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This season is a statement on organizational resiliency


Greg Hibbard

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QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 15, 2011 -> 06:15 PM)
I can pretty much guarantee that if you ask anyone on Yanks or Red Sox, they'd rather face the Sox instead of Tigers because of Verlander.

Verlander can't win 3 in a 5 game series. And he'd have to beat either Beckett or Sabathia.

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I'm not so certain that the AL Central winner will "get molested" in the playoffs. Baseball is so different than other sports. If you put the 2010-2011 Cavaliers in the NBA Playoffs, I think they go 0-1,000,000. In a million trials. If you put the Orioles in the playoffs this year, I think they can win more than 1% of the time. Any decent team, (Tigers, Sox, Indians) should be able to win 10%, even without taking into account if they're hot heading into October.

Edited by Bighurt52235
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QUOTE (Bighurt52235 @ Aug 15, 2011 -> 04:36 PM)
I'm not so certain that the AL Central winner will "get molested" in the playoffs. Baseball is so different than other sports. If you put the 2010-2011 Cavaliers in the NBA Playoffs, I think they go 0-1,000,000. In a million trials. If you put the Orioles in the playoffs this year, I think they can win more than 1% of the time. Any decent team, (Tigers, Sox, Indians) should be able to win 10%, even without taking into account if they're hot heading into October.

 

The Twins have kinda blown that theory.

 

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QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Aug 16, 2011 -> 03:50 PM)
Judging by the crowds this season, White Sox fans don't view this team as resilient.

 

overpaid and underperforming seems more like it.

 

But Donny Lucy will save the day.

 

Does fan perception and attendance define how resilient it is?

I wonder what we can then say about August and September of 2005...

 

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QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 15, 2011 -> 08:02 PM)
This.

 

The one thing I wish people would stop doing is giving this team credit for still being in the race. It is not by their resiliency, or whatever you might want to call it, that they are still in contention. It is solely that this division is laughable. In any other division in baseball, we'd be ~10 games back or more. They're not showing heart by sticking around and "digging themselves out of the hole" that they themselves created. They're winning about as few games that a team this talented could possibly win. It is only due to the sheer hilarity of the Comedy Central that we're alive at this point.

The constant comparison of us to the Cubs is another metric I wish we would discard...I wish people would understand that our competetion is the American League, not the Cubs. Winning an ugly pig contest is no consolation whatsoever.

 

 

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QUOTE (chisoxt @ Aug 16, 2011 -> 04:46 PM)
The constant comparison of us to the Cubs is another metric I wish we would discard...I wish people would understand that our competetion is the American League, not the Cubs. Winning an ugly pig contest is no consolation whatsoever.

 

Very true. I used to hang my hat on being better than the Cubs. That is, until the Sox won the World Series. Now, merely being better than them is of no consolation.

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QUOTE (chisoxt @ Aug 16, 2011 -> 04:46 PM)
The constant comparison of us to the Cubs is another metric I wish we would discard...I wish people would understand that our competetion is the American League, not the Cubs. Winning an ugly pig contest is no consolation whatsoever.

 

Very well, which of these American League teams would you rather be this season?

 

Royals, Orioles, Blue Jays, Rays, Athletics, Mariners?

 

Would you rather be the Angels at 5 back of a much stronger Rangers team (than the tribe and tigs)?

 

Would you rather be the Tigs or Tribe, who both have worse records since the middle of June than the Sox, who are gaining ground on both, albeit very gradual?

 

The bottom line is that the Sox are a top 5 AL franchise over the short and intermediate term.

 

The Cubs was merely a convenient example of a team in ACTUAL disarray.

Edited by Greg Hibbard
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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 15, 2011 -> 11:09 PM)
Trouble is, the East teams just thrashed us last week. Including beating up on that pitching.

 

Yep. Thrashed is a good word.

This team does have good pitching and defense which is supposed to make the Sox a great postseason team. Of course our defense is kind of nullified by catcher since we can't throw anybody out on the basepaths.

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I recognize that this team has grossly underperformed, and I'm often extremely angry about it.

