Greg Hibbard Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 01:00 PM) The Sox have the fifth highest payroll in Major League Baseball, and as of today, they are three games under .500. I don't know how this has been anything but a piss-poor year. Their record simply hasn't piss-poor for most of the season. I don't know how to qualify it further. It's remarkable that so many baseball fans will scream SAMPLE SIZE!!!! and TREND!!!! when it's convenient to their argument, but then ignore their importance when it comes to something they disagree with. Looking at their aggregate record and evaluating it against their payroll feels myopic to me. For almost 3/4 of this season, they have been winning at a rate within 4-5 games of what many people expected them to win at (I feel as though most people expected a win rate of 93-94 games). A .550 winning percentage for half a season's worth of games. Disappointing? I guess maybe slightly. I never expected them to win at some superhuman rate, like they put up during interleague last year. I did expect them to bounce back from a horrid april and compete, and they have done so. 8 over for the last 80 feels about right to me and certainly doesn't fit "piss-poor". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 (edited) Fact of the matter is that we have 6 (yes, 6!) of the worst players in baseball at their respective positions getting significant playing time. I can't think of off the top of my head a team being so prohibitively handicapped by that many guys ever winning a division title. Save the sample size. Baseball tells you the truth 9.5 times out of 10. Edited August 8, 2011 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 02:32 PM) Fact of the matter is that we have 6 (yes, 6!) of the worst players in baseball at their respective positions getting significant playing time. I can't think of off the top of my head a team being so prohibitively handicapped by that many guys ever winning a division title. Save the sample size. Baseball tells you the truth 9.5 times out of 10. Jeesh, I can think of 4 (Morel/Pierre/Rios/Dunn)....who are the other 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 02:43 PM) Jeesh, I can think of 4 (Morel/Pierre/Rios/Dunn)....who are the other 2? AJ and Beckham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 02:32 PM) Fact of the matter is that we have 6 (yes, 6!) of the worst players in baseball at their respective positions getting significant playing time. I can't think of off the top of my head a team being so prohibitively handicapped by that many guys ever winning a division title. Save the sample size. Baseball tells you the truth 9.5 times out of 10. Are we evaluating everyone solely on OPS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 12:44 PM) AJ and Beckham. No way is AJ one of the worse at his respected position. Have you seen the crap the Dodgers and Angels have been running out at catcher? Olivio, Suzuki, BUck, Jorge Posada, Josh Thole, etc. There are quite a few others that I could potentially throw into that mix, even guys like Matt Wieters (who while super talented isn't exactly dominating). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 08:04 PM) Their record simply hasn't piss-poor for most of the season. I don't know how to qualify it further. It's remarkable that so many baseball fans will scream SAMPLE SIZE!!!! and TREND!!!! when it's convenient to their argument, but then ignore their importance when it comes to something they disagree with. Looking at their aggregate record and evaluating it against their payroll feels myopic to me. For almost 3/4 of this season, they have been winning at a rate within 4-5 games of what many people expected them to win at (I feel as though most people expected a win rate of 93-94 games). A .550 winning percentage for half a season's worth of games. Disappointing? I guess maybe slightly. I never expected them to win at some superhuman rate, like they put up during interleague last year. I did expect them to bounce back from a horrid april and compete, and they have done so. 8 over for the last 80 feels about right to me and certainly doesn't fit "piss-poor". I don't get your post. They are 4-5 games within what many expected? The team is under .500 and all-in. It has been totally a piss poor season IMO. The team has played so bad at home there have been as many boos as cheers. The team has a season-high win streak of four games. The offense has been disgracefully bad, so bad at knocking in runners that the games are almost impossible to watch in their entireity. The team has sucked overall. Now if suddenly the team plays as it did in Minnesota the rest of the way, great. But that is not going to suddenly happen IMO. Edited August 8, 2011 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 01:04 PM) Their record simply hasn't piss-poor for most of the season. I don't know how to qualify it further. It's remarkable that so many baseball fans will scream SAMPLE SIZE!!!! and TREND!!!! when it's convenient to their