Cotts for Tuesday in Anaheim??

[Rex Hudler]

Let me clear up a few issues about Cotts here........

 

1st of all (this one is for you Bmr), I am not professing Cotts will turn into Sandy Koufax or Randy Johnson, nor am I nominating Cotts for the Hall of Fame ballot...

 

2nd, I have said all year long that Neal's control (walks, pitch count) were holding him back and that was his major issue that would hurt him in the big leagues.........

 

I do encourage all of you be open-minded and look past his overall stats in terms of walks and here is why...

 

In Cotts first 10 starts he pitched 51.1 innings and walked 32 batters. In his last 10 starts, he has pitched 55 innings and has walked 24, an improved ratio. Looking into the last 10 starts, he has had starts with 4 walks or more. The first one was 6 walks and there is no sugarcoating it, he wasn't good that day. The second was recently when he had a no-hitter through 7, he walked 5. Two of those five came when the wheels fell off in the 8th inning, so he only had 3 walks in 7 innings, which is fine. Last night was the other outing where he walked four and one of those was intentional. He didn't have his best command, but his results were still outstanding. In his last four outings, two have had no walks with 7 IP each time.

 

As CubKila said, Neal certainly could get bombed just as any Major League starter could on any given start. No one knows how a guy will handle his first start in the Majors, so the results in one start may not reflect his "readiness" at all. However, after seeing approximately 8 or 9 of Neal's starts this year and watching his progress, I am very comfortable stating that he is ready for the role of 5th starter for the rest of the year. I think he would more than hold his own.

 

Lastly, on this issue of speed. I am not huge on radar gun readings, but Cotts has surprised me lately. In the first half of the season he was throwing consistenly at 87-89. In the second half he has been in the 88-91 range. A couple of scouts have told me that they have even got him at 94 a couple of times, although he is more consistently around 89-90.

 

I know not everyone will be convinced and some won't be able to look past his overall walk total, but I hope this helps some see past that.

[VAfan]

omfg vafan is here too????? hey va......how ya doin... i hear cj will be joining the team soon..........  sorry i couldnt resist...... lol

Yes, it's me. But I've long ago given up that fight. Go Miguel!! You might be surprised if you checked out the MLB site as to what I've posted this year. For one, I started a "Faith" post when things looked bleakest and held to it through thick and thin. The question was -- who still had faith the Sox would make the postseason this year?

 

At this point, the Sox just need to play well. But the one move they could still make that would have the greatest positive impact would be to bring up the hot hand -- Neal Cotts -- for the 4-5 starts remaining for the #5 guy.

[VAfan]

Let me clear up a few issues about Cotts here........

 

Rex, in the short time I've been on this board, you have stood out as the most knowledgable about Cotts because you have seen him the most.

 

Can you follow up with some additional information on the point you were making with walks? Namely that many have come late? Do you have the box scores for Cott's starts this year? I'd be really interested if anyone ever got to him early, since lately he has been throwing goose eggs through 6 or 7 innings.

 

You were also the one, I believe, to post the stat showing Cotts had precisely the same stats as Mark Buehrle (8-4, etc.) when Mark was called up from AA. Did you see Mark then? How would you compare the two of them? As I noted above, Buehrle helped in 2000 and it seems to me Cotts could do the same. Especially when the alternative is not working.

[Bmr31]

I am going to be a dissenter and say that Neal Cotts would get pounded with the control that he has been exhibiting.  In the minors you can get away with walks, in the majors walks will haunt.  These guys will kill Neal Cotts if he is giving up 4 1/2 walks a game.  Now if he can get down his walk totals down, he should be OK.

My thoughts exactly, Im glad i read all the responses before posting. Until he corrects the walks problems, he should remain in the minors. There is not a need for Cotts right now, so why rush him? The last thing he needs is to lose his confidence because he was brought up too early,and shelled.

[Guest hotsoxchick1]

omfg vafan is here too????? hey va......how ya doin... i hear cj will be joining the team soon..........  sorry i couldnt resist...... lol

Yes, it's me. But I've long ago given up that fight. Go Miguel!! You might be surprised if you checked out the MLB site as to what I've posted this year. For one, I started a "Faith" post when things looked bleakest and held to it through thick and thin. The question was -- who still had faith the Sox would make the postseason this year?

 

At this point, the Sox just need to play well. But the one move they could still make that would have the greatest positive impact would be to bring up the hot hand -- Neal Cotts -- for the 4-5 starts remaining for the #5 guy.

well im glad to see ya.. i havent been to mlb boards for quite some time now.. tired of all the riff raff/stalkers flooding email boxes and such lol.........you knew you couldnt sneak on here without me giving you the official warm welcome lol...(hence the cj remarks)...........i see you are on my miguel bandwagon huh... remember who was tooting his horn loudest??? lol.....theres a few moves i thought they could make which would improve our chances but .. i think ill just stick with what we have....no sense in disrupting what ever it is thats happening now which btw is working out to our favor......roll with it right.......anyhow im glad your aboard here i have missed posters like you and a few others since i left there...........nice to see ya around........

