Sox Trade Busts vs. Other Team

[Quin]

Getting the #1 picks two years in a row shouldn't ever be considered "successful" for a GM.

 

I know you two fight, but you should have been able to get the sarcasm there.

 

Unless you we're just reiterating his point and I feel stupid.

 

Also, if we're going off GM success, then Kenny is...average. Like this team has been.

[Dick Allen]

AA is easily my favorite GM right now. He gets great young cost-controlled talent by buying low. Guys like Escobar and Rasmus aren't huge gambles because they're cheap to begin with. If they fail, then so be it, you didn't spend a fortune. But if they succeed, then your net return is so much greater than acquiring a guy making $10+ million by trade or signing said player.

 

In addition, guys like Escobar and Rasmus have shown that they can play at a high level before. They're not prospects, they were guys who had off years due to circumstances out of their control (in this case, it was their managers having a problem with them). A change in environment can mean a lot for a young player who doesn't get along with the man in charge and it's not like you lose your ability to play baseball in your mid 20s.

It would be interesting to see how he would operate if he were running a team that had expectations to win.

[Jordan4life_2007]

It would be interesting to see how he would operate if he were running a team that had expectations to win.

 

So his baseball I.Q. deteriorates if he's running a team that has "expectations?" Lack of expectations certainly hasn't handicapped Tampa the last 4 years.

[southsider2k5]

So his baseball I.Q. deteriorates if he's running a team that has "expectations?" Lack of expectations certainly hasn't handicapped Tampa the last 4 years.

 

It sure did with Billy Beane.

[Rowand44]

AA's moves look great on paper but it certainly doesn't mean all of them are going to end up being fantastic. Until he wins something, it's impossible to call him the best gm in the game, just doesn't make sense.

[Jordan4life_2007]

AA's moves look great on paper but it certainly doesn't mean all of them are going to end up being fantastic. Until he wins something, it's impossible to call him the best gm in the game, just doesn't make sense.

 

No, we've seen enough. If I was a DA, I'd have more than enough sufficient evidence to present my case to the grand jury. We'd no doubt go to trial, in which case I'd be going up against Andrew Friedman's lawyer.

[Kyyle23]

No, we've seen enough. If I was a DA, I'd have more than enough sufficient evidence to present my case to the grand jury. We'd no doubt go to trial, in which case I'd be going up against Andrew Friedman's lawyer.

 

If you were a DA, you would probably neglect something procedural because you were out drinking too late, and it would go to mistrial

[Steve9347]

No, we've seen enough. If I was a DA, I'd have more than enough sufficient evidence to present my case to the grand jury. We'd no doubt go to trial, in which case I'd be going up against Andrew Friedman's lawyer.

The Wells trade was exceptional, however, you act like Frank Francisco is good, which he really hasn't been, and you act like Brandon Morrow is some All-Star, when he really hasn't taken the next step and is approaching 28.

 

I love Lawrie, but he's quite unproven and raped the PCL. We'll see how well that translates to the bigs. You say he's already helping the big club? I say he's played 3 f***ing games so far. Also, I don't know how you can call trading Marcum last offseason as "selling high", when the Blue Jays and their staff could certainly use a guy with a 1.13 WHIP and a 3:1 k:bb rate in their rotation.

 

You post deals as certain wins where the jury is still very much out... the Wells deal was amazing, the rest is all up for debate still.

 

EDIT: OH AND OBVIOUSLY THE COLBY RASMUS TRADE WAS AWESOME f*** ME

Edited August 8, 2011 by Steve9347

[Jordan4life_2007]

The Wells trade was exceptional, however, you act like Frank Francisco is good, which he really hasn't been, and you act like Brandon Morrow is some All-Star, when he really hasn't taken the next step and is approaching 28.