argument, but then ignore their importance when it comes to something they disagree with. Looking at their aggregate record and evaluating it against their payroll feels myopic to me. For almost 3/4 of this season, they have been winning at a rate within 4-5 games of what many people expected them to win at (I feel as though most people expected a win rate of 93-94 games). A .550 winning percentage for half a season's worth of games. Disappointing? I guess maybe slightly. I never expected them to win at some superhuman rate, like they put up during interleague last year. I did expect them to bounce back from a horrid april and compete, and they have done so. 8 over for the last 80 feels about right to me and certainly doesn't fit "piss-poor". You can't just throw out a month of the season though. April counts unfortunately and the season as a whole has been piss poor, there is no doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Aug 7, 2011 -> 02:06 PM) How much of the job of front office, coaches, and managers is motivating players to be successful? Of course he shouldn't need outside motivation, but in reality everyone does at times. Someone has to find a way into his head and turn this around. It would seem like AJ/PK should be in this guy's face. QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 09:02 PM) You can't just throw out a month of the season though. April counts unfortunately and the season as a whole has been piss poor, there is no doubt. We've been spoiled with pretty good baseball, but I can't remember a season this frustrating in a long time. Our offense has been so bad it's laughable which many of us have done when Dunn/Rios are up to bat and others are finding new ways to screw up first and second and nobody out situations. I'd rate this all-in season a D so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 01:52 PM) Thing is, I never insulted anybody. I put out my thoughts (that weren't even that bad) and I've gotten slammed. If anything, Sox fans have been the worst during these times, I can't even talk to my coworkers nowadays. You didn't insult anybody, that wasn't meant at you. I have actually been on the pessimistic side most of the time, I have refused to believe at all until they got over .500 and within a game of the lead. I just saw a thread saying "It might be crazy, but it could happen? Go Sox!" and didn't see the point of the person getting slammed. Some people hold onto to the last hope, until it's mathmatically impossible to win. If that's how they choose to root, to each their own, don't need to jump on them for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 And if I was going to judge Pierre by OBP amongst all left fielders, there are almost 15 with lower OBP's. I'm using OBP since Pierre is a leadoff hitter and in my eyes that is the best way to evaluate leadoff hitters. Of course, I will point out my analysis is flawed to an extent since some of the other left fielders have other strengths not related to OBP. However, of those 14 worse left fielders from an OBP perspective, only 2 have 800+ OBP's (Seth Smith - Colorado & Nelson Cruz - Texas). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 03:52 PM) No way is AJ one of the worse at his respected position. Have you seen the crap the Dodgers and Angels have been running out at catcher? Olivio, Suzuki, BUck, Jorge Posada, Josh Thole, etc. There are quite a few others that I could potentially throw into that mix, even guys like Matt Wieters (who while super talented isn't exactly dominating). Fangraphs puts AJ squarely in the center of the pack for catchers this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 02:55 PM) I don't get your post. They are 4-5 games within what many expected? The team is under .500 and all-in. It has been totally a piss poor season IMO. The team has played so bad at home there have been as many boos as cheers. The team has a season-high win streak of four games. The offense has been disgracefully bad, so bad at knocking in runners that the games are almost impossible to watch in their entireity. The team has sucked overall. Now if suddenly the team plays as it did in Minnesota the rest of the way, great. But that is not going to suddenly happen IMO. Flash back to May 6th. The team is 11-22. fill in the blank with what your thought would have been that day: "I think ______ would be an acceptable winning percentage over the next 80 games" 44-36 feels acceptable to me. Did you expect 50-30? 