggest "off the scrap heap" move that KW ever made.

 

And B. McCarthy wasn't a high draft pick, and he netted us Danks...who will be getting a payday contract from SOMEONE (not us) for close to $100 million.

 

Quentin, too. Alexei. Pods and Iguchi. AJ. Dye. Many, many examples.

 

 

But these last three years have almost worn out the patience of most Sox fans. There are fewer and fewer willing to defend either him or Ozzie these days.

Especially with Rios/Dunn/Peavy rearing their ugly heads on a nightly basis.

Edited August 1, 2011 by caulfield12

[bighurt574]

The physics of the swing are that the longer the arc of the swing, the longer it takes the bat to travel to and through the hitting zone.

The length of the arc is determined in part by the length of the batter’s arms and the length of his bat. The longer his arms and his bat, the longer the arc.

A tall player, with long arms, can reduce the length of the arc by choking up.

Choking up also provides that added advantage of increasing the hitter’s control of the bat.

 

A big strong guy like Dunn could choke up, reduce the length of the arc, increase his bat control, and still hit the ball a very long way.

 

The greater number of times that a guy that big and strong can make contact, the greater the number of times a ball has a chance to leave the park.

 

Why is this not obvious to baseball people?

 

He should choke up, and then emulate Konerko’s short and quick swing.

 

I assume he's been swinging more or less the same his entire career, which has gone reasonably well up until this year. That leads me to believe the length of his swing isn't the problem.

[soxfan-kwman]

If it were that easy, they could fix Gordon and Rios, too.

 

75% of it is confidence...his long swing and "slider speed bat" has always been there. Power hitters will never be comfortable choking up on the bat. Even singles hitters rarely choke up these days.

 

And there's a larger issue. He's so far off the plate, he needs that bat length to reach the outer half. Now whether he should be so far off the plate...that's another issue altogether, but he obviously feels comfortable there compared to crowding the plate like Quentin does.

 

 

He doesn't need that big of a bat. He can hit the outside pitches with a shorter bat. The problem is that he appears to only like outside pitches, but he tries to pull all of them. Because of this he can't hit inside or center pitches very well and seems to swing around them. Rios-same thing, can't hit inside pitches. The loop of both of these guy's swings goes around inside pitches.

 

My advice for both guys, lose the softball swings. Dunn should close up his stance and Rios should open his stance. Both guys should choke up. At this point, both guys could hit more pitches right down the middle of the plate & help hit some inside pitches too. That and somebody should tell Dunn to aim at hitting balls over the fence, not over the concourse!!

Edited August 1, 2011 by soxfan-kwman

[caulfield12]

Well, since Rios is stepping into the bucket and/or pulling his head off nearly every pitch, opening his stance couldn't make things any worse.

Or could it?

 

But he won't give up that stupid Bagwell/Canseco/mini-CQ crouch that's killing all his power. That and the hand position.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

You'd have to say Jose Contreras was the biggest "off the scrap heap" move that KW ever made.

 

And B. McCarthy wasn't a high draft pick, and he netted us Danks...who will be getting a payday contract from SOMEONE (not us) for close to $100 million.

 

Quentin, too. Alexei. Pods and Iguchi. AJ. Dye. Many, many examples.

 

 

But these last three years have almost worn out the patience of most Sox fans. There are fewer and fewer willing to defend either him or Ozzie these days.

Especially with Rios/Dunn/Peavy rearing their ugly heads on a nightly basis.

Rios was a great move on paper at the time. Kenny looked like a GENIUS this time last year. We could have traded Alex for multiple prospects and full salary relief this time last year.

 

Peavy, another great move on paper for which Kenny was publicly lauded. He gave up basically a #4/5 starter in the AL and a bunch of nothing. Even at the time that looked like a steal for the Sox.

 

Dunn was one of the best players on the FA market and we had to compete for his services. Another good move on paper at the time.

