Who's Worse?

[flavum]

I put this season more on Kenny before it even started. He's got to go.

 

Sorry Rios and Dunn couldn't hit for you KW, but it's time for a new approach with this organization.

 

Hopefully his replacement will hire a new manager - or be allowed to hire a new manager.

[greg775]

For the Guillen apologists, please list out the reasons why you think that he needs to stay here as the manager of our ball club. I'm trying to objectively come up with reasons why he deserves to stay and I'm struggling to come up with anything other than he's entertaining with the media.

 

Kenny is worse. Gio, Richard, Hudson for nothing in return. Nice. Rios and Dunn. My god.

As far as your question. Here are the reasons he needs to stay. ...

-- He is only 48. He has learned a lot on the job here. He will only get better.

-- His handling of in-game strategy looks bad when it fails but in reality he pretty much manages by the book like most managers.

-- He is an institution of sorts in Chicago.

-- He knows how to win the big one. We got to the WS and completed the deal instead of pathetically just being happy to be there.

-- He actually has had this team overachieve. The offense is so bad I can't believe we're only 3 under .500.

-- He is not boring. He is colorful.

 

That said ... he is in charge and these guys can't bunt. That's on him. If KW has given him the green light to bench Rios/Dunn he should take him up on that. I don't think you guys have much to worry about, though. I firmly believe Florida has been a done deal in his mind for some time now.

[BigSqwert]

-- He knows how to win the big one. We got to the WS and completed the deal instead of pathetically just being happy to be there.

 

"Living in the past is for cowards and losers" -- Mike Ditka

 

Time to let go of something that happened 6 years ago.

 

[whitesoxfan101]

-- His handling of in-game strategy looks bad when it fails but in reality he pretty much manages by the book like most managers.

-- He is an institution of sorts in Chicago.

-- He actually has had this team overachieve. The offense is so bad I can't believe we're only 3 under .500.

 

Can't decide which portion of the bolded is more wrong/hilarious.

[greg775]

Can't decide which portion of the bolded is more wrong/hilarious.

 

You think his in-game strategy is that different from all other managers?

 

It's KW's duty to fire Walker, not Ozzie.

You don't think it's a miracle this team is three under .500 considering the offense? It's on KW to change the approach by firing Walker, not ozzie.

And blaming him for Dunn/Rios is kind of stupid IMO. Kenny is the guy who acquired them.

 

I wouldn't lose any sleep over Ozzie getting fired because he calls for the bunt when his players can't bunt. I don't mind the strategy I mind the fact apparently they don't work on bunting at all in spring training. After seeing Lilly's form on that bunt and Beckham's form ... wow.

Plus you guys are wasting your anger. He's Florida's next manager, so why not relax and enjoy the last 2 months of Ozzie.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Let's see....Konerko, Humber, Jeff Gray and probably Sergio Santos did better than expected. Maybe Crain.

 

You can argue either way about about Alexei (his defense has definitely taken a step backwards, and hitting with RISP), AJ, Quentin and Sale.

 

The rest of the roster has underachieved dramatically.

 

 

Anyone watching or following this team all season wouldn't argue that Ozzie's done a good job. The last 3 games offer about 50 examples of poor fundamentals alone. And Ozzie wonders why they are so poor? JESUS.

 

 

[BigSqwert]

You think his in-game strategy is that different from all other managers?

 

Yes. Most AL managers don't bunt and play for 1 run before the 4th inning of a game.

[greg775]

Yes. Most AL managers don't bunt and play for 1 run before the 4th inning of a game.

 

What percentage of situations has he done that?

The Sox I watch screw it up either way. Either strand runners the conventional way or f*** up the bunt.

[fathom]

Yes. Most AL managers don't bunt and play for 1 run before the 4th inning of a game.

 

While down 3 runs

[BigSqwert]

What percentage of situations has he done that?

The Sox I watch screw it up either way. Either strand runners the conventional way or f*** up the bunt.

 

Most managers with any sense of dignity wouldn't continue to trot out a CF that is obviously dogging it. What a disgrace.

[greg775]

Most managers with any sense of dignity wouldn't continue to trot out a CF that is obviously dogging it. What a disgrace.

 

Kenny and Jerry could release him.

It's not just Ozzie.

That column by Rosie was phenomenal. This is probably Ozzie just proving he can't be pushed around by the press, which I agree is not good. I don't agree with everything Ozzie does. I'd be all for sitting Rios/Dunn every game the rest of the season.

Edited August 2, 2011 by greg775

[BigSqwert]

Kenny and Jerry could release him.

It's not just Ozzie.

 

Kenny promoted De Aza and publicly stated that Ozzie doesn't need to play the most expensive players.

[BigSqwert]

Alex Rios in July:

 

Batting average of .163

On Base % of .183

No home runs

4 RBIs

 

Plus he has repeatedly dogged it in the field, multiple times within individual games.

 

 

[greg775]

Alex Rios in July:

 

Batting average of .163

On Base % of .183

No home runs

4 RBIs

 

Plus he has repeatedly dogged it in the field, multiple times within individual games.

 

He's definitely one of the worst excuses for a big leaguer in White Sox history.

Probably in the top five most overpaid players though Peavy and Dunn battle him on that one as well.

[BigSqwert]

He's definitely one of the worst excuses for a big leaguer in White Sox history.

Probably in the top five most overpaid players though Peavy and Dunn battle him on that one as well.

 

And apparently there are only 2 people alive that are Ok with him continuing to play everyday. You and Ozzie Guillen.

[caulfield12]

Peavy doesn't belong in the same conversation as Dunn/Rios.

 

He's doing the best he possibly can...he could just shut it down completely and collect a salary, but he's always pushed himself harder than anyone on the Sox could push him and unfortunately that's caused him more setbacks than if they'd just taken the conservative approach from the very moment he was acquired.

