fathom Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 April 13th: After throwing a stressful career-high 34 pitches the night before, Ozzie has Sale start the 9th inning with a 3 run lead against the A's. Sale struggles and can't get an out, and Sox lose in extras. May 6th: With an open base in a tie game against King Felix and the Mariners, Ozzie lets Humber pitch to the only hot hitter on the Mariners at the time (Justin Smoak). Smoak doubles, and even though the Sox tie the score the next inning, the Sox go on to lose on a walkoff single. May 20th: After Santos blows a one run lead with 2 outs in the 9th against the Dodgers, Ozzie allows Santos to start the 10th. Santos clearly has nothing on his fastball, and the Dodgers smack him around the park for an easy extra inning win. May 28th: This game saw two huge blunders. First, in the 7th inning of that game, Ozzie (or Omar) has the 2nd baseman covering second on a steal attempt by one of the slowest base runners in baseball instead of staying in position with C. Patterson (a lefty hitter) up. Patterson hits a routine grounder to where the 2nd baseman should have been, and it goes for a hit. Toronto ends up taking a lead after that inning. That game goes to extras, and with a LHP on the mound and runner on 3rd with one out, Ozzie lets Dunn bat instead of Quentin. Sox lose June 4th: Against the Tigers, with 2 outs and man on third, Ozzie lets Crain pitch to maybe the 2nd best hitter on the planet in Miguel Cabrera. A home run into the right field bullpen later, the Sox lose an important game to the Tigers. June 10th: As Sergio Santos is one out away from a win against the A's, he has a complete meltdown. He allows 4 straight batters to reach with 2 outs, and clearly has no offspeed pitch and his fastball is straight as an arrow. With AJP begging Ozzie to pull him, Santos stays in the game to allowed a go-ahead 3 run double to Scott Sizemore. June 24th: In a scoreless game against the Nationals, Ozzie allows our worst bullpen pitcher (Bruney) to pitch to the red-hot Michael Morse with an open base and two outs. He homers, and despite Teahen's heroics, we end up losing the game in extras. July 17th: With the Sox looking to build momentum after the ASB, Ozzie leaves Humber in one batter too long to face VMart with runners on 2nd and 3rd, 2 outs. VMart singles in both, and Sox go on to lose by one. July 26th: In another important game against Tigers, Ozzie leaves Peavy in to start the 6th inning when the Sox are up 2-1. Not only does Peavy allow 3 runs to score, but Ozzie leaves him in to face 9 batters that inning. Sox lose 5-4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 5, 2011 -> 12:30 AM) April 13th: After throwing a stressful career-high 34 pitches the night before, Ozzie has Sale start the 9th inning with a 3 run lead against the A's. Sale struggles and can't get an out, and Sox lose in extras. May 6th: With an open base in a tie game against King Felix and the Mariners, Ozzie lets Humber pitch to the only hot hitter on the Mariners at the time (Justin Smoak). Smoak doubles, and even though the Sox tie the score the next inning, the Sox go on to lose on a walkoff single. I was at that game May 20th: After Santos blows a one run lead with 2 outs in the 9th against the Dodgers, Ozzie allows Santos to start the 10th. Santos clearly has nothing on his fastball, and the Dodgers smack him around the park for an easy extra inning win. May 28th: This game saw two huge blunders. First, in the 7th inning of that game, Ozzie (or Omar) has the 2nd baseman covering second on a steal attempt by one of the slowest base runners in baseball instead of staying in position with C. Patterson (a lefty hitter) up. Patterson hits a routine grounder to where the 2nd baseman should have been, and it goes for a hit. Toronto ends up taking a lead after that inning. That game goes to extras, and with a LHP on the mound and runner on 3rd with one out, Ozzie lets Dunn bat instead of Quentin. Sox lose June 4th: Against the Tigers, with 2 outs and man on third, Ozzie lets Crain pitch to maybe the 2nd best hitter on the planet in Miguel Cabrera. A home run into the right field bullpen later, the Sox lose an important game to the Tigers. June 10th: As Sergio Santos is one out away from a win against the A's, he has a complete meltdown. He allows 4 straight batters to reach with 2 outs, and clearly has no offspeed pitch and his fastball is straight as an arrow. With AJP begging Ozzie to pull him, Santos stays in the game to allowed a go-ahead 3 run double to Scott Sizemore. June 24th: In a scoreless game against the Nationals, Ozzie allows our worst bullpen pitcher (Bruney) to pitch to the red-hot Michael Morse with an open base and two outs. He homers, and despite Teahen's heroics, we end up losing the game in extras. July 17th: With the Sox looking to build momentum after the ASB, Ozzie leaves Humber in one batter too long to face VMart with runners on 2nd and 3rd, 2 outs. VMart singles in both, and Sox go on to lose by one. July 26th: In another important game against Tigers, Ozzie leaves Peavy in to start the 6th inning when