 

Those 3 contracts, plus Buehrle's extension, plus the 4-year deal to Paulie after '05 of which he only earned his money for half of the deal, IIRC have been the greatest financial obligations Kenny has made in his 10+ year career as a GM. How often to 3 of those 5 backfire like this in a 1.5 year timeframe? Also, we have Dunn and Rios here for a few more years, and Peavy for next year. All three players are capable of making their situations look a whole lot better via vastly improved play, and all three have the ability to improve their play vastly.

 

My point here is that calling for Kenny's head here for making 3 good on-paper moves that have turned out bad is irrational. WTF do people want? Kenny is a ninja, but he's no psychic ninja. He can observe a player's talent and look at what he has done in the past, and then go from there. Fans always want high payrolls and fans always want to get something for nothing, and now here are 3 cases of using a high payroll to get something for nothing and everyone's all pissy about it. This hate isn't the result of people thinking like intelligent baseball fans. It is the result of a a few players playing well below their career norms on a team full of losers with no direction. Blame the players, blame the team, maybe blame yourselves for demanding a higher standard of player and a higher payroll, because these things can happen when you go after pricey players with money to spend. If you're going to blame Kenny for anything you can blame him for taking big risks, nothing else, because the talent is there with all of these guys. But then if you're going to blame Kenny for taking big risks then you need to ask yourself why you as a fan get so emotional when Kenny doesn't trade the farm for Colby Rasmus the underperforming dickhead or sign whoever on the free agent market.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

[caulfield12]

I'll agree 100% about Dunn and Peavy.

 

With Rios, they just didn't do their homework. KW prides himself on doing his "due diligence" and talking to people all around baseball about a guy before an acquisition....as well as the key members of his own team.

 

Physically, he's one of the most POTENTIALLY talented players in baseball. And GM's/Scouts fall in love with these guys and never give up on the idea of acquiring them or being the guy who finally turns their career around.

 

It's just not about talent with a baseball team. We've always been more talented than the Twins until the last season. It's just that you can't keep turning around 6-7-8-9 players from the roster every single season unless you're willing to oscillate up and down like the stock market. KW tinkers way too much...for most of the last 3 seasons, this team and organization has had ZERO identity. Who are they? I think that's one of the 20 or so reasons fans just can't quite get behind this team.

 

And KW's secondary moves.....Pierre, Teahen, Linebrink, Manny Ramirez...almost all of them have been colossal busts recently.

 

But if you didn't have Gio Gonzalez and Hudson pitching well for other teams and Beckham flailing away for two consecutive seasons when we were promised and hyped Pedroia/Utley-esque numbers, there wouldn't be a problem for so many with KW.

 

And then there's been the failure to even countenance a change in the hitting coach or just shaking up the coaching staff in general. I guess we fired Tim Raines, yay! That had a big impact, clearly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LVSoxFan]

Good post. You're right: this team has no identity. It's like two recognizable guys and surrounded by a bunch of people nobody would notice if they were gone tomorrow + a really good pitching staff.

 

We do have recurring themes though, the past few years:

 

-The underachieving rookie would-be phenom

-The guy at 3B who Doesn't Make You Forget Crede

-The noodle-armed LF with questionable fielding skills

-A TOTAL inability to score with RISP

 

This year we have a new twist in that instead of having Thome who can hit homers and not much else we have an even more expensive version who just can't hit, period.

 

Depressing.

[kitekrazy]

Rios was a great move on paper at the time.

 

It really wasn't. It only looked good on paper because the team was in a desperate need of a CF.

[kitekrazy]

My point here is that calling for Kenny's head here for making 3 good on-paper moves that have turned out bad is irrational.

 

 

It's far more than that. Sometimes those are escalated by a bad farm system. Look at many of the farm system failures. The at one time highly regarded prospects are such failures that they are practically out of organized baseball. That responsibility falls under the GM because they are in charge of scouting and development.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I'll agree 100% about Dunn and Peavy.

 

With Rios, they just didn't do their homework. KW prides himself on doing his "due diligence" and talking to people all around baseball about a guy before an acquisition....as well as the key members of his own team.

 

Physically, he's one of the most POTENTIALLY talented players in baseball. And GM's/Scouts fall in love with these guys and never give up on the idea of acquiring them or being the guy who finally turns their career around.