[Rex Hudler]

Let me clear up a few issues about Cotts here........

 

Rex, in the short time I've been on this board, you have stood out as the most knowledgable about Cotts because you have seen him the most.

 

Can you follow up with some additional information on the point you were making with walks? Namely that many have come late? Do you have the box scores for Cott's starts this year? I'd be really interested if anyone ever got to him early, since lately he has been throwing goose eggs through 6 or 7 innings.

 

You were also the one, I believe, to post the stat showing Cotts had precisely the same stats as Mark Buehrle (8-4, etc.) when Mark was called up from AA. Did you see Mark then? How would you compare the two of them? As I noted above, Buehrle helped in 2000 and it seems to me Cotts could do the same. Especially when the alternative is not working.

Early on in the year, Cotts would get himself into trouble early but would generally pitch his way out of it. Lately, he has just been lights out.

 

I really don't think we need to overanalyze him. His walk rate has come down and that is what everyone is concerned about. He has had success in every aspect except for the walk rate and that has improved immensely. Could he have a bad game here and there? Sure......

 

But I think sometimes we tend to think too much. You know somewhere on some board, earlier this season some guy was posting something to this effect.....

 

There is no need to call up Willis from AA. Dontrelle needs more time and experience and it is too soon to expose him to Major League hitters. He was just in Single-A last year. Don't rush him!

 

If there was a better option, this discussion wouldn't be happening. Hell, be glad the Sox didn't trade for Kevin Jarvis. The Cubs lit his ass up yesterday.

[VAfan]

My thoughts exactly, Im glad i read all the responses before posting. Until he corrects the walks problems, he should remain in the minors. There is not a need for Cotts right now, so why rush him? The last thing he needs is to lose his confidence because he was brought up too early,and shelled. 

 

Walks, schmalks. Don't you guys care that no one gets a hit off him?? 60 hits in 100 innings? Only 2 HR? 127 Ks?

 

Jimmy Gobble just came up for KC and threw 6 shut out innings in a game KC won. And he's given up almost a hit an inning in AA, plus 40 walks and a lot fewer Ks. It's a fantasy to think Cotts is going to get shelled.

[Bmr31]

Walks, schmalks.  Don't you guys care that no one gets a hit off him??  60 hits in 100 innings?  Only 2 HR?  127 Ks? 

 

Jimmy Gobble just came up for KC and threw 6 shut out innings in a game KC won.  And he's given up almost a hit an inning in AA, plus 40 walks and a lot fewer Ks.  It's a fantasy to think Cotts is going to get shelled.

ummm can you read? HE explained there is a huge difference in walking players once u get to the majors.

[VAfan]

Early on in the year, Cotts would get himself into trouble early but would generall pitch his way out of it. Lately, he has just been lights out.

 

I really don't think we need to overanalyze him. His walk rate has come down and that is what everyone is concerned about. He has had success in every aspect except for the walk rate and that has improved immensely. Could he have a bad game here and there? Sure......

 

But I think sometimes we tend to think too much. You know somewhere on some board, earlier this season some guy was posting something to this effect.....

 

There is no need to call up Willis from AA. Dontrelle needs more time and experience and it is too soon to expose him to Major League hitters. He was just in Single-A last year. Don't rush him!

 

If there was a better option, this discussion wouldn't be happening. Hell, be glad the Sox didn't trade for Kevin Jarvis. The Cubs lit his ass up yesterday.

 

Well said. We're certainly both on board regarding Cotts. I just hope the Sox see the light.

[Rex Hudler]

As far as comparisons to Buehrle, they are different yet similar. Cotts walks more, but also strikes out a helluva lot more. Yes, I saw Mark and was very impressed when he was here in Birmingham. He came from nowhere to being one of the most highly regarded prospects in the Minors all in one year. He started the Southern League All-Star Game, the Joint-AA All-Star Game and pitched in the Future's Game. he was the Southern League's Most Valuable Pitcher despite not being in the league the whole season. All of those are similarities with Cotts.

 

I also see some similarities in demeanor on the mound. Both seemed very cool and didn't let a bases loaded situation change what they tried to do. That focus allowed both of them to avoid big innings. Neither gave up many HR's.

 

I am not saying that Cotts will have the same success Buehrle had over his first two full seasons. I am saying that in a similar way, I believe Cotts is as ready as Buehrle was to make his Big League debut. Lots of things, both good and bad can happen next year and the year after that.

