Balta1701 Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 15, 2011 -> 06:15 PM) I can pretty much guarantee that if you ask anyone on Yanks or Red Sox, they'd rather face the Sox instead of Tigers because of Verlander. Verlander can't win 3 in a 5 game series. And he'd have to beat either Beckett or Sabathia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighurt52235 Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 (edited) I'm not so certain that the AL Central winner will "get molested" in the playoffs. Baseball is so different than other sports. If you put the 2010-2011 Cavaliers in the NBA Playoffs, I think they go 0-1,000,000. In a million trials. If you put the Orioles in the playoffs this year, I think they can win more than 1% of the time. Any decent team, (Tigers, Sox, Indians) should be able to win 10%, even without taking into account if they're hot heading into October. Edited August 15, 2011 by Bighurt52235 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobryansson Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Thanks for this topic. Appreciate the differing view and the positivity. It was shot at less than I expected when I started reading the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 QUOTE (Bighurt52235 @ Aug 15, 2011 -> 04:36 PM) I'm not so certain that the AL Central winner will "get molested" in the playoffs. Baseball is so different than other sports. If you put the 2010-2011 Cavaliers in the NBA Playoffs, I think they go 0-1,000,000. In a million trials. If you put the Orioles in the playoffs this year, I think they can win more than 1% of the time. Any decent team, (Tigers, Sox, Indians) should be able to win 10%, even without taking into account if they're hot heading into October. The Twins have kinda blown that theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Aug 16, 2011 -> 04:31 PM) The Twins have kinda blown that theory. The Twins vs. the Yankees is a whole different deal though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Judging by the crowds this season, White Sox fans don't view this team as resilient. overpaid and underperforming seems more like it. But Donny Lucy will save the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Aug 16, 2011 -> 03:50 PM) Judging by the crowds this season, White Sox fans don't view this team as resilient. overpaid and underperforming seems more like it. But Donny Lucy will save the day. Does fan perception and attendance define how resilient it is? I wonder what we can then say about August and September of 2005... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxt Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 15, 2011 -> 08:02 PM) This. The one thing I wish people would stop doing is giving this team credit for still being in the race. It is not by their resiliency, or whatever you might want to call it, that they are still in contention. It is solely that this division is laughable. In any other division in baseball, we'd be ~10 games back or more. They're not showing heart by sticking around and "digging themselves out of the hole" that they themselves created. They're winning about as few games that a team this talented could possibly win. It is only due to the sheer hilarity of the Comedy Central that we're alive at this point. The constant comparison of us to the Cubs is another metric I wish we would discard...I wish people would understand that our competetion is the American League, not the Cubs. Winning an ugly pig contest is no consolation whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 QUOTE (chisoxt @ Aug 16, 2011 -> 04:46 PM) The constant comparison of us to the Cubs is another metric I wish we would discard...I wish people would understand that our competetion is the American League, not the Cubs. Winning an ugly pig contest is no consolation whatsoever. Very true. I used to hang my hat on being better than the Cubs. That is, until the Sox won the World Series. Now, merely being better than them is of no consolation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (chisoxt @ Aug 16, 2011 -> 04:46 PM) The constant comparison of us to the Cubs is another metric I wish we would discard...I wish people would understand that our competetion is the American League, not the Cubs. Winning an ugly pig contest is no consolation whatsoever. Very well, which of these American League teams would you rather be this season? Royals, Orioles, Blue Jays, Rays, Athletics, Mariners? Would you rather be the Angels at 5 back of a much stronger Rangers team (than the tribe and tigs)? Would you rather be the Tigs or Tribe, who both have worse records since the middle of June than the Sox, who are gaining ground on both, albeit very gradual? The bottom line is that the Sox are a top 5 AL franchise over the short and intermediate term. The Cubs was merely a convenient example of a team in ACTUAL disarray. Edited August 16, 2011 by Greg Hibbard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 15, 2011 -> 11:09 PM) Trouble is, the East teams just thrashed us last week. Including beating up on that pitching. Yep. Thrashed is a good word. This team does have good pitching and defense which is supposed to make the Sox a great postseason team. Of course our defense is kind of nullified by catcher since we can't throw anybody out on the basepaths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Aug 16, 2011 -> 04:16 PM) Does fan perception and attendance define how resilient it is? I wonder what we can then say about August and September of 2005... The season was on the line vs. the Tribe and the Cell wasn't even sold out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Crowds should stink vs. the Tribe, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Hibbard, greg, elrockin, anybody else I'm forgetting about, I salute you guys. If you can look at this mediocre bunch and remain positive, and even think they can not only win the division but do something against