Indiana State Fair stage collapses

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

 

Holy s***.

[southsider2k5]

Up to 5 dead now.

[StrangeSox]

[SnB]

Absolutely terrifying.

[bigruss]

Holy hell, that stage fell on a ton of people. I really hope the casualties are not as bad as what I think they'll be.

[Texsox]

Five confirmed dead. How sad. Moments before the collapse it was suggested that concert goers move to another location. Sadly, it was the folks with the best tickets who stayed.

[whitesoxfan101]

Incredibly sad. Honestly, looking at that video, I think one small positive that can be taken out of this is that the death toll isn't higher than 5. I'm not sure why that pit wasn't evacuated by that point either, but I find myself asking such questions frequently about weather-related decisions at outdoor events. I really don't blame anyone for this with that in mind, I just feel it's inevitable it'll happen again unless more caution is taken.

[hogan873]

It's an absolutely terrifying video. I couldn't imagine being there and witnessing that. It was amazing to see and hear about everyone who rushed towards the collapsed stage to help. Probably saved some lives.

[SnB]

Watching the people that missed getting hit by about a foot is just horrifying.

[southsider2k5]

Incredibly sad. Honestly, looking at that video, I think one small positive that can be taken out of this is that the death toll isn't higher than 5. I'm not sure why that pit wasn't evacuated by that point either, but I find myself asking such questions frequently about weather-related decisions at outdoor events. I really don't blame anyone for this with that in mind, I just feel it's inevitable it'll happen again unless more caution is taken.

 

There was no evacuation. The storm intensified very quickly and no one was really ready for it. The winds shocked everyone.

[Balta1701]

There was no evacuation. The storm intensified very quickly and no one was really ready for it. The winds shocked everyone.

With the fact that there seemed to be nothing else in the area damaged, I wonder if there isn't going to be discovered to be a construction issue here.

[southsider2k5]

With the fact that there seemed to be nothing else in the area damaged, I wonder if there isn't going to be discovered to be a construction issue here.

 

I wouldn't be surprised at all honestly. Having actually had the misfortune of being on a stage during a similar storm, those things are pretty damned tough really. Summer storms like that happen on a "regular" basis. I'd say we get 60 mph winds at least once a summer, if not more.

[Steve9347]

I find this pretty terrifying given my wife saw Sugarland the night before and had floor seats. Of course, that was indoors, but still... just fluky.

[IlliniKrush]

There was no evacuation. The storm intensified very quickly and no one was really ready for it. The winds shocked everyone.

Could you not see this storm coming on radar? It'll be interesting to see all the lawsuits that come from this.

[southsider2k5]

Could you not see this storm coming on radar? It'll be interesting to see all the lawsuits that come from this.

 

They said they had about 15 minutes worth of warning that something was coming. Apparently it wasn't considered too major because they told people they could go into the Pepsi Coliseum if they wanted, but it was in no way mandatory. They were planning on having the show once the rain went through.

[Balta1701]

Could you not see this storm coming on radar? It'll be interesting to see all the lawsuits that come from this.

Yes, and there was a warning 4 minutes before the thing blew over, but the storm itself wasn't there yet: this was a shock front out in front of the rain storm line.

 

When the warning was stated, the people with the goodspots near the stage didn't want to give up their spots and it wasn't mandatory.

[Balta1701]

Link

WEST LAFAYETTE, Ind. -- Structures like the stage that collapsed at the Indiana State Fair, killing five people and injuring 45 others, should be able to withstand winds of up to 70 mph, Purdue University engineering experts said.

 

Officials said gusts between 60 and 70 mph toppled the rigging above the stage on Saturday, where an estimated 12,000 people were waiting for a concert.

 

But Mark Bowman, a professor of civil engineering, said the wind strength requirement for a temporary stage in Indiana is generally 70 mph.

[Balta1701]

Link

INDIANAPOLIS -- The stage that collapsed at the Indiana State Fair on Saturday, killing five people and injuring 45 others, likely never had an official inspection, 6News has learned.

 

The Indiana Department of Homeland Security, which oversees fire and building safety, inspects rides, fire extinguishers and fire exits, does not inspect temporary structures, like stages, 6News' Kara Kenney reported.

 

"That's not part of what we do as part of the inspection process," said agency spokesman John Erickson.

 

The city of Indianapolis requires a permit for temporary structures, but inspectors do not have the authority to permit or inspect state-owned properties, like the fairgrounds.