[Bmr31]

As far as comparisons to Buehrle, they are different yet similar.  Cotts walks more, but also strikes out a helluva lot more.  Yes, I saw Mark and was very impressed when he was here in Birmingham.  He came from nowhere to being one of the most highly regarded prospects in the Minors all in one year.  He started the Southern League All-Star Game, the Joint-AA All-Star Game and pitched in the Future's Game.  he was the Southern League's Most Valuable Pitcher despite not being in the league the whole season.  All of those are similarities with Cotts. 

 

I also see some similarities in demeanor on the mound.  Both seemed very cool and didn't let a bases loaded situation change what they tried to do.  That focus allowed both of them to avoid big innings.  Neither gave up many HR's. 

 

I am not saying that Cotts will have the same success Buehrle had over his first two full seasons.  I am saying that in a similar way, I believe Cotts is as ready as Buehrle was to make his Big League debut.  Lots of things, both good and bad can happen next year and the year after that.

Lets see, strikeouts mean nothing, walks mean a lot. I dotn care about strike outs. He needs to cut down on his walks before he can come to the majors. Its quite simple.

[Rex Hudler]

Walks, schmalks.  Don't you guys care that no one gets a hit off him??  60 hits in 100 innings?  Only 2 HR?  127 Ks? 

 

Jimmy Gobble just came up for KC and threw 6 shut out innings in a game KC won.  And he's given up almost a hit an inning in AA, plus 40 walks and a lot fewer Ks.  It's a fantasy to think Cotts is going to get shelled.

ummm can you read? HE explained there is a huge difference in walking players once u get to the majors.

umm, Bmr can you read? Cotts walk rate has fallen considerably. He is not the same pitcher he was in the first half of the season.

[Bmr31]

Walks, schmalks.  Don't you guys care that no one gets a hit off him??  60 hits in 100 innings?  Only 2 HR?  127 Ks? 

 

Jimmy Gobble just came up for KC and threw 6 shut out innings in a game KC won.  And he's given up almost a hit an inning in AA, plus 40 walks and a lot fewer Ks.  It's a fantasy to think Cotts is going to get shelled.

ummm can you read? HE explained there is a huge difference in walking players once u get to the majors.

umm, Bmr can you read? Cotts walk rate has fallen considerably. He is not the same pitcher he was in the first half of the season.

Well then nevermind, bring up the next Sandy Koufax immediately!!!

[upnorthsox]

Walks, schmalks.  Don't you guys care that no one gets a hit off him??  60 hits in 100 innings?  Only 2 HR?  127 Ks? 

 

Jimmy Gobble just came up for KC and threw 6 shut out innings in a game KC won.  And he's given up almost a hit an inning in AA, plus 40 walks and a lot fewer Ks.  It's a fantasy to think Cotts is going to get shelled.

ummm can you read? HE explained there is a huge difference in walking players once u get to the majors.

umm, Bmr can you read? Cotts walk rate has fallen considerably. He is not the same pitcher he was in the first half of the season.

Well then nevermind, bring up the next Sandy Koufax immediately!!!

Sounds good to me, as long as it's not Wright pitching I'll be happy.

[Rex Hudler]

Walks, schmalks.  Don't you guys care that no one gets a hit off him??  60 hits in 100 innings?  Only 2 HR?  127 Ks? 

 

Jimmy Gobble just came up for KC and threw 6 shut out innings in a game KC won.  And he's given up almost a hit an inning in AA, plus 40 walks and a lot fewer Ks.  It's a fantasy to think Cotts is going to get shelled.

ummm can you read? HE explained there is a huge difference in walking players once u get to the majors.

umm, Bmr can you read? Cotts walk rate has fallen considerably. He is not the same pitcher he was in the first half of the season.

Well then nevermind, bring up the next Sandy Koufax immediately!!!

You are an idiot Bmr........ There is no question about it.....

[Bmr31]

Walks, schmalks.  Don't you guys care that no one gets a hit off him??  60 hits in 100 innings?  Only 2 HR?  127 Ks? 

 

Jimmy Gobble just came up for KC and threw 6 shut out innings in a game KC won.  And he's given up almost a hit an inning in AA, plus 40 walks and a lot fewer Ks.  It's a fantasy to think Cotts is going to get shelled.

ummm can you read? HE explained there is a huge difference in walking players once u get to the majors.

umm, Bmr can you read? Cotts walk rate has fallen considerably. He is not the same pitcher he was in the first half of the season.

Well then nevermind, bring up the next Sandy Koufax immediately!!!

You are an idiot Bmr........ There is no question about it.....