the Sox are up 2-1. Not only does Peavy allow 3 runs to score, but Ozzie leaves him in to face 9 batters that inning. Sox lose 5-4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 This is excellent, fathom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sir Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Good work. I'd throw in a headbang, but this is just too sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I was at the June 4 game. The Cabrera HR was not unexpected. Jackson ran out of gas in the 6th (he had over 120 pitches) and the bullpen attempted to finish with very little run support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmmmbeeer Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 QUOTE (knightni @ Aug 4, 2011 -> 07:15 PM) I was at the June 4 game. The Cabrera HR was not unexpected. Jackson ran out of gas in the 6th (he had over 120 pitches) and the bullpen attempted to finish with very little run support. My family and I were at that game too...we make the trek to Chicago for one game a year and, unfortunately, this is the one we chose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 QUOTE (mmmmmbeeer @ Aug 4, 2011 -> 09:51 PM) My family and I were at that game too...we make the trek to Chicago for one game a year and, unfortunately, this is the one we chose. We sat in a parking lot for 40 minutes during a torrential downpour, just to watch that awful game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 4, 2011 -> 06:30 PM) April 13th: After throwing a stressful career-high 34 pitches the night before, Ozzie has Sale start the 9th inning with a 3 run lead against the A's. Sale struggles and can't get an out, and Sox lose in extras. Don't forget the part where he put Thornton in with men on base despite the fact that he had just been taken out of the closer role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) Don't forget April 11th against Oakland. With a 1-0 lead in the 9th, Oakland had a man on 2nd and 1 out when Juan Pierre dropped a fly ball in the corner on the warning track. Or April 8th against Tampa Bay. Up 7-4 in the 9th, only to completely collapse and give up 5 unearned runs after another Juan Pierre fielding disaster. Edited August 5, 2011 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 5, 2011 -> 02:43 AM) Don't forget April 11th against Oakland. With a 1-0 lead in the 9th, Oakland had a man on 2nd and 1 out when Juan Pierre dropped a fly ball in the corner on the warning track. Or April 8th against Tampa Bay. Up 7-4 in the 9th, only to completely collapse and give up 5 unearned runs after another Juan Pierre fielding disaster. Damn, I forgot how he pulled Buehrle when he was cruising in that 1-0 Oakland game, and then he used that BS excuse that they were trying to limit Buehrle's pitches this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 4, 2011 -> 08:54 PM) Damn, I forgot how he pulled Buehrle when he was cruising in that 1-0 Oakland game, and then he used that BS excuse that they were trying to limit Buehrle's pitches this year. I was at that game with a pretty large group of friends. We didn't know whether to be more angry at Ozzie pulling Buehrle (especially for Thornton) or Pierre dropping the fly ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 4, 2011 -> 06:30 PM) April 13th: After throwing a stressful career-high 34 pitches the night before, Ozzie has Sale start the 9th inning with a 3 run lead against the A's. Sale struggles and can't get an out, and Sox lose in extras. May 6th: With an open base in a tie game against King Felix and the Mariners, Ozzie lets Humber pitch to the only hot hitter on the Mariners at the time (Justin Smoak). Smoak doubles, and even though the Sox tie the score the next inning, the Sox go on to lose on a walkoff single. This board would have ripped Ozzie for not letting Humber finish. Armchair managing at it's finest. May 20th: After Santos blows a one run lead with 2 outs in the 9th against the Dodgers, Ozzie allows Santos to start the 10th. Santos clearly has nothing on his fastball, and the Dodgers smack him around the park for an easy extra inning win. May 28th: This game saw two huge blunders. First, in the 7th inning of that game, Ozzie (or Omar) has the 2nd baseman covering second on a steal attempt by one of the slowest base runners in baseball instead of staying in position with C. Patterson (a lefty hitter) up. Patterson hits a routine grounder to where the 2nd baseman should have been, and it goes for a hit. Toronto ends up taking a lead after that inning. That game goes to extras, and with a LHP on the mound and runner on 3rd with one out, Ozzie lets Dunn bat instead of Quentin. Sox lose June 4th: Against the Tigers, with 2 outs and man on third, Ozzie lets Crain pitch to maybe the 2nd best hitter on the planet in Miguel Cabrera. A home run into the right field bullpen later, the Sox lose an important game to the Tigers. June 10th: As Sergio Santos is one out away from a win against the A's, he has a complete meltdown. He allows 4 straight batters to reach with 2 outs, and clearly has no offspeed pitch and his fastball is straight