 

"Our department is not only about protecting quality of life for our neighborhoods and our residents, but also protection in buildings," said Kate Johnson, spokeswoman for the Department of Code Enforcement. "That's why we do have inspections on construction to make sure these types of tragedies don't happen in the future."

 

Tom Doerhman, a lawyer who has represented clients in collapse cases, questioned whether the structure was set up correctly.

 

"Was the temporary structure put up correctly and was it anchored correctly? Were the towers supported? And perhaps guide wires perhaps should have been used," he said. "If we're going to avoid something like this in the future of our city, we have to ask the hard questions."

 

Doerhman said he anticipates there will be lawsuits in connection with Saturday's stage collapse.

[Texsox]

I am interested in the differences between the left and the right here. These structures are not inspected, should they be? I am assuming that the liberals here would be leaning that way, the public has to be protected. I am also assuming the conservatives will believe that we can't afford to inspect every temp stage that gets put up. The cost would be too high, that this is an isolated tragedy.

 

Do we want government in our lives inspecting temporary stages like this?

[southsider2k5]

Included graphics are at link...

 

http://www.weather.com/outlook/weather-new...luke_2011-08-15

 

Indianapolis Tragedy Not a Fluke

by Tim Ballisty, Editorial Meteorologist

Updated: August 15, 2011 10:45 pm ET

 

In a recent AP article, Governor Mitch Daniels of Indiana was quoted as saying that the blast of wind that toppled the stage rigging at the Indiana State Fair killing 5 people was a "fluke event".

 

A "fluke" by definition is an unlikely chance occurrence. The destructive and deadly wind gust on Saturday evening in Indianapolis was no chance occurrence.

 

Let's stop bucketing meteorology and weather in general into some magical mystery science that can't be explained. When a tragic accident due to existing extreme weather conditions occurs, there is a notion to just throw your hands up in the air and say, "well, nothing could have been done to avoid this" or "nobody could have seen this coming" or "it was just a damn fluke". In many instances, that just simply is not the case and it wasn't the case in the tragedy at the Indiana State Fairgrounds. Powerful, damaging winds were a known threat several days before and during the minutes leading up to the stage collapse.

 

Let's lay out the facts.

 

Severe Storms and Gust Front Move through Indianapolis

 

Line of severe thunderstorms (red, yellow, green colors) approaching Indianapolis with a gust front (faint, thin blue line) out in advance of the storms. (Image Credit NOAA with thanks to Brad Panovich)

 

The Weather Setup

The atmosphere was ripe for the development of severe weather; a clash of air masses as cooler/drier air met up with warm, humid air that was residing over the state of Indiana. A cold front swept across central Indiana on Saturday evening. It's the leading edge of the cold air mass which acts a trigger mechanism for thunderstorm development. The thunderstorms produced heavy rain, damaging winds, hail and frequent lightning.

 

Inclement Weather Had Been in the Forecast

From the Indianapolis National Weather Service: The potential for severe weather was noted as early as Thursday (August 11) and again on Friday (August 12). Forecasters addressed the severe weather threat in greater detail early on Saturday (August 13). This product highlighted that damaging winds and large hail would be the most significant impacts with any thunderstorms moving through central Indiana during the late afternoon and evening. Other risks included dangerous lightning and heavy rainfall.

 

Severe Weather Watch and Warning

At 4:45pm ET Saturday, a line of strong thunderstorms were already in progress over northern and central Illinois. The line continued to intensify as they marched into Indiana and at 5:57 pm ET a severe thunderstorm watch was issued for all of central Indiana. Hail up to one inch in diameter, wind gusts of up to 70 mph and lightning were all highlighted within the watch.

 

Severe Thunderstorm Warning for Marion County

 

Severe thunderstorm warning issued by the Indianapolis National Weather Service at 8:39 pm ET for Marion County, Indiana including Indianapolis.

 

As the line drew closer to Indianapolis, a severe thunderstorm warning was issued for Marion County, Indiana at 8:39 pm ET which included the Indianapolis metro area. By definition, a severe thunderstorm is one in which produces wind speeds of 58 mph or greater or hail one inch in diamater or more.

 

At 8:49 pm ET, ten minutes after the bulletin was issued, the stage rigging at the Indiana State Fair dramatically collapsed onto concert-goers after an outflow boundary or gust front swept through the fairgrounds. That is a ten-minute lead time for event officials to evacuate concert-goers and usher them into a place of safety and shelter. Does this seem like a fluke to you...a chance occurrence? If a known hazard - wind gusts in excess of 60 mph - is approaching, how is the destruction it causes a fluke?