Boston/NY, you're better fans than I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) I recognize that this team has grossly underperformed, and I'm often extremely angry about it. However, with that all said, the existing peripherals of this team suggest a turnaround is not only possible, but somewhat likely. When we had fifth starters like Danny "6.00 ERA" Wright and a rotating cast of AAA busts in 2003-4, I really didn't think they necessarily had it in them to definitely win, and when they didn't, I wasn't that surprised, honestly. In 2000, when the team simply ran out of gas in the second half, and the pitching stunk in August and September, frankly a playoff collapse was fairly predictable. However - the 2011 pitching is good, the bullpen in solid, and the hitting appears to be somewhat fixable/addressable if we wake up and just take our collective heads out of our asses, which is not really unlike 2005. If this team puts together a lineup at some point that can generate 4-5 runs a game, we're easily capable of going on something like a 15-6 tear. Edited August 16, 2011 by Greg Hibbard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Aug 16, 2011 -> 05:18 PM) I recognize that this team has grossly underperformed, and I'm often extremely angry about it. However, with that all said, the existing peripherals of this team suggest a turnaround is not only possible, but somewhat likely. When we had fifth starters like Danny "6.00 ERA" Wright and a rotating cast of AAA busts in 2003-4, I really didn't think they necessarily had it in them to definitely win, and when they didn't, I wasn't that surprised, honestly. In 2000, when the team simply ran out of gas in the second half, and the pitching stunk in August and September, frankly a playoff collapse was fairly predictable. However - the 2011 pitching is good, the bullpen in solid, and the hitting appears to be somewhat fixable/addressable if we wake up and just take our collective heads out of our asses, which is not really unlike 2005. If this team puts together a lineup at some point that can generate 4-5 runs a game, we're easily capable of going on something like a 15-6 tear. Which is an indictment on the organization, doesn't make it resilient. As you've said, there have been areas in this lineup that could have easily been addressed but we refused to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Aug 16, 2011 -> 06:22 PM) Which is an indictment on the organization, doesn't make it resilient. As you've said, there have been areas in this lineup that could have easily been addressed but we refused to do so. I disagree. I think there are things you can be critical of this organization of this season (not moving down/benching Dunn and Rios fast enough), but it can also take credit for certain things (sticking with Pierre, finding Humber, straightening out the mess of the bullpen). It seems as though those quickest to criticize see nothing but negatives. I think it is a positive that despite all the obstacles, we are still in this thing. Somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 Also I really don't see how you can blame the organization for believing that career .240-.285 hitters will, at some point, hit ANYWHERE near their career norms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Aug 16, 2011 -> 07:27 PM) Also I really don't see how you can blame the organization for believing that career .240-.285 hitters will, at some point, hit ANYWHERE near their career norms. I agree with this. In the beginning of summer people would at least TRY to pretend to avoid blaming management for believing that one of the most consistent power hitters in baseball over the past decade would continue to be consistent, or failing to see a sudden, historic collapse. But after a while people started getting lazy and just throwing it in there when ranting about how bad of a GM KW is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 QUOTE (lostfan @ Aug 16, 2011 -> 06:34 PM) I agree with this. In the beginning of summer people would at least TRY to pretend to avoid blaming management for believing that one of the most consistent power hitters in baseball over the past decade would continue to be consistent, or failing to see a sudden, historic collapse. But after a while people started getting lazy and just throwing it in there when ranting about how bad of a GM KW is. Has anyone really blamed KW for Dunn? At least on this forum? Seems to me most people blame Dunn and only Dunn for his supernatural-like failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Aug 16, 2011 -> 07:40 PM) Has anyone really blamed KW for Dunn? At least on this forum? Seems to me most people blame Dunn and only Dunn for his supernatural-like failure. Yes, they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Aug 16, 2011 -> 07:40 PM) Has anyone really blamed KW for Dunn? At least on this forum? Seems to me most people blame Dunn and only Dunn for his supernatural-like failure. Oh most definitely. I've seen several people use it as one of KW's "mistakes" or something along those lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 QUOTE (lostfan @ Aug 16, 2011 -> 06:51 PM) Yes, they have. It seems to only be the absolute KW haters, though. Guys like Marty and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighurt52235 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Aug 16, 2011 -> 01:31 PM) The Twins have kinda blown that theory. False. They're what, 0-7 at being the best out of 8 (playoff teams each year)? Hardly enough to say they CAN'T win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Aug 16, 2011 -> 11:51 PM) Oh most definitely. I've seen several people use it as one of KW's "mistakes" or something along those lines. How can you not blame KW? The player isn't producing. It's like those who blame Ozzie for his players not producing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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