 

Zero reason he should have been pitching in 2009, that team was toast and nothing was going to turn it around...especially the way Rios was playing, and Dye fading as well.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I feel like I've answered this before....

 

 

 

 

 

Rios Ozzie, and it's not even close.

 

There is a difference between trying your hardest and failing, and not giving a flying f*** and being lazy.

[southsider2k5]

For me, Rios is quickly descending the list towards Jaime Navarro status. All he has to do now is blame his teammates for his sucking and he will be there.

[Quin]

Kenny is worse. Gio, Richard, Hudson for nothing in return. Nice. Rios and Dunn. My god.

 

The Peavy deal gets done 100 out of 100 times.

 

Gio made sense at the time, since Swisher looked like he was going to be really, really good player. Just there was no "personality scouting report"

 

Hudson deal is the only one I never understood.

 

But lets think of it this way,

 

Has kept Konerko, twice, in FA.

 

Got Danks for McCarthy.

 

Got Floyd for Freddy, who had 1 win in a Phils uniform.

 

Built that 2005 team, so obviously he knows how to build a winner.

 

He generally always builds a good BP (Jenks, Thornton, Crain, Putz, Santos we're all steals).

 

Humber gets a spot here.

 

Ramon Castro for the corpse of Lance Broadway.

[Milkman delivers]

JUST IGNORE HIM AND YOU WON'T HAVE TO ARGUE WITH HIS TERRIBLE AND MORONIC "LOGIC"!

[Jordan4life_2007]

The Peavy deal gets done 100 out of 100 times.

 

Gio made sense at the time, since Swisher looked like he was going to be really, really good player. Just there was no "personality scouting report"

 

Hudson deal is the only one I never understood.

 

But lets think of it this way,

 

Has kept Konerko, twice, in FA.

 

Got Danks for McCarthy.

 

Got Floyd for Freddy, who had 1 win in a Phils uniform.

 

Built that 2005 team, so obviously he knows how to build a winner.

 

He generally always builds a good BP (Jenks, Thornton, Crain, Putz, Santos we're all steals).

 

Humber gets a spot here.

 

Ramon Castro for the corpse of Lance Broadway.

 

The Gio deal was fine the first time. The second one was inexcusable. When has a GM traded a stud pitching prospect TWICE before he's ever pitched for the big league team? Only KW.

[southsider2k5]

The Peavy deal gets done 100 out of 100 times.

 

Gio made sense at the time, since Swisher looked like he was going to be really, really good player. Just there was no "personality scouting report"

 

Hudson deal is the only one I never understood.

 

But lets think of it this way,

 

Has kept Konerko, twice, in FA.

 

Got Danks for McCarthy.

 

Got Floyd for Freddy, who had 1 win in a Phils uniform.

 

Built that 2005 team, so obviously he knows how to build a winner.

 

He generally always builds a good BP (Jenks, Thornton, Crain, Putz, Santos we're all steals).

 

Humber gets a spot here.

 

Ramon Castro for the corpse of Lance Broadway.

 

And Gio back. If Kenny gets credit for trading Gio, he should also get credit for getting him back and drafting him.

[greg775]

JUST IGNORE HIM AND YOU WON'T HAVE TO ARGUE WITH HIS TERRIBLE AND MORONIC "LOGIC"!

 

Who? Me?

Or is somebody else on your s*** list?

You Ozzie haters act like the whole city is in your corner. If Ozzie walked into a restaurant later tonight, the place would be buzzing. People love Ozzie Guillen as they should.

He is one of a kind IMO.

 

Now is this a s***ty season for him? Yes.

Should he have been fired for our start in April/May? Yeah.

Should he be fired for calling for the bunt when his guys can't bunt? Yeah probably. If you like the bunt, you should at least demand the players learn how to bunt and not look like clowns in attempting the sacrifice bunt.

But I still think he's a good manager. He needs a GM willing to be a GM and put the players he wants on the roster, not the players only the manager wants.

Fire KW; Ozzie one more year.

Edited August 3, 2011 by greg775

[T R U]

He enjoys the wave and Ozzie Guillen. Need I say more?

 

I do not enjoy the wave, I just hate when people try to s*** all over things other people enjoy doing.. regardless of how idiotic it is..

 

And as far as Ozzie Guillen goes if Dunn, Rios, and Peavy were all performing close to their norms or not getting injured wed be in first place by a good margin and no one would be talking about Ozzie being a terrible manager..

 

I know Ozzie isn't one of the best managers in the league, but I think hes a good fit for our team.. Like I said, if people were performing this isn't even that big of an issue..

 

Kw has continually made bad move after bad move.. what the hell did he do this year? We didn't commit to rebuilding, we didn't commit to going for it.. He traded one of our better pitchers for NOTHING.. If it takes both of them to go for KW to go, so be it.. but nothing is going to change at all with a new manager here and KW still as the GM.. so I say KW is worse

[whitesoxfan101]

And as far as Ozzie Guillen goes if Dunn, Rios, and Peavy were all performing close to their norms or not getting injured wed be in first place by a good margin and no one would be talking about Ozzie being a terrible manager..

 

Why do people ignore that Paul Konerko, at age 35, is above his career norms in every offensive category right now? Why do people ignore that Phil Humber is pitching way over the expectations anybody had for him? What about the good fortune (based on his career history) that Quentin has stayed healthy? Or Mark Buehrle having an ERA 3/5 of a run lower than his career norm even though he's into his 30's and had an ERA over a run higher last year than this year?

 

I get that you want to defend Ozzie, but you can't just point out the underachievers and ignore the overachievers.

Edited August 3, 2011 by whitesoxfan101