 

Watch Video: Dr. Forbes Explains What a Gust Front Is

 

Senior meteorologist Stu Ostro notes that "this wasn't an isolated pop-up thunderstorm that suddenly sprouted and produced a 'pulse' type of severe wind report. Although not a derecho, what produced the wind at the concert was a strong, long-lived line of thunderstorms which had produced many severe wind/hail reports a couple of counties upstream. As noted elsewhere, there had been a severe thunderstorm watch (in fact, it was in effect well out ahead of where radar showed the storms to be at the time it was issued) and a severe thunderstorm warning issued.

 

And climatologically it's not like this was in an unusual place or time [for severe weather to strike]. It was in the evening, in the summer, in Indiana. While the absolute peak of summer severe wind occurrences on average is a little earlier (late June into July) and a bit farther to the east, the zone includes Indianapolis in August."

 

Probability (%) of Severe Winds in mid-August

 

The probability of severe winds in a given area in mid-August. (Image credit: NOAA)

 

But with all this said, it shouldn't have even come down to a warning issued by the National Weather Service. Brad Panovich, chief meteorologist at WCNCTV, Charlotte, NC, notes in a recent blog entry of his that evacuations and the priority of seeking shelter even before the issuance of a severe thunderstorm warning should have already been in place. We are talking about a recipe for disaster - an approaching line of severe thunderstorms containing high winds and lightning bearing down on a large, metal but seemingly fragile outdoor stage set with its rigging standing high and hovering over the crowd below.

 

He writes, "Problem here is you have people in an outdoor event and around a temporary structure which requires them to seek shelter at a much lower threshold. Something that should have been known by those organizing the event. One of the fatalities was a stage hand in a metal light structure running a spot light, with lightning clearly visible in the distance. Lightning alone was sufficient reason to evacuate people and since lightning was within 10 miles of the fair grounds patrons should have been seeking shelter."

 

The science of meteorology is growing by leaps and bounds especially with continuing advances in satellite and radar technology. When severe weather strikes, we are in awe of the power and the visuals but we shouldn't be in awe of the severe weather event itself. There are definitive and well-known reasons why hail reaches softball size or a tornado strikes one neighborhood but misses the other or why wind gusts reach 70 mph. This isn't voodoo, this is meteorology. The science is getting better and better each day in timing of significant weather and its location down to city landmarks and even street level..

 

Let's stop dismissing the science and making it a scapegoat. The gust front was not random. This was a severe weather event which was well predicted but still led to the deaths of 5 people who were hoping to see a Sugarland concert.

 

This is a teaching moment. There are lessons to be learned - the main one being we should all be weather aware especially when outdoors; taking the necessary precautions in advance of approaching severe weather. Knowledge is power. When attending an outdoor event, find out the weather forecast for the day beforehand and monitor the sky. Don't just leave the decision making to event officials. Use your common sense and take matters into your own hands. If you don't feel safe, do something about it. Seek safety and look after the well-being of your friends, family and others around you.

[knightni]

Pulsefest in South Bend had the same weather approaching along with the same type of stage rigging and they shut down 1 hour early that day due to the weather.

 

Someone in charge at the Fairgrounds had to have known that a bad storm was coming and postponed the event.

[RockRaines]

I am interested in the differences between the left and the right here. These structures are not inspected, should they be? I am assuming that the liberals here would be leaning that way, the public has to be protected. I am also assuming the conservatives will believe that we can't afford to inspect every temp stage that gets put up. The cost would be too high, that this is an isolated tragedy.

 

Do we want government in our lives inspecting temporary stages like this?

Is it really a political argument here?

[southsider2k5]

Pulsefest in South Bend had the same weather approaching along with the same type of stage rigging and they shut down 1 hour early that day due to the weather.

 

Someone in charge at the Fairgrounds had to have known that a bad storm was coming and postponed the event.

 

The warning about the storm was issued 10 minutes before the collapse.

[LittleHurt05]

Sugarland was about to head out on stage a minute before the collapse, but their tour manager held em back for a minute probably saving their lives.

 

Link

[IlliniKrush]

There was no evacuation. The storm intensified very quickly and no one was really ready for it. The winds shocked everyone.

So clearly they should have been. This wasn't some fluke.