Marty34 Posted August 13, 2011 Author Share Posted August 13, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 13, 2011 -> 02:02 PM) Which is why the Yankees traded away Brett Gardner and all those catchers. Because they didn't have time to wait on them. Brett Gardner at his worst had value as a 4th OF'er who could play center and run. Morel doesn't have near his versatility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 13, 2011 -> 04:28 PM) Brett Gardner at his worst had value as a 4th OF'er who could play center and run. Morel doesn't have near his versatility. Which is why they dumped their catching prospects. After all, how versatile is a young catching prospect? That's why they dumped Phil hughes and Joba Chamberlain also. They don't have the time to spend years developing these guys into something useful and consistent. Man the return they got on those trades must have been incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted August 13, 2011 Author Share Posted August 13, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 13, 2011 -> 03:30 PM) Which is why they dumped their catching prospects. After all, how versatile is a young catching prospect? That's why they dumped Phil hughes and Joba Chamberlain also. They don't have the time to spend years developing these guys into something useful and consistent. Man the return they got on those trades must have been incredible. All the prospects you've mentioned were thought more highly of than Brett Morel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted August 13, 2011 Author Share Posted August 13, 2011 Brett Morel's ceiling is a Joe Randa-type player. I don't know if you wait around two years for a possible Joe Randa. Third Base still should be considered a priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 13, 2011 -> 04:40 PM) Brett Morel's ceiling is a Joe Randa-type player. I don't know if you wait around two years for a possible Joe Randa. Third Base still should be considered a priority. If you've got $100 million to spend and $88 million already committed before arbitration, then 3rd base is no where near a priority. Morel ought to have that job locked up already, just from what he's shown this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Aug 13, 2011 -> 02:16 PM) Bulls***. I never said that Beckham/Morel had to be Cano/Longoria. I wiped the slate clean with Beckham coming into this year. Suffice it to say he's failed miserably. Morel? He's been Chone Figgins bad. I don't agree with picking on the guys that make a lot of money and making excuses for the guys that make 500K. You ain't part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Btw, did you notice Longoria is hitting .232 this year? He's part of the problem over there in Tampa. This issue where prospects don't turn into what they were supposed to? That's what happens with most of them. That's why developing a team of homegrown players is not quite as easy as throwing a s***load of money into scouting and drafting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted August 13, 2011 Author Share Posted August 13, 2011 Brett Morel is not a Major League hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted August 13, 2011 Author Share Posted August 13, 2011 . . . The only thing Morel should have locked up for 2012 is his bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 13, 2011 -> 04:59 PM) Brett Morel is not a Major League hitter. Brent Morel has hit .290 in the major leagues for 3.5 months with improving slugging as time goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 13, 2011 -> 04:09 PM) Brent Morel has hit .290 in the major leagues for 3.5 months with improving slugging as time goes on. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with Morel's future here, but Morel had an ISO of .029 in June and .024 in July. It's significantly better in August so far with half of the month left, but I don't think you can make a serious argument that his slugging has improved much as the season as progressed. Unless you're only looking at August and ignoring the previous two months, in which case... Simply put, Morel has been very, very bad with the bat this year. Will it improve in the future? Almost certainly, but that's because it's damn hard for a player to be this bad again (unless you're Drew Butera/Jeff Mathis). Even Brian Anderson wasn't this bad. Edited August 13, 2011 by Felix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 And then he has 4 walks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 13, 2011 -> 10:44 AM) You're confusing blaming Hollywood with kissing Guillen's ass. I believe more accurately you are combining them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 13, 2011 -> 11:40 AM) I think it is mostly Soxtalk that doesn't like him. I think you got that backwards too. Soxtalk didn't like Cowardly long before he didn't like Soxtalk. He is a Jay Mariotti-wannabe with one source in town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 13, 2011 -> 02:15 PM) In all fairness, you did pimp the entire Royals farm system earlier this year, saying when Hosmer, Moustakas, & Co. joined the club they would go on an Atlanta Braves type run. And you've also pimped Drabek a lot. As soon as they added the kids, they went south QUICK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Aug 13, 2011 -> 02:21 PM) Who didn't hype up that system? And most of their guys haven't even had a full year in the bigs yet. And neither has Morel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 13, 2011 -> 03:07 PM) In that case, you need to stop paying attention to