This Franchise has a Hitting Problem

[cabiness42]

I will start with the disclaimer that my experience playing baseball ended at age 11, so I don't know enough to be any more than results-oriented, but I can spot an overwhelming trend.

 

To start with, 5 of the 9 "starters" (guys with the most PA) have an OPS under .700. In a park like the Cell, there is no value in one guy, let alone five, hitting that poorly. The only exception might be a guy giving you gold glove defense at SS or CF, but the one guy who does that is over .700 anyway.

 

Most of these guys weren't this bad before, though.

 

Dunn is the most dramatic example with an OPS almost 300 points below his career average.

Beckham tore up the minors and had a great start with the Sox before regressing horribly.

Morel was a decent hitter in the minors but has never done anything with the Sox.

Rios has always been inconsistent but never this bad.

Teahen was never a superstar but got progressively worse here.

Pierre is the one guy who really should be as bad as he is.

 

Going back a few years, guys like Nick Swisher and Wilson Betemit were much more productive before and/or after their Sox tenure.

 

I'm not saying that some of the signings/trades Ken Williams has made weren't poor, but in pretty much every case, it was realistic for him to expect better production than these players have provided.

 

Again, I'm not an expert, so I can't tell you whether it's Ozzie's fault or Greg Walker's fault or some other reason, but I see too much of a pattern here for it to be a concidence. SOMETHING is causing hitters to consistently underperform. Something that Konerko has apparently been immune to all these years.

 

Any ideas?

[JohnCangelosi]

Ozzie will "take responsibility" by blaming it on the players and never consider it could be something with the coaching staff. I am not going to go on a tangent about Walker, as I think everything that needs to be said about him has been said.

 

But to not tinker with the personnel or the coaching staff during this awful offensive season tells it all. Our entire management team from top to bottom is absolutely clueless or quite simply can give two sh*ts. It's probably somewhere in between is my guess.

[LVSoxFan]

Oh, it gets worse.

 

Today's Sun-Times. Ozzie still "believes." Displaying a Dave Wannestadt-like vision ("All the pieces are in place!"), Ozzie claims that hey: we're still just 4+ games out with 50 games to go, so you know... anything can happen.

 

I'm guessing by "anything" he means Dunn will miraculously start actually hitting the ball and Rios will come out of his season-long slump.

 

Yes, let's all take that action.

 

Speaking of gambling, KW and Ozzie have displayed the classic chronic gambler mentality this year: if we just keep doing what we're doing, that one big score is just around the corner. Despite bust after bust after bust. There's a fine line between faith and delusion, and I think we've crossed it.

 

Back to the OP: you raise an interesting point--why IS Paul Konerko immune to all these hitting woes?

[lasttriptotulsa]

It's not really fair to say "Morel has never done anything with the White Sox". He is a rookie with only a couple hundred at bats in his career. Sure he is not walking at all, and not hitting many 2B, HR, but many rookies would kill to hit .250.

 

I think a lot of Beckham's problems are from Greg Walker. He came up in '09 driving everything to right field, then came back in '10 and tried to pull everything. He started swinging and missing a ton. This seems to be the Greg Walker approach to hitting.

 

Dunn will snap out of it. I think he just maybe hit that age where things aren't quite as easy as they once were, but he will figure it out. Maybe not this year, but next.

 

Rios needs to ditch his stance and completely start over. That stance seems to work when your going good, but does not allow for any consistency. Would a new hitting coach be able to fix him? Who knows.

 

Just my thoughts.

[RockRaines]

Morel will hit, I think its obvious that he will come around. I dont think he'll ever be a top hitter for this club, but certainly can peak like Joe Crede with a slightly higher avg and less power.

 

 

Rios's stance is one of the worst I've ever seen. He completely takes his lower body out of the swing. Thats why he can only pull the ball, he has zero rotation and torque.

 

Bottom line is Greg Walker needs to be let go as does Ozzie. This team has tuned them both out and its time for a fresh voice. I wouldnt mind showing KW the door and letting Hahn and Buddy Bell run this franchise.

[EvilJester99]

As I have said b4... Rios needs to stand up and I think Dunn's biggest problem is he is so damn far off the plate.. if he moved in I think it would help him.

[lasttriptotulsa]

As I have said b4... Rios needs to stand up and I think Dunn's biggest problem is he is so damn far off the plate.. if he moved in I think it would help him.

 

I think because he is 6'6", Dunn can't really move closer to the plate. If he did, there is no way he could get his arms in to even fight off an inside pitch. Most of the tall players you see (6'4" plus) stand off the plate for this very reason. Even the great Frank Thomas would struggle with the inside pitch for this reason. It wasn't until he opened up his stance that he really got good at driving the inside pitch.

[Middle Buffalo]

Dunn is the most dramatic example with an OPS almost 300 points below his career average.

Beckham tore up the minors and had a great start with the Sox before regressing horribly.

Morel was a decent hitter in the minors but has never done anything with the Sox.

Rios has always been inconsistent but never this bad.

Teahen was never a superstar but got progressively worse here.

Pierre is the one guy who really should be as bad as he is.

 

Going back a few years, guys like Nick Swisher and Wilson Betemit were much more productive before and/or after their Sox tenure.

 

I'm not saying that some of the signings/trades Ken Williams has made weren't poor, but in pretty much every case, it was realistic for him to expect better production than these players have provided.

 

Again, I'm not an expert, so I can't tell you whether it's Ozzie's fault or Greg Walker's fault or some other reason, but I see too much of a pattern here for it to be a concidence. SOMETHING is causing hitters to consistently underperform. Something that Konerko has apparently been immune to all these years.

 

Any ideas?