 

Who would Kenny have talked to? The manager that wanted to fight his own players? The coaching staff, who must have at least been part of the problem if the manager was that bad? The players on a losing team, who probably aren't the best people to be talking to in the middle of bad season? Frank Thomas?

 

And even so, you can talk all you want. You're bound to hear "so-and-so is a hard worker/great clubhouse guy/etc, etc." and none of that matters until you've got him in uniform and you can see for yourself. Talent is all you can go by save for some of the Elijah Dukes-variety red flags which can't be spun into positives no matter how hard you try.

 

It's just not about talent with a baseball team. We've always been more talented than the Twins until the last season. It's just that you can't keep turning around 6-7-8-9 players from the roster every single season unless you're willing to oscillate up and down like the stock market. KW tinkers way too much...for most of the last 3 seasons, this team and organization has had ZERO identity. Who are they? I think that's one of the 20 or so reasons fans just can't quite get behind this team.

 

It's impossible to have small turnover in MLB. The Red Sox have a ton of new players, as do the Indians, Tigers, Yankees, Rays, the list just goes on. We've probably had less turnover than those guys have the last couple years and they're still better than us.

 

As far as no identity, we've got MB, Paulie, AJ... and that's pretty much our identity around the league, plus JR, Ozzie, and Kenny. Oh, and the fact that we fold up the tent whenever the Twins come to town. That's also part of our identity, which Kenny has tried to change BTW by bringing in more talent. Funny how Thome was part of the problem until he went to the Twins, where he became part of the solution.

 

And KW's secondary moves.....Pierre, Teahen, Linebrink, Manny Ramirez...almost all of them have been colossal busts recently.

 

Manny was a product of the Thome non-signing, which was the worst thing Kenny has ever done, and he did it because he listened to Ozzie. Pierre was all Ozzie as well. Linebrink = the other side of the Jesse Crain signing, and it happens. It's hard to argue for the move, but at the same time, Linebrink had been one of the best relievers in all of baseball for quite some time, and relievers are always ultra risky. That '07 pen was atrocious. What do you do? It was one of his poorer moves, but you could've easily defended it at the time if you wanted to. Teahen, I will admit, I have no earthly idea what he was thinking.

 

My point though is that of these moves you have mentioned, Linebrink was at least defensible and was welcomed by many at the time given how bad the '07 pen was, and a lot of GMs get burned on relievers. Teahen was a brainfart, no doubt. The other two moves definitely reflect Kenny's greatest weakness, which is allowing the manager too much input. I can see wanting Kenny canned for that reason, truthfully.

 

But if you didn't have Gio Gonzalez and Hudson pitching well for other teams and Beckham flailing away for two consecutive seasons when we were promised and hyped Pedroia/Utley-esque numbers, there wouldn't be a problem for so many with KW.

 

I agree with this, but fans are being too demanding (and whiny) here.

 

Kenny's win-now mentality got us Freddy Garcia for a package that really pissed off Sox fans. Jeremy Reed's value to Sox fan prospect lovers far eclipsed any love Hudson ever got here, and that's not even mentioning Miguel Olivo who many thought would be an all-star one day, or Mike Morse, who was seen as the "throw-in" but, obviously as we see now, had a lot of potential.

 

Kenny's win-moves have been better more often than not, and that's because good prospects don't usually pan out. And the Hudson s*** here has been some of the worst crap I've ever seen on this site, just totally nuts. The guy was a fifth round pick, a reliever with a couple good pitches and some deception, who ended up becoming an overachiever. We traded him for a guy with tons of ability to try to win. The Brewers, Nats, Padres, and I'm sure several other teams passed on Hudson, because they, like the Sox, saw him as a #3 or so. The fans here who prognosticate so much have no idea whatsoever how little they know, nor any idea how much time and money organizations spend trying to evaluate prospects in anticipation of deals. There are scouts all over the country I am sure who are just amazed at what Hudson has been able to do with his talent, and how he has been able to mature so quickly on the mound. It seems that a few loud posters on a couple Sox sites got all bent out of shape about a trade and then, when Hudson proved them right, it gave them so much confidence that they actually now believe they're smarter than Kenny Williams or the Sox staff in general, and I think this has infected the rest of the board. I truly believe there are fans who somehow believe that they, with their few blurbs and scouting reports, snippets of video, couple of games they saw, baseball reference access, etc. are better at identifying talent and making decisions on talent than the Sox are with their mountains of resources and proven staff. I think the Jackson trade is what set most of this in motion, and my god is that dumb. If this team had a pulse going into September last year that trade for all purposes may look golden right now, and that is what Kenny was banking on more than anything else.

