Changes Looming If No Postseason

[mcgrad70]

I would rather the Sox simply fire Williams before letting Hahn go, and I tend to like Williams. I believe Hahn has a very bright future as a GM and the White Sox need to do everything in their power to retain him.

 

I also have no problem with LaRussa for 2-3 years if it means Duncan comes over. He is really about the only pitching coach in the entire game that I think is absolutely better than Cooper.

 

And I don't get this fascination with Hahn..what the heck has he ever done?

Is sounds like the same foolishness with Paxson.

Neither of these guys are qualified to run a sports organization.

[Jordan4life_2007]

And I don't get this fascination with Hahn..what the heck has he ever done?

Is sounds like the same foolishness with Paxson.

Neither of these guys are qualified to run a sports organization.

 

What had KW ever done before he was hired? I don't like Paxson at all. He still gets a free ride because of the 3 in '93. But some guys you have to give a chance to prove themselves.

[mcgrad70]

Ummm..We did win a World Series with Ozzie. I'm not saying he hasn't lost his luster or that I'm sick of the feuding between OG and KW, but like I said, we did win a WS.

 

 

Bob

 

You got career years out of a bunch of marginal to mediocre players and haven't come close to that team since.

 

[bigruss]

And I don't get this fascination with Hahn..what the heck has he ever done?

Is sounds like the same foolishness with Paxson.

Neither of these guys are qualified to run a sports organization.

It's harder to get information on assistant GMs and the impact they have on their organization, but from all accounts Hahn is a genius.

 

And I take it that you haven't looked around the league and where some of the best GMs have come from.

[iamshack]

It's harder to get information on assistant GMs and the impact they have on their organization, but from all accounts Hahn is a genius.

 

And I take it that you haven't looked around the league and where some of the best GMs have come from.

A genius as it pertains to the business side of the game. As for his knowledge of actual players and how to build a baseball team, I don't think any of us have a clue what he knows.

[southsider2k5]

What had KW ever done before he was hired? I don't like Paxson at all. He still gets a free ride because of the 3 in '93. But some guys you have to give a chance to prove themselves.

 

He oversaw the #1 farm system in baseball at the time. You should love him.

[iamshack]

What had KW ever done before he was hired? I don't like Paxson at all. He still gets a free ride because of the 3 in '93. But some guys you have to give a chance to prove themselves.

You of all people should know better.

 

He was Director of Player Development for what was widely hailed as one of the top 3 systems in all of baseball.

 

If you would have held the beliefs then that you do now, you would have been screaming from every mountaintop on Earth that he was the best candidate for the job.

[Jordan4life_2007]

He oversaw the #1 farm system in baseball at the time. You should love him.

 

 

You of all people should know better.

 

He was Director of Player Development for what was widely hailed as one of the top 3 systems in all of baseball.

 

If you would have held the beliefs then that you do now, you would have been screaming from every mountaintop on Earth that he was the best candidate for the job.

 

I was actually stickin' up for KW in this case. lol, I don't want a 'proven' GM. I want innovation.

[bigruss]

A genius as it pertains to the business side of the game. As for his knowledge of actual players and how to build a baseball team, I don't think any of us have a clue what he knows.

Which is why I said that it's hard to find information on the ast. GMs.

 

Still, look at where some of the best GMs have come form, they are smart guys who have business backgrounds that can learn the baseball stuff. Look at Daniels down in Texas, bright guy who had little to no baseball experience. Hahn has more experience and would probably have a smoother transition.

[iamshack]

Which is why I said that it's hard to find information on the ast. GMs.

 

Still, look at where some of the best GMs have come form, they are smart guys who have business backgrounds that can learn the baseball stuff. Look at Daniels down in Texas, bright guy who had little to no baseball experience. Hahn has more experience and would probably have a smoother transition.

Yeah, but these types are usually overseen by some pretty intelligent baseball people.

 

Who would serve that role for Hahn?

[T R U]

Ide rather have a GM who is going to make smart decisions for not only now but the future as well.. KW seems like hes more interested in reclamation projects and pulling a rabbit out of his ass (Peavy, Rios)

 

Does anyone think ANYONE else would have traded for Peavy, while injured, outside of us? Rios was struggling pretty bad in Toronto, was there any indication that if we didn't claim him someone else would have?