as an arrow. With AJP begging Ozzie to pull him, Santos stays in the game to allowed a go-ahead 3 run double to Scott Sizemore. June 24th: In a scoreless game against the Nationals, Ozzie allows our worst bullpen pitcher (Bruney) to pitch to the red-hot Michael Morse with an open base and two outs. He homers, and despite Teahen's heroics, we end up losing the game in extras. You're suggesting intentionally walking MICHAEL FREAKING MORSE?!?! IBB's are the worst. They just put extra runners on (not to mention in a TIE BALL GAME). All you had to say was Brian Bruney was pitching in a tie ball game in the 8th July 17th: With the Sox looking to build momentum after the ASB, Ozzie leaves Humber in one batter too long to face VMart with runners on 2nd and 3rd, 2 outs. VMart singles in both, and Sox go on to lose by one. July 26th: In another important game against Tigers, Ozzie leaves Peavy in to start the 6th inning when the Sox are up 2-1. Not only does Peavy allow 3 runs to score, but Ozzie leaves him in to face 9 batters that inning. Sox lose 5-4 I agree with most, but I have so many issues with threads like this. Simply put, Ozzie knows his guys much better than we do. It happens quite often where guys come to the manager and say they need a day off because they don't feel right/we're out drinking the night before or whatever else. Sometimes every guy isn't available. The point is though that you can't manage every game like it's game 7 of the world series. Seriously you could name 10 games with any team in the playoff hunt where you do this simple cause and effect stuff and its simply is much more complicated than how it's being spelled out. Most of these moves are trying to save pen arms. And if this team could hit, a lot of the "he left a pitcher in 1 batter too long and gave up the go ahead run" arguments could be erased if they hit. Also, I think I was drunk for like 6 of these games...wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 Paint, the May 6th game wasn't about leaving Humber in too long. It was about pitching to Smoak with an open base when he was on a tear at the moment. And as for Morse, he was one of the hottest hitters in baseball when we played the Nationals. Also, if you go back to the game threads for these games, this is not hindsight managing at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 The 4-18 stretch, the games head to head against the Twins (as well as starting out 0-5 against DET) and the most recent Sunday/Monday games against the Red Sox and Yankees. That's what killed this team...largely. That and Dunn/Rios/Beckham/Morel/Pierre (first two months). Last year, it was easy to point to the Jenks blown save and Thome walkoff against Thornton as the two key big blows to the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 5, 2011 -> 04:53 AM) The 4-18 stretch, the games head to head against the Twins (as well as starting out 0-5 against DET) and the most recent Sunday/Monday games against the Red Sox and Yankees. That's what killed this team...largely. That and Dunn/Rios/Beckham/Morel/Pierre (first two months). Last year, it was easy to point to the Jenks blown save and Thome walkoff against Thornton as the two key big blows to the Sox. If you are going to start as badly as the Sox did (4-18? Wow) you better counter that with an 18-4 at some point or at least a 10-game winning streak to erase the bad feelings and let the team and fans know you might have something. Even when we were playing pretty well, winning most series, we still had plenty of irrational f*** up moments to show we were not very good as well as prolonged bouts of not hitting. Edited August 5, 2011 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) We were 9 games under last year as well, but that 26-5 stretch really evened things out. We've been between 5 and E for almost 2 1/2 months now. Just stuck in neutral but going backwards on a steep hill. Last year, at this same point in the season, we were 62-47 and probably in first place still (for a fleeting moment). Edited August 5, 2011 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 4, 2011 -> 06:30 PM) April 13th: After throwing a stressful career-high 34 pitches the night before, Ozzie has Sale start the 9th inning with a 3 run lead against the A's. Sale struggles and can't get an out, and Sox lose in extras. May 6th: With an open base in a tie game against King Felix and the Mariners, Ozzie lets Humber pitch to the only hot hitter on the Mariners at the time (Justin Smoak). Smoak doubles, and even though the Sox tie the score the next inning, the Sox go on to lose on a walkoff single. May 20th: After Santos blows a one run lead with 2 outs in the 9th against the Dodgers, Ozzie allows Santos to start the 10th. Santos clearly has nothing on his fastball, and the Dodgers smack him around the park for an easy extra inning win. May 28th: This game saw two huge blunders. First, in the 7th inning of that game, Ozzie (or Omar) has the 2nd baseman covering second on a steal attempt by one of the slowest base runners in baseball instead of staying in position with C. Patterson (a lefty