Milkman delivers Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 QUOTE (jenksfart @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 05:22 PM) Jerry Reinsdorf, I am just a minion who is overly concerned with adult men playing a kid's game. I have no life, so I post on message board forums. I am working on my post count rather than spend good quality free time with friends or family. With that said. I am expert at making decisions for an organization that is worth in the hundreds of millions. Please Fire Ozzie. Please Fire Kenny. After that, I will send you my off-season plan of refacing this roster. Please reply asap. My shift at Dicks Sporting Goods starts soon. Well, this guy adds a lot! Ban, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksfart Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Well, this guy adds a lot! Ban, please. Green? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Except there's no way to foresee Carlos Quentin doing that to himself. Had Quentin gone into that offseason healthy, I still think there's at least a 35-45% chance we could have taken out the Rays. But because we were missing Crede (Uribe was filling in more than adequately), Contreras was a non-factor, CQ, and then the scrambled rotation because of the 4 man and having to win on turf as the Rays had the home field...it's not like we were completely blown out. We had leads in both of those first two games. It's not like we were the Cubs or (typical) Twins that post-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 05:25 PM) Except there's no way to foresee Carlos Quentin doing that to himself. Had Quentin gone into that offseason healthy, I still think there's at least a 35-45% chance we could have taken out the Rays. But because we were missing Crede (Uribe was filling in more than adequately), Contreras was a non-factor, CQ, and then the scrambled rotation because of the 4 man and having to win on turf as the Rays had the home field...it's not like we were completely blown out. We had leads in both of those first two games. It's not like we were the Cubs or (typical) Twins that post-season. All of these ifs and buts. It doesn't change what happened or where we find ourselves right now. We're looking at a restructuring that could have been started years ago at the price of one measly playoff victory. Edited August 3, 2011 by Milkman delivers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 05:13 PM) Because the positives of cleaning house far outweigh the "real" possibilities of making the playoffs. I know, people will come out with the 2006 Cardinals argument. But we all know that that isn't going to happen. And others will say that cleaning house won't ensure any future success. And again, we all know that we will have no future success with this current management team. The negatives of turning into the Royals or Pirates don't out weigh them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 05:44 PM) The negatives of turning into the Royals or Pirates don't out weigh them Ah, see? One of the two responses that I expected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 05:13 PM) Because the positives of cleaning house far outweigh the "real" possibilities of making the playoffs. I know, people will come out with the 2006 Cardinals argument. But we all know that that isn't going to happen. And others will say that cleaning house won't ensure any future success. And again, we all know that we will have no future success with this current management team. If they make the playoffs this year, wouldn't that be considered future success with this management team??? To get this team into the playoffs, Ozzie would have do something right over the next two months & KW's busts would have to start playing like they were supposed to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 06:48 PM) Ah, see? One of the two responses that I expected I got nothin' if you're waiting on me for the other one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 05:48 PM) Ah, see? One of the two responses that I expected It is a real concern that is completely glossed over by the melt it down crowd. Even after a minimal move like the Jackson deal, there were already people starting to talk about White Flag trades. Because of the history of this organization, you can't sell off everything, and expect people to show up. I'm not even talking about the 10% drop. I am talking about a massive drop off. If we sold off completely the season ticket base would drop by a large percentage, as would the payroll. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to have seen a $70 to $75 million payroll in 2012. In our case that would mean Dunn, Rios, and maybe Konerko somehow. That number would death spiral until our farm system started producing. Which if you are talking about a real turnover, you would be talking about 3 to 5 years, if it worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 05:28 PM) All of these ifs and buts. It doesn't change what happened or where we find ourselves right now. We're looking at a restructuring that could have been started years ago at the price of one measly playoff victory. That division title & playoff victory were worth it for me. I'd rather be at this point than have had no successes, considering the odds of immediate success from restructuring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 05:58 PM) If they make the playoffs this year, wouldn't that be considered future success with this management team??? To get this team into the playoffs, Ozzie would have do something right over the next two months & KW's busts would have to start playing like they were supposed to. If they get in, it would almost certainly be due to us being the tallest midget. Every other team just somehow played worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 (edited) Well, the Tigers are 4-17 in games started by their 5th starter this year. Sound familiar? Basically, they're the 2002-2004 White Sox with two true superstars and Victor Martinez as well. Similar offensively, too, when clicking on all cylinders. And somehow, Fister has only given up 4 stolen bases in his entire career...maybe I misheard and it was 6, but an unbelieveably low number fo 70 games pitched. If AJ's back for 2012, we could have used someone with those numbers. But still think he'll be just "meh/average" for the Tiggers. Edited August 3, 2011 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 06:40 PM) If they get in, it would almost certainly be due to us being the tallest midget. Every other team just somehow played worse. Then they could be like the 2006 Cardinals???