prospects, period. Because they're almost never part of the solution right out of the gate. No, I'm not going to stop paying attention to prospects because the White Sox have no idea how to develop any. Nobody expected Morel to challenge for the ROY. But nobody expected him to be this bad, either. QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 13, 2011 -> 03:55 PM) Btw, did you notice Longoria is hitting .232 this year? He's part of the problem over there in Tampa. This issue where prospects don't turn into what they were supposed to? That's what happens with most of them. That's why developing a team of homegrown players is not quite as easy as throwing a s***load of money into scouting and drafting. Yeah, because Longoria didn't have a proven pedrigree going into this year. Maybe the Rays should sell low? Meanwhile, guys like Hellickson and Jennings have fared just fine (though the same size is still small with Jennings). QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 13, 2011 -> 04:55 PM) And neither has Morel. Hosmer and Crow have had no problems to this point. If you want to call out the guys that have struggled, give credit to the guys that have held their own. Edited August 13, 2011 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Aug 13, 2011 -> 07:12 PM) Hosmer and Crow have had no problems to this point. If you want to call out the guys that have struggled, give credit to the guys that have held their own. An OPS in the low .700's is "no problems"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 13, 2011 -> 06:48 PM) An OPS in the low .700's is "no problems"? .756 to be exact. And he's shown enough to expect an increase in productivity going forward. I don't have this unrealistic illusion that every top prospect that comes up needs to produce like Dwight Gooden or Miguel Cabrera. Edited August 13, 2011 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Aug 13, 2011 -> 07:55 PM) .756 to be exact. And he's shown enough to expect an increase in productivity going forward. I don't have this unrealistic illusion that every top prospect that comes up needs to produce like Dwight Gooden or Miguel Cabrera. So, the other team's prospect gets enough credit to expect an increase in productivity going forwards, but the White Sox one does not. Riiiiiiiiiight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 13, 2011 -> 07:00 PM) So, the other team's prospect gets enough credit to expect an increase in productivity going forwards, but the White Sox one does not. Riiiiiiiiiight. Dude, are we seriously comparing Hosmer/Morel? There is no comparison. Watching Morel, the only hope one could have going forward is that it would be almost impossible to be as bad as he's been this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Aug 13, 2011 -> 08:06 PM) Dude, are we seriously comparing Hosmer/Morel? There is no comparison. Watching Morel, the only hope one could have going forward is that it would be almost impossible to be as bad as he's been this year. If each of their OPS's rose by 150 points, wouldn't that be where they're supposed to be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 13, 2011 -> 07:11 PM) If each of their OPS's rose by 150 points, wouldn't that be where they're supposed to be? Hey, I never threw out a comparison between the two. You did that. Is it too much to ask for league-average or close to league-average production from a 24-year old? What's sad is 3B production is down all around baseball. Yet Morel is nowhere close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Aug 13, 2011 -> 08:19 PM) Hey, I never threw out a comparison between the two. You did that. Is it too much to ask for league-average or close to league-average production from a 24-year old? What's sad is 3B production is down all around baseball. Yet Morel is nowhere close. In a rookie? It's possible, but highly unlikely that you get league-average production out of him, and you don't build your lineup expecting that, and you absolutely don't sit around complaining when the rookie takes time do develop. The Sox didn't build a lineup which relied on Morel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 13, 2011 -> 07:24 PM) In a rookie? It's possible, but highly unlikely that you get league-average production out of him, and you don't build your lineup expecting that, and you absolutely don't sit around complaining when the rookie takes time do develop. The Sox didn't build a lineup which relied on Morel. In other words, expect the absolute worst with White Sox farmhands and hope for the best? If that works for you, have at it. I learned my lesson with BA. In all honestly, I'm not that worried about Morel. I never thought he was that good. Beckham is the one that should concern everybody. Edited August 14, 2011 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Aug 13, 2011 -> 08:27 PM) In other words, expect that absolute worst with White Sox farmhands and hope for the best? If that works for you, have at it. I learned my lesson with BA. In all honestly, I'm not that worried about Morel. I never thought he was that good. Beckham is the one that should concern everybody. Not just white sox farmhands. You should never build a roster that requires above-average performance from a rookie if you expect to compete. Beckham, that's cause for concern. I'm gonna hold out hope that he Alex Gordon recovers it next year. We've got 1 more pre-arb year on him, then he's worth keeping for 1 arb year right now, so he probably has 2 years left to develop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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