Mysterious company dissolves after giving $1 million to pro-Romne

[Reddy]

Flysox (or whatever your name is today), I do have a legitimate question for you.

 

Obama is your Commander-in-Chief, right? If he walked up to you right now in his official capacity and gave you an order, you'd have to follow it, correct? From what I understand, grousing about the incompetency of one's superiors is quite commonplace in the military, much like in any organization or company. But if I'm in another organization where I vehemently disagree with everything my superiors are saying -- not just thinking they're incompetent, but that they are actively making bad decisions and making it an organization I don't want to be a part of -- then I leave that organization. Plain and simple. Because of this, I'm having a very hard time reconciling how you can apparently loathe everything about the upper apparatus or your organization (military and government), yet still actively be a part of it. Perhaps you can elaborate on this for me?

hot damn this is a good post.

[The Sir]

Flysox (or whatever your name is today), I do have a legitimate question for you.

 

Obama is your Commander-in-Chief, right? If he walked up to you right now in his official capacity and gave you an order, you'd have to follow it, correct? From what I understand, grousing about the incompetency of one's superiors is quite commonplace in the military, much like in any organization or company. But if I'm in another organization where I vehemently disagree with everything my superiors are saying -- not just thinking they're incompetent, but that they are actively making bad decisions and making it an organization I don't want to be a part of -- then I leave that organization. Plain and simple. Because of this, I'm having a very hard time reconciling how you can apparently loathe everything about the upper apparatus or your organization (military and government), yet still actively be a part of it. Perhaps you can elaborate on this for me?

 

That's a respectable question.

 

As you know, I'm a very opinionated person. I'm also not a big fan of Obama. And to to tell you the truth, not a lot of people in the military are. Maybe the POGs (people other than grunts) are slightly more liberal, but not the combat dudes. We are one of the greatest bastions of conservatism in America.

 

However, any good Soldier knows he's the boss. And we will obey his orders or the military will eliminate us. So when I go there, politics must remain separate. Yeah, we tell our conservative jokes and make politically conservative small talk, but if an order is given to us and we say, "well, Obama's a jackass, so...NO", we won't be long for the military. In fact, there was recently a LTC who refused to deploy until Obama showed his birth certificate. He did several months in jail, and deservedly so. That is mutiny and has no place in the organization.

 

And sure, you might ask why I stay. And that's because my belief in American greatness is stronger, far stronger, than my disagreements with Obama's philosophies.

 

LTC = Lieutenant Colonel BTW, so that guy probably had at least 15 years put in, and those years were completely wasted by his inability to abide by the simply guidelines I laid forward in this post. A shame.

Edited August 11, 2011 by God Loves The Infantry

[farmteam]

That's a respectable question.

 

As you know, I'm a very opinionated person. I'm also not a big fan of Obama. And to to tell you the truth, not a lot of people in the military are. Maybe the POGs (people other than grunts) are slightly more liberal, but not the combat dudes. We are one of the greatest bastions of conservatism in America.

 

However, any good Soldier knows he's the boss. And we will obey his orders or the military will eliminate us. So when I go there, politics must remain separate. Yeah, we tell our conservative jokes and make politically conservative small talk, but if an order is given to us and we say, "well, Obama's a jackass, so...NO", we won't be long for the military. In fact, there was recently a LTC who refused to deploy until Obama showed his birth certificate. He did several months in jail, and deservedly so. That is mutiny and has no place in the organization.

 

And sure, you might ask why I stay. And that's because my belief in American greatness is stronger, far stronger, than my disagreements with Obama's philosophies.

 

LTC = Lieutenant Colonel BTW, so that guy probably had at least 15 years put in, and those years were completely wasted by his inability to abide by the simply guidelines I laid forward in this post. A shame.

 

This is sort of what I figured, but from what I gather from your posts, you don't respect Obama. Without respect, it's pretty damn hard to lead a military (or anything else). Is it the respect for the office, then? Because while I understand that distinction, I think often that the respect for an office should reflect at least somewhat on its holder.