 

And then Beckham - that guy was everyone's favorite at one time. Why blame Kenny for keeping him when EVERYONE wanted to keep him? Should he have known he was going to be bad?

 

And then there's been the failure to even countenance a change in the hitting coach or just shaking up the coaching staff in general. I guess we fired Tim Raines, yay! That had a big impact, clearly.

 

I think THIS is the only legitimate reason to be upset at KW. He needs to take MORE control of the team IMO and stop deferring to people he is paid to overrule. If people want to look at the lack of responsibility he has taken and can him for that, I couldn't argue there. But from a moves only perspective I fail to see how he has been a bad GM.

 

BTW isn't a funny how fans are so quick to pull out that "unlucky" bulls*** about players who constantly get caught out in front and ground out, so much so that it's in the scouting report as a plan of attack, but then when it comes to signing/taking on good players with market value-at-the-time deals, a GM can't simply be "unlucky" himself?

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

It's far more than that. Sometimes those are escalated by a bad farm system. Look at many of the farm system failures. The at one time highly regarded prospects are such failures that they are practically out of organized baseball. That responsibility falls under the GM because they are in charge of scouting and development.

This is the worst argument of all. Fans love to pin farm system failures on Kenny Williams. Here are the problems with that:

 

-Reinsdorf seems to be the only owner left who tries to do right by Selig. The rules don't seem to apply to most of the other teams.

-Draft position makes it harder to get the guys (first round) that the Sox would see as deserving of over-slot bonuses and multi-million dollar bonuses.

-ALL TEAMS fail to develop talent. This needs to be accounted for, with the Sox appropriately weighted because of their position. You can't fault Kenny for not signing players the Texas Rangers sign and for not giving out bonuses the Texas Rangers give out, because Reinsdorf would never allow for that.

-Kenny trades prospects for talent. What so-and-so who is in another organization does or does not do does not matter anymore. The only thing that matters is what value the Sox got out of that player while he was here.

 

So Kenny plays by different rules and he uses talent as trading chips. Whaddya know, a weak farm system results. In real life, ie not computerized internet baseball, the success of an organization is judged by success on the field and in terms of revenue. So I really don't care about what teams have better farm systems, I care about whether or not we are winning, and ownership cares about whether or not we're making money. Really, I don't care if we have the worst system in baseball as long as we win. And to that end, go ahead and take away all those trades Kenny made where he traded prospects for veterans, and pencil them all in, and try to see what teams we would have ended up with over the last several years. They wouldn't have been very good teams.

 

That said, we could do a lot better when it comes to Latin American scouting and signing. But still, don't ever expect JR to greenlight a Yankees-esque total abuse of the system.

[BigSqwert]

This is the worst argument of all. Fans love to pin farm system failures on Kenny Williams. Here are the problems with that:

 

-Reinsdorf seems to be the only owner left who tries to do right by Selig. The rules don't seem to apply to most of the other teams.

-Draft position makes it harder to get the guys (first round) that the Sox would see as deserving of over-slot bonuses and multi-million dollar bonuses.

-ALL TEAMS fail to develop talent. This needs to be accounted for, with the Sox appropriately weighted because of their position. You can't fault Kenny for not signing players the Texas Rangers sign and for not giving out bonuses the Texas Rangers give out, because Reinsdorf would never allow for that.

-Kenny trades prospects for talent. What so-and-so who is in another organization does or does not do does not matter anymore. The only thing that matters is what value the Sox got out of that player while he was here.

