VAfan Posted August 9, 2003 Author Share Posted August 9, 2003 To my way of thinking, bringing up Cotts offers nothing but upside for the Sox. If Cotts is beaten, it is hard to say our chances would have been any better with winless Danny Wright. If Cotts wins, not only have we won an important game, but we've begun to learn about and establish a second lefty starter for our rotation. And if Cotts knocks em dead like he's been doing in AA, we could have a valuable addition to our postseason roster. In addition, it opens up a chance for Danny Wright to bring his hard stuff out of the pen, where we need another righty option behind Tom Gordon if Koch doesn't get it together. Seems like potential plusses all the way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 I agree with southsider on this one. Ive been saying for a while that those walks would kill Cotts. I may be wrong but I have a hard time seeing Cotts do anything until he settles down a bit. And during a close race like this, I dont want to put any games on the line unneccesarily to test out the arms of the future. For all its worth, I think we should go four man rotation the rest of the way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Altho I will add, if we do go five, make it Cotts. He cant possibly be worse than Wright or Porzio... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 I agree with southsider on this one. Ive been saying for a while that those walks would kill Cotts. I may be wrong but I have a hard time seeing Cotts do anything until he settles down a bit. And during a close race like this, I dont want to put any games on the line unneccesarily to test out the arms of the future. For all its worth, I think we should go four man rotation the rest of the way... Do you people not read every post? What part of the fact that Cotts walk rate is already way down do you not understand? I even posted numbers showing how his walks aren't the same as earlier in the year. What does it take, four years of fewer walks to make you guys look past what he did in the first half of the year?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Do you people not read every post? What part of the fact that Cotts walk rate is already way down do you not understand? I even posted numbers showing how his walks aren't the same as earlier in the year. What does it take, four years of fewer walks to make you guys look past what he did in the first half of the year?? I understand that he walks a lot of guys, like way many.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 I understand that he walks a lot of guys, like way many.......... Define way many........ And how many has he been walking lately? What is too many? Enlighten us, oh wise one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Define way many........ And how many has he been walking lately? What is too many? Enlighten us, oh wise one. I shall enlighten you at the proper moment, and only at that moment.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 By the way, I like Tara reid quite a lot......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BridgeportHeather Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 I understand that he walks a lot of guys, like way many.......... He does. But, he doesn't allow many of those walks to score. His composure is something to admire. His composure, as well as his pitching location, help make him an adequate #5 when we need him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 He does. But, he doesn't allow many of those walks to score. His composure is something to admire. His composure, as well as his pitching location, help make him an adequate #5 when we need him. adequate # 5 class AA ? sure..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BridgeportHeather Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 adequate # 5 class AA ? sure..... No, he's better than a #5 class AA pitcher! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 No, he's better than a #5 class AA pitcher! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Ok, I've read this whole thread with interest. Cotts' walk total is a concern, for sure. Those walks, to me, translate into a lack of command. Now, having said that, his bb/ip has decrease lately. Therefore, he may now have the necessary command, which he lacked earlier. I haven't seen the guy pitch, so take it for what it's worth, but I think it just may prove to be worthwhile to give Cotts a start or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 No, he's better than a #5 class AA pitcher! Ignore him Heather, he is an idiot just trying to get me riled up. From this point on, I'll allow his posts to show his idiocy. They do the job quite well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Ignore him Heather, he is an idiot just trying to get me riled up. From this point on, I'll allow his posts to show his idiocy. They do the job quite well. Thanks for noticing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 No I dont read every post. And I dont care how good Cotts is. Were in a close division race and Id prefer we not toss any games away to see how good some kids gonna be. He can try out next year. And also, I dont care if he doesnt allow many walks to score. MLB hitters dont blow opportunities like that. They will make him pay for each and every walk... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 No I dont read every post. And I dont care how good Cotts is. Were in a close division race and Id prefer we not toss any games away to see how good some kids gonna be. He can try out next year. And also, I dont care if he doesnt allow many walks to score. MLB hitters dont blow opportunities like that. They will make him pay for each and every walk... then we shouldn't pitch botch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 I never advocated Botch pitching. The only time Koch should see the mound is when were losing 10-0. Not when were winning 10-0 tho because thats still not outta reach for Koch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 As far as comparisons to Buehrle, they are different yet similar. Cotts walks more, but also strikes out a helluva lot more. Yes, I saw Mark and was very impressed when he was here in Birmingham. He came from nowhere to being one of the most highly regarded prospects in the Minors all in one year. He started the Southern League All-Star Game, the Joint-AA All-Star Game and pitched in the Future's Game. he was the Southern League's Most Valuable Pitcher