 

And I get why he made those transactions, but man they arent really working out how we needed them to and they are only going to really hurt going forward with that money on the books..

[iamshack]

Ide rather have a GM who is going to make smart decisions for not only now but the future as well.. KW seems like hes more interested in reclamation projects and pulling a rabbit out of his ass (Peavy, Rios)

 

Does anyone think ANYONE else would have traded for Peavy, while injured, outside of us? Rios was struggling pretty bad in Toronto, was there any indication that if we didn't claim him someone else would have?

 

And I get why he made those transactions, but man they arent really working out how we needed them to and they are only going to really hurt going forward with that money on the books..

Good questions.

 

Something else to think about...would anyone else have traded for Matt Thornton? Gavin Floyd? Carlos Quentin, Sergio Santos, etc?

 

Sometimes he hits and sometimes he misses...

 

I think he gets a little confident at times, and then he gets burned and walks away with his tail between his legs...

 

I think the positive by far outweighs the negative.

[kjshoe04]

Ide rather have a GM who is going to make smart decisions for not only now but the future as well.. KW seems like hes more interested in reclamation projects and pulling a rabbit out of his ass (Peavy, Rios)

 

Does anyone think ANYONE else would have traded for Peavy, while injured, outside of us? Rios was struggling pretty bad in Toronto, was there any indication that if we didn't claim him someone else would have?

 

And I get why he made those transactions, but man they arent really working out how we needed them to and they are only going to really hurt going forward with that money on the books..

I think I remember that Detroit was supposed to be in on Rios and the White Sox basically blocked him from going there.

[T R U]

Good questions.

 

Something else to think about...would anyone else have traded for Matt Thornton? Gavin Floyd? Carlos Quentin, Sergio Santos, etc?

 

Sometimes he hits and sometimes he misses...

 

I think he gets a little confident at times, and then he gets burned and walks away with his tail between his legs...

 

I think the positive by far outweighs the negative.

 

Im all for him trying to put us over the top, but some of these boom or bust moves are really going to handcuff us within the next few seasons when our window will be closing and its going to be time to rebuild/retool

[T R U]

I think I remember that Detroit was supposed to be in on Rios and the White Sox basically blocked him from going there.

 

yes, I remember that too.. but that was just speculation.. and either way, KW shouldn't be making stupid claims to block someone when the risk is getting stuck with a lousy player and an ugly contract.. if he just really wanted Rios (which I think is more likely than just a block attempt) then it was just a poor move and there's not much that can be done now because no one is taking Rios anytime soon.. or Peavy for that matter.. and if Dunn doesn't pull his head out of his ass that's 3 really bad contracts that will cripple this team when our window closes..

[iamshack]

Im all for him trying to put us over the top, but some of these boom or bust moves are really going to handcuff us within the next few seasons when our window will be closing and its going to be time to rebuild/retool

And these moves drove the Dunn/PK signings.

 

So it could really hurt us...but it could pay off as well.

 

I still haven't written off Dunn/Rios/Peavy as being reasonable producers over the next few years.

[T R U]

I still haven't written off Dunn/Rios/Peavy as being reasonable producers over the next few years.

 

I haven't either, the problem is if they aren't we are going to go through a pretty rough few years waiting for them to expire off the payroll..

 

And I honestly don't believe there is anyway Dunn doesn't get back to at least respectability next season.. you don't hit 38+ HRs for that long of a stretch and then all of the sudden cant hit .170 with no power, it makes no sense at all and is extremely flukey

 

Rios? I don't expect much from him.. he has the talent, he just doesn't give a s*** and I don't see how that's going to change.. hes got his money regardless of how he does..

 

Peavy is 12-11 with a 4.60 ERA in the bulk of his White Sox career.. that's 5th starter material, and for the money we have to pay him that's nothing to be excited about.. If he gets fully healthy and is like old Peavy, awesome.. but that seems kind of unlikely to me at this point, I sure hope it happens though..

Edited August 16, 2011 by T R U

[gatnom]

And these moves drove the Dunn/PK signings.

 

So it could really hurt us...but it could pay off as well.

 

I still haven't written off Dunn/Rios/Peavy as being reasonable producers over the next few years.