 

So Kenny plays by different rules and he uses talent as trading chips. Whaddya know, a weak farm system results. In real life, ie not computerized internet baseball, the success of an organization is judged by success on the field and in terms of revenue. So I really don't care about what teams have better farm systems, I care about whether or not we are winning, and ownership cares about whether or not we're making money. Really, I don't care if we have the worst system in baseball as long as we win. And to that end, go ahead and take away all those trades Kenny made where he traded prospects for veterans, and pencil them all in, and try to see what teams we would have ended up with over the last several years. They wouldn't have been very good teams.

 

That said, we could do a lot better when it comes to Latin American scouting and signing. But still, don't ever expect JR to greenlight a Yankees-esque total abuse of the system.

 

Well we're not winning and we have our largest payroll ever.

 

[LVSoxFan]

Apparently in this thread we're not going to pin anything on KW, the way this is going.

 

Who knew that lack of accountability even extended not just through the organization, but through Soxtalk?

[Iwritecode]

I'd bet this is wrong. Just has to bounce off the catcher's glove.

 

Honestly, I was thinking that the drop-third strike rule only applied when the batter swung at the ball. I don't think I've ever seen in come into play when the batter didn't swing.

 

My first sentence is still true though. You can't hit the ball unless you swing the bat.

[bigruss]

This is the worst argument of all. Fans love to pin farm system failures on Kenny Williams. Here are the problems with that:

 

-Reinsdorf seems to be the only owner left who tries to do right by Selig. The rules don't seem to apply to most of the other teams.

-Draft position makes it harder to get the guys (first round) that the Sox would see as deserving of over-slot bonuses and multi-million dollar bonuses.

-ALL TEAMS fail to develop talent. This needs to be accounted for, with the Sox appropriately weighted because of their position. You can't fault Kenny for not signing players the Texas Rangers sign and for not giving out bonuses the Texas Rangers give out, because Reinsdorf would never allow for that.

-Kenny trades prospects for talent. What so-and-so who is in another organization does or does not do does not matter anymore. The only thing that matters is what value the Sox got out of that player while he was here.

 

So Kenny plays by different rules and he uses talent as trading chips. Whaddya know, a weak farm system results. In real life, ie not computerized internet baseball, the success of an organization is judged by success on the field and in terms of revenue. So I really don't care about what teams have better farm systems, I care about whether or not we are winning, and ownership cares about whether or not we're making money. Really, I don't care if we have the worst system in baseball as long as we win. And to that end, go ahead and take away all those trades Kenny made where he traded prospects for veterans, and pencil them all in, and try to see what teams we would have ended up with over the last several years. They wouldn't have been very good teams.

 

That said, we could do a lot better when it comes to Latin American scouting and signing. But still, don't ever expect JR to greenlight a Yankees-esque total abuse of the system.

You do realize that having a deep and talented farm system helps win, right?? Being able to replenish your team with young cost controlled players allows for bigger extensions or FA signings. Or you could trade prospects for players you want to fill holes (look at the Phillies).

 

We handicap ourselves, whether that's JR or Kenny, we have no one to blame but ourselves. Go overslot, have better draft philosophy, develop better. There are way to many internal problems that hurt the Sox than external. Don't blame draft position, because other teams have shown that they acn have worst draft position than the Sox and succeed leaps and bounds over what the Sox do.

 

And yes, we trade away prospects that go on to succeed, which wouldn't matter if the players we got back in return led us to a freaking playoff appearance (or better).

[bigruss]

Honestly, I was thinking that the drop-third strike rule only applied when the batter swung at the ball. I don't think I've ever seen in come into play when the batter didn't swing.

 

My first sentence is still true though. You can't hit the ball unless you swing the bat.

 

False, bunting is not really swinging the bat. Plus, a pitch could still hit the bat without the batter swinging it. It can hit off the handle b the hands and go in fair play, or do an even crazier off the barrel of the bat as the player ducks from a pitch at them. I've seen it happen.

 

[bigruss]

Apparently in this thread we're not going to pin anything on KW, the way this is going.