 

I love Lawrie, but he's quite unproven and raped the PCL. We'll see how well that translates to the bigs. You say he's already helping the big club? I say he's played 3 f***ing games so far. Also, I don't know how you can call trading Marcum last offseason as "selling high", when the Blue Jays and their staff could certainly use a guy with a 1.13 WHIP and a 3:1 k:bb rate in their rotation.

 

You post deals as certain wins where the jury is still very much out... the Wells deal was amazing, the rest is all up for debate still.

 

Ahhh, but you make it black and White. Francisco was a reach, as I didn't realize he was a FA after the year when I made that post. So I'll let that one go. But Brandon League for Brandon Morrow? C'mon now. Brandon Morrow is easily a #3 who, when is on his game, can shut down any offense in baseball. He's cheap and under control for the next two years. Brandon League, a reliever, is making the same amount of money and is under control for only one more year. AA took Jack Zdgsdfgfgf back to the shed and beat him with a hockey stick.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Jordan4life

[LittleHurt05]

AA's moves look great on paper but it certainly doesn't mean all of them are going to end up being fantastic. Until he wins something, it's impossible to call him the best gm in the game, just doesn't make sense.

 

All the credit for AA's best move should be given to Tony Reagins. Taking on Vernon Wells contract while giving up productive players and only getting $5 million back is still unexplainable. It makes the Rios move look like nothing. Wells is two years older, is due over $40 million more from 2011-14, and his OPS is only .057 higher than Rios THIS season.

[Chisoxfn]

None of the players you name here were acquired/drafted by AA.

Ken Williams got more for an aging Freddy Garcia (Gavin & Gio) than AA got for Doc Halladay. Of course, years later we know what Gio and Gavin have developed into and the story is still pending for AA's guys. But given Drabek was the centerpiece of that deal, his early struggles aren't a good sign.

[LittleHurt05]

Ken Williams got more for an aging Freddy Garcia (Gavin & Gio) than AA got for Doc Halladay. Of course, years later we know what Gio and Gavin have developed into and the story is still pending for AA's guys. But given Drabek was the centerpiece of that deal, his early struggles aren't a good sign.

 

But his Dad won the Cy Young???

[Chisoxfn]

The Wells trade was exceptional, however, you act like Frank Francisco is good, which he really hasn't been, and you act like Brandon Morrow is some All-Star, when he really hasn't taken the next step and is approaching 28.

 

I love Lawrie, but he's quite unproven and raped the PCL. We'll see how well that translates to the bigs. You say he's already helping the big club? I say he's played 3 f***ing games so far. Also, I don't know how you can call trading Marcum last offseason as "selling high", when the Blue Jays and their staff could certainly use a guy with a 1.13 WHIP and a 3:1 k:bb rate in their rotation.

 

You post deals as certain wins where the jury is still very much out... the Wells deal was amazing, the rest is all up for debate still.

 

EDIT: OH AND OBVIOUSLY THE COLBY RASMUS TRADE WAS AWESOME f*** ME

And even if you look at the Wells deal. They took Napoli, who was the best player in that trade, and moved him for Frank Francisco. I'd say the Rangers raped the Jays in that deal.

[Jordan4life_2007]

And even if you look at the Wells deal. They took Napoli, who was the best player in that trade, and moved him for Frank Francisco. I'd say the Rangers raped the Jays in that deal.

 

 

Stop it.

[Rowand44]

No, we've seen enough. If I was a DA, I'd have more than enough sufficient evidence to present my case to the grand jury. We'd no doubt go to trial, in which case I'd be going up against Andrew Friedman's lawyer.

You're seriously being ridiculous with this. A guy can not be the best gm in baseball until he wins something, anything. Could a case be made in a few years? Possibly but there's just no possible argument right now to be made that he's the best gm in the game.

[Jordan4life_2007]

You're seriously being ridiculous with this. A guy can not be the best gm in baseball until he wins something, anything. Could a case be made in a few years? Possibly but there's just no possible argument right now to be made that he's the best gm in the game.