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 06:47 PM) Well, the Tigers are 4-17 in games started by their 5th starter this year. Sound familiar? Basically, they're the 2002-2004 White Sox with two true superstars and Victor Martinez as well. Similar offensively, too, when clicking on all cylinders. One big difference. The 02-04 Sox actually had 90-win teams in their division. Most other years, these Tigers would be another 2nd/3rd place team too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Yep, the 2002 Indians and then the Twins for all three of those years would have destroyed this Tigers team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted August 4, 2011 Author Share Posted August 4, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 05:08 PM) It is a real concern that is completely glossed over by the melt it down crowd. Even after a minimal move like the Jackson deal, there were already people starting to talk about White Flag trades. Because of the history of this organization, you can't sell off everything, and expect people to show up. I'm not even talking about the 10% drop. I am talking about a massive drop off. If we sold off completely the season ticket base would drop by a large percentage, as would the payroll. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to have seen a $70 to $75 million payroll in 2012. In our case that would mean Dunn, Rios, and maybe Konerko somehow. That number would death spiral until our farm system started producing. Which if you are talking about a real turnover, you would be talking about 3 to 5 years, if it worked. I couldn't trust this organization as it is now to do a rebuild in 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawksfan61 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 05:18 PM) I still don't get how people can root against making the playoffs. Your hatred of a coach/gm overwhelms your wishes for team success??? Do you root for a team or just for the coaching staff? Seriously, root AGAINST making the playoffs in order to get management fired, I feel like I am taking crazy pills here. I hate this team right now, they are boring, play dumb baseball, and seem to have packed it in for the season, but if at any point they want to wake up and catch fire to make it into the playoffs that would be fine by me. Playoff baseball has been a rarity for this fanbase, we shouldn't be rooting against it because we think Ozzie is a clown and Kenny couldn't manage a fantasy baseball team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 06:08 PM) It is a real concern that is completely glossed over by the melt it down crowd. Even after a minimal move like the Jackson deal, there were already people starting to talk about White Flag trades. Because of the history of this organization, you can't sell off everything, and expect people to show up. I'm not even talking about the 10% drop. I am talking about a massive drop off. If we sold off completely the season ticket base would drop by a large percentage, as would the payroll. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to have seen a $70 to $75 million payroll in 2012. In our case that would mean Dunn, Rios, and maybe Konerko somehow. That number would death spiral until our farm system started producing. Which if you are talking about a real turnover, you would be talking about 3 to 5 years, if it worked. Silly argument. The ST base dropped last year after a winning season and payroll increase. Sox history shows that they have to win first, sell tickets later. With the economy as bad as it is this is the best time to rebuild - well last year or the trade deadline would have been better, but that's another story. There's no White Flag here Sox fans are calling for a tear down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 4, 2011 -> 07:48 AM) Silly argument. The ST base dropped last year after a winning season and payroll increase. Sox history shows that they have to win first, sell tickets later. With the economy as bad as it is this is the best time to rebuild - well last year or the trade deadline would have been better, but that's another story. There's no White Flag here Sox fans are calling for a tear down. Then why did the term "white flag" start showing up everywhere as soon as Edwin Jackson got traded? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 4, 2011 -> 08:51 AM) Then why did the term "white flag" start showing up everywhere as soon as Edwin Jackson got traded? It wasn't showing up before that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 4, 2011 -> 07:52 AM) It wasn't showing up before that? It hit the media as soon as the trade happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Adam Dunn hit a home run tonight Mr. Chairman so things are finally looking up aren't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguy79 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 05:08 PM) It is a real concern that is completely glossed over by the melt it down crowd. Even after a minimal move like the Jackson deal, there were already people starting to talk about White Flag trades. Because of the history of this organization, you can't sell off everything, and expect people to show up. I'm not even talking about the 10% drop. I am talking about a massive drop off. If we sold off completely the season ticket base would drop by a large percentage, as would the payroll. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to have seen a $70 to $75 million payroll in 2012. In our case that would mean Dunn, Rios, and maybe Konerko somehow. That number would death spiral until our farm system started producing. Which if you are talking about a real turnover, you would be talking about 3 to 5 years, if it worked. This is exactly right, payroll will be down in the $70s if we don't get into contention and fool people into putting down playoff deposits. That being said I am not opposed to dropping payroll and going young as the division will still be winnable even without a huge payroll (but based on the young talent we have seen in our system they don't produce at a MLB level). It will likely be a 5-year rebuilding project and a lot of 15-20,000 attendance nights (I mean only drawing 25,000 for a Friday night fireworks game against Boston is just silly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 QUOTE (chiguy79 @ Aug 5, 2011 -> 03:34 AM) This is exactly right, payroll will be down in the $70s if we don't get into contention and fool people into putting down playoff deposits. That being said I am not opposed to dropping payroll and going young as the division will still be winnable even without a huge payroll (but based on the young talent we have seen in our system they don't produce at a MLB level). It will likely be a 5-year rebuilding project and a lot of 15-20,000 attendance nights (I mean only drawing 25,000 for a Friday night fireworks game against Boston is just silly). The next 2-3 years definitely look like the Tigers and Indians will be in the best position to win the AL Central. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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