despite not being in the league the whole season. All of those are similarities with Cotts. I also see some similarities in demeanor on the mound. Both seemed very cool and didn't let a bases loaded situation change what they tried to do. That focus allowed both of them to avoid big innings. Neither gave up many HR's. I am not saying that Cotts will have the same success Buehrle had over his first two full seasons. I am saying that in a similar way, I believe Cotts is as ready as Buehrle was to make his Big League debut. Lots of things, both good and bad can happen next year and the year after that. Lets see, strikeouts mean nothing, walks mean a lot. I dotn care about strike outs. He needs to cut down on his walks before he can come to the majors. Its quite simple. Are you Brian West in disguise or something? Strikeouts are huge in gauging how good of a prospect a pitcher is. When you strike someone out, the pitcher reduces the risk for errors, hits, anything. If you strike someone out, less bad things will happen, in layman's terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Thats a good point cerb but look at Buehrle. As much as I dislike him, he hardly strikes out anyone and hes still a darn good pitcher... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 To be a good pitcher, strikeouts are not a prerequisite. But to say they are unimportant is stupid. Strikeouts are very important when evaluating a pitcher, but they are not the only way to evaluate. Look at it this way. Strikeouts are good and help you win, but it is possible to win without lots of them. Either way, to say they are unimportant, is uninformed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 A 4 man rotation is not an option. With the screwy off days the SOX have, you still need 8 starts from the 5th man. The starts will break down as follows: MB = 10 BC = 10 EL = 10 JG = 9 5th = 8 There's only 1 question to ask: Who gives you a better chance at winning those 8 starts? Danny Wright or Neal Cotts? The league is very familiar with Danny & well .. he sucks .. this year. So my vote goes for bringing up Cotts. There's 4 starts for the 5th before Sept callups can shore up the BP. I have little to no confidence that Wright can win 1 of them. And please, Danny's control is worse than Cott's right now. JG,EL v OAK BC,5th,MB,JG @ ANA EL,BC,5th @ TEX MB,JG,EL v ANA BC,5th,MB,JG v TEX xx,EL,BC,MB - @ NYY JG,5th,EL,xx - @ DET MB,BC,xx v BOS EL,JG,MB v CLE BC,5th,EL,JG v MIN MB,BC,5th,xx @ BOS EL,MB,BC @ MIN JG,5th,EL v KC MB,BC,JG v NYY 5th,EL,MB,BC @ KC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 I see the 5th starter needed 6 times. That would require both Loaiza to go on 3 days rest twice and Bart once. The time when both would go on three days rest, they would then go on five days rest in the start immediately following due to off days. Esteban would likely go on 3 days rest one more time two weeks later in mid-September. If they choose not to have Loaiza go on three days rest the second time, the 5th starter would be needed a 7th time. I don't see the 8 you are talking about, and I also certainly do not see the 3 or 4 times I have heard in some of the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Since you and Bmr know so much, who is a better alternative?? You want Porzio back? Rauch who just came off the DL? Adkins? Look Rex..... if the White Sox go with Cotts to round out the 5 man rotation, that is fine with me. However, and Roman of all people pointed this out in an earlier post, the White Sox are now serious contenders in the AL Central race. I do not desire nor do I want the White Sox embarking on the "Can Cotts Pitch in the ML's" Experiment. Not at this point in the game. No way. Unless Cotts is as certain to be successful as it was believed Prior was to be (and is) in '02, than I do not want to see NC anywhere close to a White Sox uniform. The White Sox still have one of the lowest payrolls in baseball and adequate "5th starter" pitching is available over the waiver wire. Crowds are showing up at USCF. Let's see if JR is a man of his word and rewards Sox fans for showing up. I doubt it. Welcome to Chicago NC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Since you and Bmr know so much, who is a better alternative?? You want Porzio back? Rauch who just came off the DL? Adkins? Look Rex..... if the White Sox go with Cotts to round out the 5 man rotation, that is fine with me. However, and Roman of all people pointed this out in an earlier post, the White Sox are now serious contenders in the AL Central race. I do not desire nor do I want the White Sox embarking on the "Can Cotts Pitch in the ML's" Experiment. Not at this point in the game. No way. Unless Cotts is as certain to be successful as it was believed Prior was to be (and is) in '02, than I do not want to see NC anywhere close to a White Sox uniform. The White Sox still have one of the lowest payrolls in baseball and adequate "5th starter" pitching is available over the waiver wire. Crowds are showing up at USCF. Let's see if JR is a man of his word and rewards Sox fans for showing up. I doubt it. Welcome to Chicago NC I think Cotts would be as good as an adequate 5th starter. A common trait of an adequate 5th starter is inconsistency. That is what makes him a #5 not a # 2 or #3. I understand your fear of throwing a rookie into a pennant race and respect that. But I get tired of people stating this reason or that reason that he would not be successful when they don't know what they are talking about. They look at some numbers on a sheet and assume they know all by reading them and sorry, but that is not possible when evaluating someone for the short term. Can you do that if you are trying to evaulate a guy for next season? Perhaps so... If the Sox want to use someone else, then I am fine with it. But other teams have gotten huge contributions out of rookies, so why can't the Sox. Hell, the Angels had John Lackey pitch Game 7 of the World Series last year. Dontrelle Willis wasn't can't miss when he was brought up. Brandon Webb has been huge for Arizona. When your chances of winning the game started by your #5 guy are only 50/50, why worry so much? It's not like anyone is advocating making Cotts your ace. So again, if you want to go with another starter the fine. But let's not act like we know that Cotts is not ready based on numbers he put up in April and May. That is all I ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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