 

Who knew that lack of accountability even extended not just through the organization, but through Soxtalk?

I think there are different levels of accountability, but yes everyone deserves to take on some accountability, especially JR, kW, and Ozzie.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

You do realize that having a deep and talented farm system helps win, right?? Being able to replenish your team with young cost controlled players allows for bigger extensions or FA signings. Or you could trade prospects for players you want to fill holes (look at the Phillies).

 

We handicap ourselves, whether that's JR or Kenny, we have no one to blame but ourselves. Go overslot, have better draft philosophy, develop better. There are way to many internal problems that hurt the Sox than external. Don't blame draft position, because other teams have shown that they acn have worst draft position than the Sox and succeed leaps and bounds over what the Sox do.

 

And yes, we trade away prospects that go on to succeed, which wouldn't matter if the players we got back in return led us to a freaking playoff appearance (or better).

Then why aren't the Orioles winning right now?

 

Reality is very different. You plug in young, cost-controlled players who you think the world of and sometimes they become great and help you win. Most of the time they underachieve, often all the way to Japan or the indy leagues. It is pie-in-the-sky to believe that plugging in young players all the time actually works. It does not. Usually you deplete their value letting them struggle in the majors and then you're forced to move them for less and try to bring in a veteran to make up for lost time, and lost ground in the win column.

 

And the poster I was responding to was trying to lay the blame for the farm on Kenny. Kenny isn't the one setting the limits on slot bonuses and draft budgets. He's not the one trying to stick with Selig. And yes, I agree, I'd love to see us play the same game as everyone else, but we're not going to, and that is not Kenny's fault.

 

That doesn't mean I am absolving Kenny of everything. I am not. But he's been the whipping boy this year, and of all the criticism, the only area where I think it is even remotely reasonable to call for his head is in the area of personal ownership and control, and by that I mean he doesn't do what he wants to do all the time. That, however, is what he is paid to do. When he needs to overrule Ozzie he does not.

 

I can see fans wanting to can him for not calling up Viciedo right now or for not firing Greg Walker or Ozzie. It is totally unreasonable OTOH to want to can him for signing Adam Dunn, or for drafting and playing (instead of selling high) on Gordon Beckham, or for taking on the contracts of Rios or Peavy.

[caulfield12]

You can go through all the drafts and do this...

 

But the most recent ones, missing Garza in the first round for a collegiate "control" pitcher...not having the guts (and this is true of the rest of baseball, unfortunately it was a division rival) to pay Porcello's demands, not having a Maybin/Miller who at least LOOKED good enough to pry away Miguel Cabrera from the Marlins instead of him coming to the Southside...or the more recent Trout/Mitchell one.

 

If we don't go over slot in the drafting process, then you can't come up total ZERO in the Dominican Republic and Venezuela. For christ's sake, our manager is one of the most famous celebrities in the history of that country and we have what...Gregory Infante or Clevelan Santeliz (I know he's gone now) to show for it?

The irony is that Ozzie's machisimo nonsense...he has to challenge every single Hispanic player like Miguel or Victor Martinez when he has the chance instead of showing them the respect they deserve and walking them. Maybe it all started with how he had that sniping contest in public with Magglio Ordonez?

 

Yeah, yeah...we got Omar Vizquel 5-10 years too late, yay!

 

And if you blame Dave Wilder, then the lack of accountability STILL bounces back to KW. If anyone in Obama's administration messes up, who does the GOP point the finger at? It seems like KW has gotten a lot of slack for his lack of institutional control and trusting or being loyal to his "lieutenants" too much.

 

And congrats, we've finally gotten away from drafting football/baseball hybrids and deferred instead to finally picking "pure/refined" baseball products like Gordon "Future Jeter" Beckham and Keenyn Walker instead of the Mitchells, Fields and Borchards of the world.

 

Losing that draft pick with Adam Dunn just about adds enough insult to injury...God hope that Chris Sale becomes the next Randy Johnson as a starter and shuts everyone up for awhile.