60-20? I did not feel as though this team was a 100-120 game winner at any point. I felt as though they were a low to mid 90s winner. Which means that 8 over .500 for 80 games is about where they should have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 02:16 PM) And if I was going to judge Pierre by OBP amongst all left fielders, there are almost 15 with lower OBP's. I'm using OBP since Pierre is a leadoff hitter and in my eyes that is the best way to evaluate leadoff hitters. Of course, I will point out my analysis is flawed to an extent since some of the other left fielders have other strengths not related to OBP. However, of those 14 worse left fielders from an OBP perspective, only 2 have 800+ OBP's (Seth Smith - Colorado & Nelson Cruz - Texas). Now that's impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 02:16 PM) Fangraphs puts AJ squarely in the center of the pack for catchers this year. I have a hard time believing Pierre/Beckham/AJ belong in this group...Morel is a rookie...rookie's traditionally are at the bottom of the pack statistically...which leaves Dunn and Rios...what more is there to say about those two...although I still have faith in both of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 03:18 PM) Now that's impressive. Even that roided up monster in San Francisco only managed .600+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 09:17 PM) Flash back to May 6th. The team is 11-22. fill in the blank with what your thought would have been that day: "I think ______ would be an acceptable winning percentage over the next 80 games" 44-36 feels acceptable to me. Did you expect 50-30? 60-20? I did not feel as though this team was a 100-120 game winner at any point. I felt as though they were a low to mid 90s winner. Which means that 8 over .500 for 80 games is about where they should have been. So as many of us feared, that slow start cost us the season. Cause this team is still way too far out of first and still significantly under .500, all because of a s*** five weeks. I tell you, Oz should be manager of the year for going 44-36 with this horrible offense. It is truly a miracle. But I maintain the 44-36 doesn't matter because of the awful start. Because this season has to be graded a D right now, even with the 44-36. It has been a miserable season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 10:09 PM) So as many of us feared, that slow start cost us the season. Cause this team is still way too far out of first and still significantly under .500, all because of a s*** five weeks. I tell you, Oz should be manager of the year for going 44-36 with this horrible offense. It is truly a miracle. But I maintain the 44-36 doesn't matter because of the awful start. Because this season has to be graded a D right now, even with the 44-36. It has been a miserable season. It hasn't been a fun time and I sure thought we would be having a great time this season beating the daylights out of other teams. Ozzie has done a real good job keeping this team in it for sure. I know some don't want anything but heads to roll, but I really think with a move here and there this off season we will be good next year. But, I am not writing this year off yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 05:13 PM) It hasn't been a fun time and I sure thought we would be having a great time this season beating the daylights out of other teams. Ozzie has done a real good job keeping this team in it for sure. I know some don't want anything but heads to roll, but I really think with a move here and there this off season we will be good next year. But, I am not writing this year off yet Ozzie has kept the team in it? I'd attribute it to the godawful s***tiness of the division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleCoastBias Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 World Series or bust! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 02:17 PM) Flash back to May 6th. The team is 11-22. fill in the blank with what your thought would have been that day: "I think ______ would be an acceptable winning percentage over the next 80 games" 44-36 feels acceptable to me. Did you expect 50-30? 60-20? I did not feel as though this team was a 100-120 game winner at any point. I felt as though they were a low to mid 90s winner. Which means that 8 over .500 for 80 games is about where they should have been. This is why a lot of us (like me) said the season was over by early May. People hated to hear that, but you have to be outstanding to dig out of a hole like that and we're not. Edited August 9, 2011 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sin city sox fan Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 Knock another half game off Detroit's lead. The Tigers have to be getting scared now!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 08:48 PM) Knock another half game off Detroit's lead. The Tigers have to be getting scared now!!!! They should. They traditionally fold like a mobile home in a tornado during the second half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 When do playoff tickets go on sale??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) Fister vs. Masterson AT CLE Porcello vs. Jimenez Verlander vs. Carmona. Indians will take 2/3. We have to take 3/4 from the Orioles. That puts us at 4 GB heading into the weekend. Then another 2/3 from Kansas City. By the way, please tell me we don't have to face Bruce Chen again!! Edited August 9, 2011 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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