ChiSox_Sonix Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Interesting article on the Blue Jays possibly stealing signs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 01:08 PM) Interesting article on the Blue Jays possibly stealing signs The Yankees were going through their full set of signs with no one on 2b the last time they were in Torotno, it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 12:08 PM) Interesting article on the Blue Jays possibly stealing signs So maybe it wasn't HGH that has helped Bautista. Just good old fashioned cheating? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 12:08 PM) Interesting article on the Blue Jays possibly stealing signs Very interesting. The players splits were amazing. Batista had a 240 point OPS difference from home to road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 01:17 PM) Very interesting. The players splits were amazing. Batista had a 240 point OPS difference from home to road. IIRC, when we were discussing Q versus Hamilton in the 2008 MVP race, Q had >.900 OPS both on the road and at home and Hamilton had something like 1.100 in Texas and .750 on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 12:18 PM) IIRC, when we were discussing Q versus Hamilton in the 2008 MVP race, Q had >.900 OPS both on the road and at home and Hamilton had something like 1.100 in Texas and .750 on the road. It would have been less interesting if the paragraph about how Rogers Centre isn't a hitters park wasn't in there, and how much past a normal standard deviation between the home and road teams were apart statistically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Wow...seems pretty obvious that they were cheating...may seem harmless since they haven't won s***... But my guess is this may have help Alex Anthopolous ditch Vernon Wells' contract just a bit... Slimy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 12:34 PM) Wow...seems pretty obvious that they were cheating...may seem harmless since they haven't won s***... But my guess is this may have help Alex Anthopolous ditch Vernon Wells' contract just a bit... Slimy... Good thought. Wow, I hadn't even thought of that. I wonder what Anaheim's got to be thinking right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 01:34 PM) Wow...seems pretty obvious that they were cheating...may seem harmless since they haven't won s***... But my guess is this may have help Alex Anthopolous ditch Vernon Wells' contract just a bit... Slimy... OPS with the Blue Jays, one "Alexis Rios": 2006: .865 2007: .852 2008: .798 2009: .744 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 12:07 PM) OPS with the Blue Jays, one "Alexis Rios": 2006: .865 2007: .852 2008: .798 2009: .744 Gulp... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 An interesting twist on the Cheat Jays story... ShiDavidi Shi Davidi by espnchijon Jose Bautista says he had an altercation with a White Sox reliever during a game last spring. Called ESPN story bogus, and ridiculous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 http://stealofhome.wordpress.com/2011/08/1...ns-but-by-whom/ Blue Jays Caught Stealing Signs? But by Whom? The Toronto Blue Jays have been under fire for “stealing signs” at home for the past year, most publicly by Yankees manager Joe Girardi. Basically, some of the opposing teams believe that the Blue Jays are using a third-party to find out what the pitcher will be throwing once he accepts the sign from the catcher. Today, Amy K. Nelson and Peter Keating wrote an article at ESPN detailing a specific sign-stealing incident. I was interested to see if I could find which game this incident happened, based on what we can find from the article. This is what we know: The game happened in the spring of 2010 (April 5th – June 20). It took place at the Rogers Centre. The opponent was an American League team. Jose Bautista played right field. Jose Bautista struck out late in the game. The opposing team was not using multiple signs with runners on base early in the game, but started doing this later in the game. The game was not the last in the series, since the opposing team was able to go to the stadium the next day. Based on these criteria, six games appear: Date Opponent 13-Apr CHW 2-May OAK 28-May BAL 29-May BAL 1-Jun TBR 5-Jun NYY I watched video of each of these games. At first, I thought the game against the Yankees would be the one, since they are mentioned multiple times in the article. However, it doesn’t appear that they change signs late in the game. Neither do the Athletics or Orioles, from what I can see on the broadcasts. However, in the April 13th game, the Chicago White Sox definitely do switch to multiple signs with no runners on base in the 6th inning (for proof, watch the CSN feed of the game in the 5th and 6th innings on MLB.TV). Here’s a great picture of where the pitchers in the bullpen sit (taken from Ballparks of Baseball). You can see their heads on the far right of the picture. Click to enlarge The article mentions that the members of the bullpen “caught sight of a man dressed in white about 25 yards to their right, out among the blue center-field seats.” This means he must be sitting somewhere under the skyboxes in center field. If we look at this area during the White Sox game, we find this: Click to enlarge Interesting. There appear to be three people wearing white shirts and sitting in center field at this game. But the article also says “The inning after the incident, however, the relays stopped, and the man in white left his seat.” The “incident,” if it happened in this game, would have been in the 5th inning. This next shot is taken from the bottom of the eighth inning: Click to enlarge At least one of the men in white is missing, seated in Section 101R, Row 1, Seat 1. Now, I’m not trying to “call out” the White Sox, but I believe that all signs point to this game being the one about which the article was written. The Blue Jays and White Sox have already played their lone series at the Rogers Centre this year and interestingly enough did not use multiple signs with no runners on board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) On SportsCenter this morning, Bobby Valentine said something about Hawk Harrelson, lights on the scoreboard at old Comiskey Park, and Tony La Russa with regards to cheating. Considering I wasn't born then, and have never heard that story, his comments greatly confused me. Am I missing something, or is Valentine just nuts? Edited August 10, 2011 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 03:48 PM) http://stealofhome.wordpress.com/2011/08/1...ns-but-by-whom/ Man I hope we dont get put into this story, last thing we need is another off field distraction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewashed in '05 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 TORONTO (AP) — Toronto Blue Jays general manager Alex Anthopoulos says an ESPN report accusing his team of stealing signs at home is "stupid" and "has got a lot of holes in it." A