[The Sir]

This is sort of what I figured, but from what I gather from your posts, you don't respect Obama. Without respect, it's pretty damn hard to lead a military (or anything else). Is it the respect for the office, then? Because while I understand that distinction, I think often that the respect for an office should reflect at least somewhat on its holder.

 

It is respect for the office. He's the CiC whether we like it or not. That's really all I've got.

[Jake]

Navy SEALs killed Osama. Obama did not do that

 

I hear this often. And this is certainly true. It seems unclear what role Obama played other than giving the mission his blessing (and this may have even been through a staffer or something, I don't know).

 

However, if we hold the statement "Obama killed OBL" to that level of elaboration, why don't we do that with other issues, especially non-successes?

 

Economy is bad = Obama ruined the economy? Or is that an unfair statement?

[The Sir]

I hear this often. And this is certainly true. It seems unclear what role Obama played other than giving the mission his blessing (and this may have even been through a staffer or something, I don't know).

 

However, if we hold the statement "Obama killed OBL" to that level of elaboration, why don't we do that with other issues, especially non-successes?

 

Economy is bad = Obama ruined the economy? Or is that an unfair statement?

 

That's a legitimate question. And here's why.

 

If you want to tell me that Obama ruined the economy or that the Tea Party ruined it, whether I agree with you or not, you're just s***ting on a different group of politicians depending on your viewpoint. I'll surely have an opinion and I'll let you know, but it's not really a huge deal.

 

But if you tell me that Obama killed Osama, and leave the Navy SEALs out of it, you're s***ting on their sacrifices and their heroism.

 

Obama was not a Soldier. Therefore I am disinclined to believe that he did any of the tactical planning at all, and merely said something along the lines of, "Hmm....OK". And then he sat comfortably in the Situation Room and watched the mission. I'm very happy that he OK'ed it, and from reports on the whole thing, it seems he was very much concerned with the safety of our brothers.

 

But he's not the one who went to Navy basic training, and then to SEAL training, and then to Afghanistan and so on. He's not the one who decided on his own will to leave his safe little life in the West and go to Afghanistan to fight a horrible enemy of ours. He's not the one who gets paid dirt to sleep in the dirt, still caked in his own blood, sweat and tears.

 

You get my point. They made huge sacrifices (and recently, many of those SEALs paid the ultimate price) and while I thank Obama for approving that mission, that's all he did. He did not kill Osama, and he didn't make the sacrifices leading up to that kill and continuing after it. That's why I am fiercely defensive of anyone who wants to steal credit from the people to whom it is due.

[Texsox]

I believe civilian control of our military has worked very well for our 200+ years.

[The Sir]

I believe civilian control of our military has worked very well for our 200+ years.

 

I never said otherwise. All I said is that those civilians don't get credit for our successes. FDR didn't win WWII, GHWB didn't crush Saddam in 1991, Obama didn't get Osama and so on.

[southsider2k5]

sir, do you realize these polls are from a year ago? but then you're right - not much has happened in the past year besides... oh i don't know... the republicans BLOCKING RAISING THE DEBT CEILING! Causing this crash. Intentionally trying to destroy the economy so they'll win in 2012. How do you think the American public feels about that RIGHT NOW? Not back in 2010.

 

This logic really pisses me off.

 

This country has engaged in reckless spending for decades, heck almost 100 years now. When you finally get one group who is willing to stand up and try and stop them, THEY get victimized. Seriously this is akin to the person who takes the keys from the really drunk guy. The really drunk guy gets pissed off because he is "OK to drive home" and "I have been much worse than this before" Logically he should be pissed off at himself for being stupid and endangering himself. Instead he is pissed off at the person who tries to stand up and save him.

 

Should we be cutting now? No. But pretending we don't have a debt problem and demonizing the people who are trying to keep us from turning into Greece or Spain is just short sighted and partisan politics at its worst. But the left wing has their media marching orders, and they are going to keep pounding home that spending money we don't have is good, even though we can see what is happening around the world to countries that are steps past where we are now, yet are on the road too if we keep up our spending ways. No it would be nicer if the left wing would just put their keys in someone else's hands and sober up, but they aren't about to do that. Which is why the Tea Party was even allowed to come into existence, let alone prominence, despite the media slander sessions.