 

However, with that all said, the existing peripherals of this team suggest a turnaround is not only possible, but somewhat likely.

 

When we had fifth starters like Danny "6.00 ERA" Wright and a rotating cast of AAA busts in 2003-4, I really didn't think they necessarily had it in them to definitely win, and when they didn't, I wasn't that surprised, honestly.

 

In 2000, when the team simply ran out of gas in the second half, and the pitching stunk in August and September, frankly a playoff collapse was fairly predictable.

 

However - the 2011 pitching is good, the bullpen in solid, and the hitting appears to be somewhat fixable/addressable if we wake up and just take our collective heads out of our asses, which is not really unlike 2005. If this team puts together a lineup at some point that can generate 4-5 runs a game, we're easily capable of going on something like a 15-6 tear.

Edited by Greg Hibbard
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QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Aug 16, 2011 -> 05:18 PM)
I recognize that this team has grossly underperformed, and I'm often extremely angry about it.

 

However, with that all said, the existing peripherals of this team suggest a turnaround is not only possible, but somewhat likely.

 

When we had fifth starters like Danny "6.00 ERA" Wright and a rotating cast of AAA busts in 2003-4, I really didn't think they necessarily had it in them to definitely win, and when they didn't, I wasn't that surprised, honestly.

 

In 2000, when the team simply ran out of gas in the second half, and the pitching stunk in August and September, frankly a playoff collapse was fairly predictable.

 

However - the 2011 pitching is good, the bullpen in solid, and the hitting appears to be somewhat fixable/addressable if we wake up and just take our collective heads out of our asses, which is not really unlike 2005. If this team puts together a lineup at some point that can generate 4-5 runs a game, we're easily capable of going on something like a 15-6 tear.

Which is an indictment on the organization, doesn't make it resilient. As you've said, there have been areas in this lineup that could have easily been addressed but we refused to do so.

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QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Aug 16, 2011 -> 06:22 PM)
Which is an indictment on the organization, doesn't make it resilient. As you've said, there have been areas in this lineup that could have easily been addressed but we refused to do so.

 

I disagree. I think there are things you can be critical of this organization of this season (not moving down/benching Dunn and Rios fast enough), but it can also take credit for certain things (sticking with Pierre, finding Humber, straightening out the mess of the bullpen).

 

It seems as though those quickest to criticize see nothing but negatives.

 

I think it is a positive that despite all the obstacles, we are still in this thing. Somehow.

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QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Aug 16, 2011 -> 07:27 PM)
Also I really don't see how you can blame the organization for believing that career .240-.285 hitters will, at some point, hit ANYWHERE near their career norms.

I agree with this.

 

In the beginning of summer people would at least TRY to pretend to avoid blaming management for believing that one of the most consistent power hitters in baseball over the past decade would continue to be consistent, or failing to see a sudden, historic collapse. But after a while people started getting lazy and just throwing it in there when ranting about how bad of a GM KW is.

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QUOTE (lostfan @ Aug 16, 2011 -> 06:34 PM)
I agree with this.

 

In the beginning of summer people would at least TRY to pretend to avoid blaming management for believing that one of the most consistent power hitters in baseball over the past decade would continue to be consistent, or failing to see a sudden, historic collapse. But after a while people started getting lazy and just throwing it in there when ranting about how bad of a GM KW is.

 

Has anyone really blamed KW for Dunn? At least on this forum? Seems to me most people blame Dunn and only Dunn for his supernatural-like failure.

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QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Aug 16, 2011 -> 07:40 PM)
Has anyone really blamed KW for Dunn? At least on this forum? Seems to me most people blame Dunn and only Dunn for his supernatural-like failure.

 

 

Oh most definitely. I've seen several people use it as one of KW's "mistakes" or something along those lines.

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QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Aug 16, 2011 -> 11:51 PM)
Oh most definitely. I've seen several people use it as one of KW's "mistakes" or something along those lines.

 

How can you not blame KW? The player isn't producing.

 

It's like those who blame Ozzie for his players not producing.

 

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