Was that a compliment?

[VAfan]

I am not saying that Cotts will have the same success Buehrle had over his first two full seasons. I am saying that in a similar way, I believe Cotts is as ready as Buehrle was to make his Big League debut. Lots of things, both good and bad can happen next year and the year after that.

 

Exactly! In 4 or 5 starts, Neal Cotts would be like a sneak attack on opposing hitters. By the time they start to figure him out, he's gone.

[Bmr31]

I am not saying that Cotts will have the same success Buehrle had over his first two full seasons. I am saying that in a similar way, I believe Cotts is as ready as Buehrle was to make his Big League debut. Lots of things, both good and bad can happen next year and the year after that.

 

Exactly! In 4 or 5 starts, Neal Cotts would be like a sneak attack on opposing hitters. By the time they start to figure him out, he's gone.

This is baseball, Not the middle east.

[witesoxfan]

Can I just make light of something?

 

Last year, when Anaheim won the World Series and had an incredibly good year, a much worse pitcher, one Jim Parque, beat the Angels.

 

This year, Anaheim is much more down to earth and they are mediocre. I'm sure Neal Cotts could beat Anaheim.

[CubKilla]

Walks, schmalks.  Don't you guys care that no one gets a hit off him??  60 hits in 100 innings?  Only 2 HR?  127 Ks? 

 

Jimmy Gobble just came up for KC and threw 6 shut out innings in a game KC won.  And he's given up almost a hit an inning in AA, plus 40 walks and a lot fewer Ks.  It's a fantasy to think Cotts is going to get shelled.

It's also fantasy to think that the numbers you just posted will translate the same way in the ML's as they do in AA.

[Bmr31]

Walks, schmalks.  Don't you guys care that no one gets a hit off him??  60 hits in 100 innings?  Only 2 HR?  127 Ks? 

 

Jimmy Gobble just came up for KC and threw 6 shut out innings in a game KC won.  And he's given up almost a hit an inning in AA, plus 40 walks and a lot fewer Ks.  It's a fantasy to think Cotts is going to get shelled.

It's also fantasy to think that the numbers you just posted will translate the same way in the ML's as they do in AA.

Well said, thank you.

[VAfan]

QUOTE (VAfan @ Aug 8 2003, 12:51 PM)

QUOTE 

I am not saying that Cotts will have the same success Buehrle had over his first two full seasons. I am saying that in a similar way, I believe Cotts is as ready as Buehrle was to make his Big League debut. Lots of things, both good and bad can happen next year and the year after that.

 

 

 

 

Exactly! In 4 or 5 starts, Neal Cotts would be like a sneak attack on opposing hitters. By the time they start to figure him out, he's gone. 

 

This is baseball, Not the middle east. 

 

But if Jimmy Gobble can do it, and Dontrelle Willis, and Mark Buehrle, and a lot of other pitchers who have come up late and won a few games (remember Kip Wells?), there is no reason to believe Neal Cotts can't do it. His minor league numbers are probably better than most of those guys and I'm serious when I say by the time they figure him out, he'll be gone. Just think how many first time starters the Sox have had trouble with.

 

I don't understand why teams don't do this more often. Unknown pitchers have an advantage their first time around the league. After that, if they've got it, they'll survive. Cotts should be good on both accounts. We know what Wright is giving us and we can't continue to afford those losses.

[Rex Hudler]

Walks, schmalks.  Don't you guys care that no one gets a hit off him??  60 hits in 100 innings?  Only 2 HR?  127 Ks? 

 

Jimmy Gobble just came up for KC and threw 6 shut out innings in a game KC won.  And he's given up almost a hit an inning in AA, plus 40 walks and a lot fewer Ks.  It's a fantasy to think Cotts is going to get shelled.

It's also fantasy to think that the numbers you just posted will translate the same way in the ML's as they do in AA.

Who the f*** cares if his numbers don't translate as well in the Majors? No one is claiming he is the next coming. We're looking for a 5th starter, not Bob Gibson! Just someone to give us a chance to win.

 

Since you and Bmr know so much, who is a better alternative?? You want Porzio back? Rauch who just came off the DL? Adkins?

 

I have no problem if they stick with Danny Wright. But if they don't, the Sox don't have a better option right now.

[LDF]

the sox may not have a choice but to go with what they have.

 

no one couldn't have predicted that wright would bomb.

 

cotts at this time may be mlb ready, whether the success he has will be determine by this season

or maybe next, only time will tell............... but we do not have anyone who can be the 5th starter

right now.

[upnorthsox]

Well I care if they put Wright out there, esp. vs Anaheim. Besides, Cotts is the only real alternative inhouse so it's better to find out now if he can handle it while we still have time to make a trade.