 

How do you figure? What GM could do a better job of cleaning up a dumbf***'s mess in less than two years time? There's no risk in any of the moves AA has made. If they workout, which some already have, they win. If they don't, they still win. Because there's nobody that's going to be a burden on their payroll long-term.

[Balta1701]

How do you figure? What GM could do a better job of cleaning up a dumbf***'s mess in less than two years time? There's no risk in any of the moves AA has made. If they workout, which some already have, they win. If they don't, they still win. Because there's nobody that's going to be a burden on their payroll long-term.

If they don't work out though, then they're stuck at the bottom of that division for another 4 years and he winds up fired.

[Jordan4life_2007]

If they don't work out though, then they're stuck at the bottom of that division for another 4 years and he winds up fired.

 

I like the chances of them working out. They've got some serious talent. Like I said, if they can talk a few free agents into coming to Canada, they'll be pipe bomb dangerous.

[Rowand44]

How do you figure? What GM could do a better job of cleaning up a dumbf***'s mess in less than two years time? There's no risk in any of the moves AA has made. If they workout, which some already have, they win. If they don't, they still win. Because there's nobody that's going to be a burden on their payroll long-term.

Just cleaning up their financial mess doesn't make him the best gm in the league. As I've said, on paper it appears that he's doing a tremendous job so far, but there's still a high possibility that some of these players he's acquired do end up busting. If that happens then a couple years from now these moves can look completely different than they do now.

[Chisoxfn]

 

Stop it.

Napoli is one of the best offensive catchers in baseball. Francisco is a reliever with a great arm and lousy WHIP. How was that a good deal for the Jays? Am I mistaken? Was Napoli not the best player in that deal by far?

[Jordan4life_2007]

Napoli is one of the best offensive catchers in baseball. Francisco is a reliever with a great arm and lousy WHIP. How was that a good deal for the Jays? Am I mistaken? Was Napoli not the best player in that deal by far?

 

Napoli plays part-time between C/1B (a whopping 34 games at C). Do you really believe he's a .1000+ OPS type? The Blue Jays didn't need him at all.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Jordan4life

[Chisoxfn]

Napoli plays part-time between C/1B (a whopping 34 games at C). Do you really believe he's a .1000+ OPS type? The Blue Jays didn't need him at all.

I believe Mike Napoli has a place on plenty of very good ballclubs. I don't think he's a 1000 OPS type player but he's an .800 OPS type player and I believe Mike Napoli is significantly better than Frank Francisco. And whether the Blue Jays needed him or not, I'm pretty sure they could find a spot for his production. I'm also pretty certain that if he were to be traded today, the Rangers would get more than the Jays did.

 

I'm just saying, the most amazing GM in baseball didn't exactly get the best value for a guy whose putting up a 1.000 OPS to date this year. And it isn't like he's being purely platooned. He's produced versus righties & lefties this year and the only reason he has only played in about 70 games is due to being on the DL for a chunk of the year.

[southsider2k5]

You're seriously being ridiculous with this. A guy can not be the best gm in baseball until he wins something, anything. Could a case be made in a few years? Possibly but there's just no possible argument right now to be made that he's the best gm in the game.

 

Or maybe a third place finish?

[caulfield12]

Mike Napoli >> Hank Conger/Kevin Mathis.

 

This is another of those Kotsay/Jones over Thome situations where if you put Napoli's numbers back on the Angels, they're running away with the division and have a pretty potent and balanced offense.

 

Stick Miguel Cabrera, Adrian Gonzalez or even Torii Hunter on the White Sox and they're right there leading the division. Or Victor Martinez instead of Dunn. Heck, Jeff Francouer (Greg's plan) instead of Dunn, Melky Cabrera instead of Rios.

 

Yeah, I know. That hindsight stuff is easy to do.

[Leonard Washington]

Alex Anthopoulos is a bonafide genius. I worked with the man. He interviewed and hired me. I've never met anybody in my entire life with such a strong combination of competency and drive.