 

I think the point is that the "hurt us" option is far more likely at this point than the "pay off" option. If I'm not mistaken, Peter Gammons tweeted a few weeks back that the White Sox stand to lose something like $7 million this season. JR and Co. aren't just going to sit around and lose money for two years in a row. So, assuming that we only pare back our payroll to the ~$100 million mark instead of more to compensate for this years lost revenues, we're going to have to lose at least 3-4 of Floyd/Danks/Quentin/Buehrle/Thornton; nobody is taking Dunn/Rios/Peavy. As I said in another thread, the team missing a few of those players is still definitely competitive in this division, barring unforeseen circumstances, but that's only if Dunn/Rios/Peavy not only rebound but rebound to their well above average potentials.

 

 

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

Damn, TRU got smart all of a sudden.

[southsider2k5]

Ide rather have a GM who is going to make smart decisions for not only now but the future as well.. KW seems like hes more interested in reclamation projects and pulling a rabbit out of his ass (Peavy, Rios)

 

Does anyone think ANYONE else would have traded for Peavy, while injured, outside of us? Rios was struggling pretty bad in Toronto, was there any indication that if we didn't claim him someone else would have?

 

And I get why he made those transactions, but man they arent really working out how we needed them to and they are only going to really hurt going forward with that money on the books..

 

Teams wanted Peavy very badly. The reason the market was so limited was Jake said he would only go to a couple of teams, and Kenny talked him into coming here.

[bigruss]

Yeah, but these types are usually overseen by some pretty intelligent baseball people.

 

Who would serve that role for Hahn?

See that's a tough question to answer as a fan, since I don't really know the unsung baseball geniuses throughout the league, but I'm sure there is a good list of people that could work well with Hahn.

[bigruss]

And these moves drove the Dunn/PK signings.

 

So it could really hurt us...but it could pay off as well.

 

I still haven't written off Dunn/Rios/Peavy as being reasonable producers over the next few years.

The only one I could see really coming close to earning their salary is Dunn, I just think Peavy will have too many arm issues (leading to injuries or lack of consistent good pitches) and Rios, well I thought he was garbage a year ago.

[gatnom]

I think it's worth mentioning that he's also been in a major league front office for 11 years now. It's not like he's never seen the sport before.

 

 

[WHITESOXRANDY]

He won the battle but we all lost the war. Not bringing back Thome in 2010 is going to go down as one of the most costly blunders in KW's reign, and perhaps White Sox history. If they brought Thome back last year, and he was willing to pay for peanuts, if he hit like he did in Minnesota, maybe the Sox take the division. Minnesota would have been hurting when Morneau went down without him. And if they kept Thome, chances are they don't ever offer Dunn the contract they offered him and they dodge that bullet. Whether is fair or not fair to hold someone other than Adam Dunn accountable for his lack of production after signing with the Sox, whether it was something that could be foreseen or not, and I don't think even the most pessimistic could see a drop of this magnitude, really doesn't matter.

 

Or, they could have just kept Nick Swisher. Oakland and the Yankees have been happy with him. The only bad year of his career was with the Sox. What does that tell you?

 

He wasn't expensive. He hits from both sides of the plate, hits for power, takes walks, can play 1B and all 3 OF positions. But, the Sox....oh forget it.

[greg775]

I haven't either, the problem is if they aren't we are going to go through a pretty rough few years waiting for them to expire off the payroll..

 

And I honestly don't believe there is anyway Dunn doesn't get back to at least respectability next season.. you don't hit 38+ HRs for that long of a stretch and then all of the sudden cant hit .170 with no power, it makes no sense at all and is extremely flukey

 

Rios? I don't expect much from him.. he has the talent, he just doesn't give a s*** and I don't see how that's going to change.. hes got his money regardless of how he does..

 

Peavy is 12-11 with a 4.60 ERA in the bulk of his White Sox career.. that's 5th starter material, and for the money we have to pay him that's nothing to be excited about.. If he gets fully healthy and is like old Peavy, awesome.. but that seems kind of unlikely to me at this point, I sure hope it happens though..

 

The start of a new season won't magically turn Dunn into the old Dunn.

Will he identify what the problem is and work to improve? Or get even fat and happier this offseason with all that money guaranteed? I'd say the chances of him having merely lost it are way greater than him magically turning into the old Dunn. Like somebody said, it's almost impossible to hit what he is hitting.