With young guys like Beckham and Morel, patience is the key. I think the crazy stats guys put up in the previous generation (the steroid era) has made people forget that players generally develop kind of slowly into the player they'll be from 26-32, then they decline. Guys putting up power stats late into their 30's was a result of PEDs. Beckham isn't a bust - yet. Morel at this stage makes up for his offensive inefficiency with pretty good defense at 3b.

 

Rios has a terrible stance. I'm not sure if he'd ever change it, or if that's the stance he's had his whole life, but "sitting" like he does is not a recipe for success at the plate.

 

Dunn is the kind of player Ozzie wanted to get away from (see Jim Thome). In a perfect world, Dunn is suited to the Cell, but the all or nothing approach is not what Ozzie wants/likes.

 

The hitting coach is very likely not the problem. I think that's giving him too much "credit." Players are stubborn. I doubt that it's Walker's approach to pull everything and swing and miss. I've heard him interviewed and he said there are guys who take the proper approach in bp, then revert to their old habits in the game. If anything, Ozzie should bench guys who don't take the proper approach at the plate.

 

 

[LVSoxFan]

Ozzie actually bench somebody?

[DrunkBomber]

[CanOfCorn]

Dunn has had a strange year, even before it started. Adjusting to DH. Appendectomy. Knee issues. He isn't this bad, but he's in his own head, now. Beckham is coming around. Morel is too young to know yet. Rios, well, there aren't words. Pierre, while he isn't good, works his tail off. I'd rather have that guy than someone who just doesn't seem to care.

[kwolf68]

 

The Rios stance is urban legend. You can hit with that or any number of other funky stances. Sure Sure, you wouldn't really teach a young player to hit like Rios does, but the problem with Rios isn't he lacks talent or has a bad stance, the problem with him is he is a pile of goo.

[SI1020]

Dunn will snap out of it. I think he just maybe hit that age where things aren't quite as easy as they once were, but he will figure it out. Maybe not this year, but next.

I would like to think that but I can't remember one hitter that fell off as dramatically has Dunn has except for Jermaine Dye in the second half of 09. Funny how they played on the same team. Is there something in the clubhouse water? Seriously though when I see Dunn and I'd hate to call what he's doing struggling I remember Steve Blass the Pirates star pitcher who suddenly couldn't throw a strike to save his life. I know some will see this as a poor comparison but Dunn is in far more than just a slump. He looks like he has totally lost it. Again, I do hope you're right about the Big Donkey. Edited August 3, 2011 by SI1020

[LittleHurt05]

I would like to think that but I can't remember one hitter that fell off as dramatically has Dunn has except for Jermaine Dye in the second half of 09. Funny how they played on the same team. Is there something in the clubhouse water? Seriously though when I see Dunn and I'd hate to call what he's doing struggling I remember Steve Blass the Pirates star pitcher who suddenly couldn't throw a strike to save his life. I know some will see this as a poor comparison but Dunn is in far more than just a slump. He looks like he has totally lost it. Again, I do hope you're right about the Big Donkey.

 

Good comparison with Dye. He was absolutely dreadful in that 2nd half, just as bad as Dunn was. He never get a chance to prove if that was a fluke or if he was done. Dunn will have 3 more years to prove himself, fingers are crossed.

[Balta1701]

Good comparison with Dye. He was absolutely dreadful in that 2nd half, just as bad as Dunn was. He never get a chance to prove if that was a fluke or if he was done. Dunn will have 3 more years to prove himself, fingers are crossed.

He got offered chances, they just were the kind of deal that we'd offer Adam Dunn right now. He didn't want to take that kind of deal.

[Steve9347]

NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES FIRE GREG WALKER.

[hogan873]

NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES FIRE GREG WALKER.

Trying a little reverse psychology?

[Steve9347]

Trying a little reverse psychology?

OZZIE GUILLEN FOR LIFETIME CONTRACT.

[greg775]

The Rios stance is urban legend. You can hit with that or any number of other funky stances. Sure Sure, you wouldn't really teach a young player to hit like Rios does, but the problem with Rios isn't he lacks talent or has a bad stance, the problem with him is he is a pile of goo.

 

Really?

Big Frank didn't seem to like his stance and Beckham's approach sucks, too, IMO.

Dunn? I despise what he does with the bat but I think his is more of just losing it at age 31.

 

 

[Middle Buffalo]

The Rios stance is urban legend. You can hit with that or any number of other funky stances. Sure Sure, you wouldn't really teach a young player to hit like Rios does, but the problem with Rios isn't he lacks talent or has a bad stance, the problem with him is he is a pile of goo.

True. However, the problem with an unconventional approach to hitting (or pitching, swinging a golf club, shooting a basketball, etc) isn't that you can't successfully do it. The problem is when things go wrong, a coach can't really teach you how to correct the problem because you don't use a "textbook" approach. The player essentially has to figure things out for himself because the way they perform is more feel than proper mechanics.

 

Dunn is messed up in the head right now. He's guessing.

 

Beckham is trying to pull everything and hit for power. I still have hopes of him being a Paul Molitor type.

[Whitewashed in '05]

Coaching has been a problem with this organization for a long time now. It's improved since Buddy Bell has joined the organization, but there are still problems. There's been a number of sox top prospects that have hit at a pretty good level before they got to the majors and then flamed out. Now of course there are many variables attributed to this like the prospects shouldn't have been so highly rated or that nothing is guaranteed with prospects once they hit the big show, but I think there's still some coaching problems.

 

I believe the constant hitting troubles has more to do with than just Walker, but I also believe that he's been here long enough to show some upward progress and he really hasn't done that. Year after year now the sox have had troubles hitting and I think it's time these players got a different hitting perspective from a different hitting coach. The loyalty this organization has to its staff is admirable, but please, it's time for a shakeup already.

[Soxfest]

Walker has been tuned out for years now...............time for a new voice or approach.

[BigSqwert]