 

 

In the end, letting Ozzie overrule KW on the Thome situation...for the flexibility of Kotsay/Andruw Jones, great if it was Kotsay/Jones closer to their primes. Same with Juan Pierre, or Manny Ramirez, or Ken Griffey, Jr. or Darin Erstad or nearly every veteran we've added the last 10 seasons.

 

Every time KW does something that doesn't work out, it's blamed on Ozzie Guillen...such as Juan Pierre. Everyone knows that speed players lose their burst in their 30's, and Pierre's gone from leading the league in stolen bases on year to Michael Cuddyer the next. Pods, same thing.

 

If you play 81 games at USCF, how can you possibly have so many low OBP/low OPS players on one roster? Well, it's because Ozzie wants NL-style players. If the 2005 roster was the blueprint....great starting pitching, just enough offense, lockdown bullpen, was evidence right there in front of your nose, why did that concept just totally get abandoned over time? Because we got more obsessed with beating the Twins and copying their system than having our own? Well, that worked out quite well, thank you very much. 7-29.

 

None of our players came up together through the same system. That's why you had Alexei Ramirez never trusting Mark Teahen to his right...or this year, not trusting Juan Pierre behind him. You have some of the worst fielding fundamentals in the AL that are hidden behind the best fielding percentage. You have almost 10 pitchouts where the runner's going still end up unsuccessful. And yet Tyler Flowers is clearly worse than AJ.

 

We might as well have made Dayan Viciedo a catcher.

 

 

Orioles? Same thing as the Royals until about 5 years ago. Or the Pirates. They couldn't decide whether to totally rebuild from scratch or keep adding in expensive veterans and trying to compete on the fly with Angelos' money instead of a strong minor league system.

 

We're not quite in the same position as the Mariners, but we're not far off either. Fortunately we have a lot of built-in advantages in the AL Central....nothing like the Rangers or the LA market to deal with (especially with the Dodgers' franchise foundering).

 

Other than Konerko (and it's an anomaly how he's gotten better in his mid 30's without steroids), giving any slugger a 4+ year contract in their 30's is almost never ever a good idea. You have to give those deals to players who are 27-29 when the contract begins. We're totally outside of the prime window of Dunn's career, but we're paying premium/prime dollars to what is ostensibly a DH-only player when those kinds of dollars should be going to superstar players in CF, SS, C, 3B and 2B that are difference makers in a line-up....like an Utley or Pedroia, Hanley Ramirez or Jose Reyes.

 

 

Edited August 1, 2011 by caulfield12

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

You can go through all the drafts and do this...

 

But the most recent ones, missing Garza in the first round for a collegiate "control" pitcher...not having the guts (and this is true of the rest of baseball, unfortunately it was a division rival) to pay Porcello's demands, not having a Maybin/Miller who at least LOOKED good enough to pry away Miguel Cabrera from the Marlins instead of him coming to the Southside...or the more recent Trout/Mitchell one.

 

If we don't go over slot in the drafting process, then you can't come up total ZERO in the Dominican Republic and Venezuela. For christ's sake, our manager is one of the most famous celebrities in the history of that country and we have what...Gregory Infante or Clevelan Santeliz (I know he's gone now) to show for it?

The irony is that Ozzie's machisimo nonsense...he has to challenge every single Hispanic player like Miguel or Victor Martinez when he has the chance instead of showing them the respect they deserve and walking them. Maybe it all started with how he had that sniping contest in public with Magglio Ordonez?

 

Yeah, yeah...we got Omar Vizquel 5-10 years too late, yay!

 

And if you blame Dave Wilder, then the lack of accountability STILL bounces back to KW. If anyone in Obama's administration messes up, who does the GOP point the finger at? It seems like KW has gotten a lot of slack for his lack of institutional control and trusting or being loyal to his "lieutenants" too much.

 

And congrats, we've finally gotten away from drafting football/baseball hybrids and deferred instead to finally picking "pure/refined" baseball products like Gordon "Future Jeter" Beckham and Keenyn Walker instead of the Mitchells, Fields and Borchards of the world.

 

Losing that draft pick with Adam Dunn just about adds enough insult to injury...God hope that Chris Sale becomes the next Randy Johnson as a starter and shuts everyone up for awhile.