front page article on the ESPN website Wednesday cited four anonymous relief pitchers from an AL team who claimed they saw a man in a white shirt sending signals from the outfield seats to the batter's box during a game in 2010. According to the article, the man would raise his arms to indicate an offspeed pitch, and leave them by his side if a fastball was coming. Speaking to reporters before Toronto's game against Oakland, Anthopoulos said there was "zero truth" to the allegations, adding that he was upset no former Blue Jays players, coaches or officials were quoted in the story. "To do something like this would take a whole lot of work by this organization to keep everybody quiet," he said. "I just wish people would look at the common sense component first and say 'Is this really realistic?' "Baseball is a small fraternity," he added. "I don't think it's too hard to find a former coach, a former player, a former front office executive, a former clubhouse guy, a former field guy. Not one person. Instead, let's find four players on some other team claiming that they saw the guy in the white shirt and that they saw the UFO flying across the sky, and let's write a huge story and make a big stink about it." Anthopoulos challenged his accusers to find video evidence of sign stealing. "I think every one of our games is broadcast," he said. "We have cameras everywhere. Why doesn't everybody go through the footage? Spend a month, spend a year, spend your lifetime, go look for the man in the white shirt. Maybe you'll find someone in a blue shirt or a black shirt. Maybe you'll see a dog. But spend the time, do a little work." Blue Jays manager John Farrell called the article "a slap in the face." "It's unfortunate and it's unfounded," Farrell said. "They're completely misguided comments." One of the four pitchers mentioned in the article told Blue Jays outfielder Jose Bautista he would throw at his head if the sign stealing continued. Bautista said the team involved in the April 2010 incident was the Chicago White Sox. Baseball's reigning home run king refused to identify the player who made the threat, but said he is still a member of the White Sox. Bautista called the ESPN report "ridiculous and fictitious." "I don't see how you can look at the ball and look at (a man in a white shirt) at the same time," Bautista said. "It's impossible in my head. From reading the article, I have no idea how they claim this is done." This isn't the first time the Blue Jays have been accused of stealing signs. Yankees catcher Russell Martin claimed Toronto was relaying information from second base during a July series in Toronto. Manager Joe Girardi conceded that anything done by the players and coaches was fair game, but suggested the Blue Jays "could be" using other means to gain an edge. After losing the opener 16-7, the Yankees began using multiple signs in last month's series, even when no one was on base. They went on to win two of the next three games. Girardi had little to say when asked to comment on the latest allegations against the Blue Jays. "People have been stealing signs since the beginning of time," Girardi said before the Yankees hosted the Angels. "It's your job as a club to protect your signs." Asked about the matter before his game at Baltimore, White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen acknowledged being aware of Toronto's reputation for sign stealing. "People talk about it," Guillen said. "If it works, they should be in first place." The Blue Jays entered play Wednesday at 58-57, fourth in the AL East and 14 games out of first place. They're 28-27 at home, where they were no-hit by Detroit's Justin Verlander in May, and 30-30 on the road. Verlander's May 7 no-hitter was one of four times this season the Blue Jays have been shutout this season, with three of those coming at home. Both Guillen and Girardi said protecting signs is the responsibility of the catcher. "If you have stolen signs, you have a dumb catcher," Guillen said. "If you see guys stealing signs, change the signs." Oh isn't this just great. Another White Sox controversy... Link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Santos or Sale? I don't see Thornton saying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 06:51 PM) Santos or Sale? I don't see Thornton saying it. Sale hadn't even been drafted then. Didn't Danks & Bautista get into a shouting match? Was that over something different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 06:51 PM) Santos or Sale? I don't see Thornton saying it. Almost has to be Matt. Santos had just barely made the team. I can't see him doing that at such an early stage of his major league career. Everyone else is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 06:51 PM) Santos or Sale? I don't see Thornton saying it. Bulls***, it was 100% Thornton. That is exactly something he would say. He threatened players the same way at Grand Valley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 It only takes a slight Chinese Telephone miscommunication to go from it being a pitcher saying that to it being a catcher. AJ. Not even worth thinking it's anyone else. Don't care that this writer says it's a pitcher. Somehow AJ was involved or caused it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 07:34 PM) It only takes a slight Chinese Telephone miscommunication to go from it being a pitcher saying that to it being a catcher. AJ. Not even worth thinking it's anyone else. Don't care that this writer says it's a pitcher. Somehow AJ was involved or caused it. No way dude. It was obviously Oney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 08:36 PM) No way dude. It was obviously Oney. You know I'm right too. Somehow the story involves AJ in a key role. Hell, he has a better view of cf than the pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 03:51 PM) On SportsCenter this morning, Bobby Valentine said something about Hawk Harrelson, lights on the scoreboard at old Comiskey Park, and Tony La Russa with regards to cheating. Considering I wasn't born then, and have never heard that story, his comments greatly confused me. Am I missing something, or is Valentine just nuts? If you google Comiskey Park stealing signs, a whole bunch of things come up, all different sources. Pretty sure there are legs to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 07:30 PM) Bulls***, it was 100% Thornton. That is exactly something he would say. He threatened players the same way at Grand Valley. That's surprising to me. I don't doubt what you say, I just didn't think Thornton had that type of personality. I thought he was kind of a p****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 11:01 PM) That's surprising to me. I don't doubt what you say, I just didn't think Thornton had that type of personality. I thought he was kind of a p****. I just really didn't know that Thornton had a personality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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