[The Sir]

This logic really pisses me off.

 

This country has engaged in reckless spending for decades, heck almost 100 years now. When you finally get one group who is willing to stand up and try and stop them, THEY get victimized. Seriously this is akin to the person who takes the keys from the really drunk guy. The really drunk guy gets pissed off because he is "OK to drive home" and "I have been much worse than this before" Logically he should be pissed off at himself for being stupid and endangering himself. Instead he is pissed off at the person who tries to stand up and save him.

 

Should we be cutting now? No. But pretending we don't have a debt problem and demonizing the people who are trying to keep us from turning into Greece or Spain is just short sighted and partisan politics at its worst. But the left wing has their media marching orders, and they are going to keep pounding home that spending money we don't have is good, even though we can see what is happening around the world to countries that are steps past where we are now, yet are on the road too if we keep up our spending ways. No it would be nicer if the left wing would just put their keys in someone else's hands and sober up, but they aren't about to do that. Which is why the Tea Party was even allowed to come into existence, let alone prominence, despite the media slander sessions.

 

 

[BigSqwert]

This logic really pisses me off.

 

This country has engaged in reckless spending for decades, heck almost 100 years now. When you finally get one group who is willing to stand up and try and stop them, THEY get victimized. Seriously this is akin to the person who takes the keys from the really drunk guy. The really drunk guy gets pissed off because he is "OK to drive home" and "I have been much worse than this before" Logically he should be pissed off at himself for being stupid and endangering himself. Instead he is pissed off at the person who tries to stand up and save him.

 

Should we be cutting now? No. But pretending we don't have a debt problem and demonizing the people who are trying to keep us from turning into Greece or Spain is just short sighted and partisan politics at its worst. But the left wing has their media marching orders, and they are going to keep pounding home that spending money we don't have is good, even though we can see what is happening around the world to countries that are steps past where we are now, yet are on the road too if we keep up our spending ways. No it would be nicer if the left wing would just put their keys in someone else's hands and sober up, but they aren't about to do that. Which is why the Tea Party was even allowed to come into existence, let alone prominence, despite the media slander sessions.

 

 

Why is it all of a sudden the #1 problem when this has been an issue for some time? How this is more important than job creation is beyond me. If the exact same scenario was occurring but McCain had one the election, I guarantee this wouldn't be issue #1.

 

How many times was the debt ceiling raised with no outcry in the previous administration? 7 or 8 times? This is all a farce.

Edited August 11, 2011 by BigSqwert

[Texsox]

I never said otherwise. All I said is that those civilians don't get credit for our successes. FDR didn't win WWII, GHWB didn't crush Saddam in 1991, Obama didn't get Osama and so on.

 

Then don't b**** at any cuts in funding or a lack of support from citizens. Do it on your own.

[southsider2k5]

Why is it all of a sudden the #1 problem when this has been an issue for some time? How this is more important than job creation is beyond me. If the exact same scenario was occurring but McCain had one the election, I guarantee this wouldn't be issue #1.

 

How many times was the debt ceiling raised with no outcry in the previous administration? 7 or 8 times? This is all a farce.

 

It wasn't the number 1 problem for Democrats either until this whole thing started...

[Balta1701]

It wasn't the number 1 problem for Democrats either until this whole thing started...

Because it was never actually in doubt that it would get passed before?

[Texsox]

This logic really pisses me off.

 

This country has engaged in reckless spending for decades, heck almost 100 years now. When you finally get one group who is willing to stand up and try and stop them, THEY get victimized. Seriously this is akin to the person who takes the keys from the really drunk guy. The really drunk guy gets pissed off because he is "OK to drive home" and "I have been much worse than this before" Logically he should be pissed off at himself for being stupid and endangering himself. Instead he is pissed off at the person who tries to stand up and save him.