Jesus Christ I'm wasting too much time on this site today, but I have to respond to this, because as always, you make good points.

 

It's not right to give Kenny a free pass on everything. Yes, Wilder was his friend and screwed him, but Kenny shouldn't have trusted him so much. Kenny also should have steered clear of the Broadways and McCullochs, but he did not. Who cares if some of the lower-ceiling picks were Duane Schaffer guys or not, Kenny was the head in charge, that all falls on him.

 

My problem is this: if you are calling for Kenny to be fired then you think the Sox can bring someone else in who will be better. I do not believe that is true.

 

1. You can't knock him for taking big dollar risks. Fans always want to trade their s***ty prospects for someone else's star; fans always want to get Teherans and Dominick Browns for their players; fans always want to spend more money, and stop being so damn cheap all the time. Well, if the fans want something for nothing, and they want to spend the money, and they want proven players in the PRIMES - not old guys - and if the fans want a TRUE ace of Cy Young caliber, and a REAL CF for once to put a stop to the BA/Owens/Erstad/Mackowiak/Wise/Griffey/Swisher/Terrero/Sweeney/etc. garbage, and if they want a REAL middle-of-the-order LH bat who will mash the ball and get on base at a .400 clip, then what do you do? You get them a Jake Peavy, Alex Rios, and Adam for a combined nothing short of a draft pick and Clayton Richard. Who the f*** out there does better than that?

 

2. The fans want to win now - and I'm not talking about like 7 nuthuggers on Soxtalk who want to keep everyone, I am talking about the fans in the city and suburbs who have s*** to do today that's more important than what I'm doing sitting here on my ass typing this - THOSE PEOPLE want to win. Those people are okay with trading prospects for proven vets. Take a look at Kenny's entire GM history, and who he has traded and who he was come up with. Again, who does better?

 

3. The farm system. He has made his mistakes, certainly. But given what he has had to deal with in the Wilder scandal, plus (and most importantly) all the restrictions put on him by ownership, again, who does better? Consider the prospects he has acquired also, the Gavin Floyd' and John Danks' of his tenure here. Who does better?

 

You can go on and on. Like I have said, there is one area where I believe Kenny is totally, definitively lacking, and even the Wilder scandal touches this, and possibly the Teahen deal also (Buddy Bell's input?), and that is the totally inappropriate amount of faith, input, and control he allows to those beneath him on the organizational totem pole. For all the negativity that Sox fans do now and have in the past tossed JR's way, JR, at the very minimum, seems to be an "in the background" kind of guy, and I doubt he's telling Kenny what to do or what not to do every step of the way. I firmly believe that as much as JR and Ozzie love each other, if Kenny insisted that Ozzie left town, and held firm, JR would allow for it. JR would certainly allow Kenny to call up Dayan in opposition to Ozzie's thinking. I see this as one area where undoubtedly someone else can come in and do a much better job, especially someone who hasn't spent most or all of his career with Reinsdorf.

 

So I see one great reason to can Kenny, and several other reasons not to. I believe, though, that if Kenny finally gets Ozzie out of town he may change and be a much better GM, having learned from all these experiences. But that is just me.

 

[caulfield12]

Fair enough, like Dick Allen defending Walker, it's nice to have a good debate and not just "so and so sucks."

 

And you're right, if we had Dan Evans instead of KW, probably we don't end up hiring Ozzie or putting together the 2004-2005 offseason and our team is now completely irrelevant....like the Astros, Mariners, Orioles, Cubs or Padres.

 

But I really wonder if Alex Rios genuinely spends as much time trying to think of ways to improve as we do writing about it here in our "free time"???

Edited August 1, 2011 by caulfield12

[Iwritecode]

False, bunting is not really swinging the bat. Plus, a pitch could still hit the bat without the batter swinging it. It can hit off the handle b the hands and go in fair play, or do an even crazier off the barrel of the bat as the player ducks from a pitch at them. I've seen it happen.

 

Now we are arguing the semantics of a figure of speech.