hitter) up. Patterson hits a routine grounder to where the 2nd baseman should have been, and it goes for a hit. Toronto ends up taking a lead after that inning. That game goes to extras, and with a LHP on the mound and runner on 3rd with one out, Ozzie lets Dunn bat instead of Quentin. Sox lose June 4th: Against the Tigers, with 2 outs and man on third, Ozzie lets Crain pitch to maybe the 2nd best hitter on the planet in Miguel Cabrera. A home run into the right field bullpen later, the Sox lose an important game to the Tigers. June 10th: As Sergio Santos is one out away from a win against the A's, he has a complete meltdown. He allows 4 straight batters to reach with 2 outs, and clearly has no offspeed pitch and his fastball is straight as an arrow. With AJP begging Ozzie to pull him, Santos stays in the game to allowed a go-ahead 3 run double to Scott Sizemore. June 24th: In a scoreless game against the Nationals, Ozzie allows our worst bullpen pitcher (Bruney) to pitch to the red-hot Michael Morse with an open base and two outs. He homers, and despite Teahen's heroics, we end up losing the game in extras. July 17th: With the Sox looking to build momentum after the ASB, Ozzie leaves Humber in one batter too long to face VMart with runners on 2nd and 3rd, 2 outs. VMart singles in both, and Sox go on to lose by one. July 26th: In another important game against Tigers, Ozzie leaves Peavy in to start the 6th inning when the Sox are up 2-1. Not only does Peavy allow 3 runs to score, but Ozzie leaves him in to face 9 batters that inning. Sox lose 5-4 Cool story, brah Just kidding, it's 162 games and we can disect every loss on any team and on many of them you can find key moments where a manager makes or doesn't make a move that eventually costs his team the game.It happens to EVERY manager in basdball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Nice job, I remember watching some of those Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Fathom is always concentrating on the negative, haha. Still am sensitive to that "audit" we did where it listed who posted more frequently in Sox losses. My only explanation is that Friday night games we suck and those are always on at a decent time but not Saturday/Sunday games (Asia time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 This post of mine got buried in another thread but I'll put it here too: If you woke up from a 40 year coma today and was forced to watch 2 seasons of White Sox baseball, this year's and one season from the Bevington era, would you be able to determine from watching the games who the better manager is supposed to be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Aug 5, 2011 -> 12:33 AM) I agree with most, but I have so many issues with threads like this. Simply put, Ozzie knows his guys much better than we do. It happens quite often where guys come to the manager and say they need a day off because they don't feel right/we're out drinking the night before or whatever else. Sometimes every guy isn't available. The point is though that you can't manage every game like it's game 7 of the world series. Seriously you could name 10 games with any team in the playoff hunt where you do this simple cause and effect stuff and its simply is much more complicated than how it's being spelled out. Most of these moves are trying to save pen arms. And if this team could hit, a lot of the "he left a pitcher in 1 batter too long and gave up the go ahead run" arguments could be erased if they hit. Also, I think I was drunk for like 6 of these games...wow. Problem is...I don't think Ozzie knows his guys better than we do any more. The use of guys like Rios, Peavy, and Humber has pretty well demonstrated that to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Why not pick 9 games where Dunn struck out with men on Why not pick 9 games that Rios went 0 for 4 Why not pick 9 games that Pierre sucked Why not pick 9 games that the bullpen blew in April Why not pick 9 games that were lost to injury lots of ways to blame everyone for this season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Aug 5, 2011 -> 08:48 AM) Why not pick 9 games where Dunn struck out with men on Why not pick 9 games that Rios went 0 for 4 Why not pick 9 games that Pierre sucked Why not pick 9 games that the bullpen blew in April Why not pick 9 games that were lost to injury lots of ways to blame everyone for this season Because it's a lot easier to change managers than it is to change players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 So we're assigning the most blame to what's most easily replaceable? Oh, I see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Aug 5, 2011 -> 08:50 AM) So we're assigning the most blame to what's most easily replaceable? Oh, I see. I don't think anyone's assigned the "Most" blame to the easily replaceable guy. You say that like this site hasn't come down hard on Pierre, Dunn, Rios constantly. If Ozzie Guillen is losing games and his team isn't responding to him, then he shouldn't be here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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