 

Should we be cutting now? No. But pretending we don't have a debt problem and demonizing the people who are trying to keep us from turning into Greece or Spain is just short sighted and partisan politics at its worst. But the left wing has their media marching orders, and they are going to keep pounding home that spending money we don't have is good, even though we can see what is happening around the world to countries that are steps past where we are now, yet are on the road too if we keep up our spending ways. No it would be nicer if the left wing would just put their keys in someone else's hands and sober up, but they aren't about to do that. Which is why the Tea Party was even allowed to come into existence, let alone prominence, despite the media slander sessions.

 

Funny that we agree, we just pick different times to say it. Isn't that what I said when Bush was busy cutting taxes on the people who could most afford to pay taxes?

[southsider2k5]

Because it was never actually in doubt that it would get passed before?

 

Job creation, not the debt ceiling.

[Balta1701]

Job creation, not the debt ceiling.

I see.

 

Then change answer.

 

Because we weren't in the biggest employment hole since the Depression?

[The Sir]

Then don't b**** at any cuts in funding or a lack of support from citizens. Do it on your own.

 

Wait...do you think you deserve some of the credit for our triumphs because we are funded by your tax dollars? Maybe I read that wrong, but that seems to be your implication.

[Texsox]

Wait...do you think you deserve some of the credit for our triumphs because we are funded by your tax dollars? Maybe I read that wrong, but that seems to be your implication.

 

Yes. Civilian oversight has created the greatest military system in the world. Civilian support of the military, both financially and philosophically, has allowed all those cool tools you have. The funding has allowed a training system beyond anything the world has ever seen. If the country did not support the military, and funded it at a much lower level, those victories would be much harder, perhaps impossible. It's like ignoring the owner when a team wins a championship.

 

 

[Texsox]

If you don't believe me, start your own army and see how well you do self funding.

[The Sir]

Yes. Civilian oversight has created the greatest military system in the world. Civilian support of the military, both financially and philosophically, has allowed all those cool tools you have. The funding has allowed a training system beyond anything the world has ever seen. If the country did not support the military, and funded it at a much lower level, those victories would be much harder, perhaps impossible. It's like ignoring the owner when a team wins a championship.

 

What do you do? Allow a bit of money to be siphoned out of your paycheck every two weeks? And somehow that makes you comparable to the Soldier, who pays his debt with his life? Sure, thanks for the funding, but don't expect me to fall to my knees proclaiming what a great and noble individual you are.

 

Also, the military's great because of the people who serve in it. Civilian oversight protects our democracy but it doesn't make the military the best on Earth. Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines do that.

[Texsox]

Good luck with that self funded army. lol

[Texsox]

America can be the best at whatever we value as a society. If we placed the same high value on say health care that we do on the military we would apply the necessary resources to make us #1. It wouldn't just be the brave Doctors and technicians. It would be the researchers, the technicians, and all of society. You are ignoring all the civilian contributions. Plus, I think it is really disregardful for you to impersonate a soldier. But whatever.

[The Sir]

America can be the best at whatever we value as a society. If we placed the same high value on say health care that we do on the military we would apply the necessary resources to make us #1. It wouldn't just be the brave Doctors and technicians. It would be the researchers, the technicians, and all of society. You are ignoring all the civilian contributions. Plus, I think it is really disregardful for you to impersonate a soldier. But whatever.

 

Paying your taxes, hence allowing the military to be funded, is important. But following the law does not equate to risking your life as a volunteer. Thanks for doing what the government obligates you to do but that doesn't make you noble or brave. It's pathetic that you think it does.

 

You love civilian control of the military is great. And I do too. It is a trait of all liberal democracies. But that's not why our military is the best on Earth. Did Barack Obama show thousands of Soldiers how to shoot or how to clear room or how to react to an ambush? No. Soldiers do that. They train and then they implement. Warriors make our military as lethal as it is; not the bureaucrats who sit in their DC offices. It's absolutely reprehensible for you to try to deny that.

 

I don't care what you think of my politics. Don't ever accuse me of impersonating a Soldier. That is bush league bulls***.

[CrimsonWeltall]

Warriors make our military as lethal as it is; not the bureaucrats who sit in their DC offices.

 

Primarily, funding makes our military as lethal as it is.