mcgrad70 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 QUOTE (Disco72 @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 03:55 PM) On one hand, it appears that Hahn is well respected within and outside the White Sox organization. However, there is a long-standing view in management theory that real change only comes from changing the GM. Therefore, it really depends on what the Sox want to do. Hiring an internal candidate will only lead to incremental change, at best, not the radical change that some SoxTalkers desperately want. I think a Hahn-as-GM could work, if done properly. He'd have to have the ability to make some changes (e.g., the field manager and drafting) while continuing to do the things that the organization does correctly (e.g., the pre-Rios and Peavy financial decisions, a focus on good pitching). We really don't know his true philosophy for running an organization nor how much freedom he would have to implement changes, so even if he's the best-GM-in-the-world, he could be unable to implement his ideas. Those same opportunities should have been afforded to Kenny. I don't particularly care for Kenny but fair is fair. Reinsdorf has made some colossal blunders in his ownership - on both the South and West side - and forcing Guillen down Kenny's throat is near the top of his less than stellar baseball decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgrad70 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 04:02 PM) Hahn's supposed to be one of the best negotiators in all of baseball. Well since we never go after elite baseball players because of their representation, that's a moot point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgrad70 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 07:53 PM) Every great GM has started off as an unknown quantity, just with different backgrounds and levels of experience. Hahn may not have a scouting or player development background, but he's got 11 years experience in a major league front office. Furthermore, he's incredibly intelligent with graduate degrees from both Harvard Law and Kellogg. He's got the business background that's becoming more common with new GM hires, and let's be honest, those guys have been doing a tremendous job so far. On top of that, he's a tremendous negotiator, which is a great skill to have in the current baseball environment. Beyond his resume, he's been rated as a top two GM candidate by Baseball America two years in a row. Those rankings are based on feedback from executives around the league. Plus he's been asked to interview for several GM openings in the past few years. I can't recall which positions, maybe the Pirates and Mets, but I do know the guy has turned some interviews down. So not only do other organizations value him, he must think pretty highly of himself to pass on available opportunities when there are only 30 positions in total. There's obviously a lot of risk in hiring Hahn, but not any more than hiring any other rookie GM candidate. Surround him with the right baseball people and I think he could build a quality organization. Unfortunately for us, we might have to make a decision on him this off-season, since I have a feeling the Cubs will be calling and that's one of the few jobs he's probably holding out for. So if we do make the playoffs, JR may have to make a tough decision between Hahn and KW. It's never easy going with an unknown quantity at the GM position while trying to compete, but other organizations have done so recently and successfully. If Reinsdorf thinks as highly of Hahn as those around the league do, then he very well could knock KW out of the GM position in the off-season even if we make the playoffs this year. Reinsdorf is still going to be the owner. If he completely changes the way he runs the Sox to appease Hahn, I'll never set foot in the Cell again as long as that man is the owner. Don't know how his graduate degrees translate to winning on the field. He sounds like a bean counter to me. Instead of being the GM, let him go run GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 ^Jesus... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgrad70 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 11:23 PM) I've had the argument against Hahn for the contracts of Teahen and Dunn amongst others with my guy on 35th. My guy insists he that takes his marching orders from Kenny "The Genius" Williams, which are sign these guys at the best possible price within reason. He said the team on the field is not a reflection of Rick Hahn. As I've mentioned before, he refers to Hahn as being brilliant. If the team on the field is not a reflection of Hahn, what makes him think Reinsdorf going to allow him to do anymore than Kenny? I'm not getting this unless Kenny is just being set up to fail. They lucked out and won a world series - that was not in the plans. There was no mantra of all-in in 2005 - win or die trying or some such if I recall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgrad70 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 19, 2011 -> 12:55 PM) I think my biggest issue is I kind of have a yearning to see the Sox go outside the organization for their next GM and manager. It doesn't feel like the way our organization operates is working, and Hahn has been here for a long time. Agree completely - but Reinsdorf won't allow it - he wouldn't be able to stomach the truth about the real present state of his baseball franchise. Edited August 23, 2011 by mcgrad70 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 If Hahn's greatest strength is negotiations....and Danks leaving is basically already a foregone conclusion...that's not the most helpful trait. Other than Mark Buehrle this offseason, we might be 2-3 years from ever having another big free agent signing with the White Sox after the Dunn/Rios/Peavy debacle. Ramirez already signed his extension. That's done. We have Floyd for two more years. And we don't allocate a lot of money for draft picks, so this is all a bit scary, if scouting is his biggest weakness and we arguably have one of the weakest scouting systems in the game already. That doesn't bode well at all for trades maximizing the value of Danks/Floyd, Quentin, Thornton, Ramirez and possibly Frasor or Crain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgrad70 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Aug 21, 2011 -> 04:57 PM) The Sox could use a new GM too. If the Sox or the Cubs don't plan or spending 180 million or more a year on their major league roster, they can forget about Epstein. You job becomes a lot less challenging when you got money to spend. Imagine if the White Sox had some of Boston's players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 QUOTE (mcgrad70 @ Aug 23, 2011 -> 12:36 AM) If the Sox or the Cubs don't plan or spending 180 million or more a year on their major league roster, they can forget about Epstein. You job becomes a lot less challenging when you got money to spend. Imagine if the White Sox had some of Boston's players. Lackey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Aug 20, 2011 -> 10:40 AM) I don't get why people keep bringing up free agent contracts as a sign of his negotiating abilities. 90% of free agents go to the place offering the most money. Unless you pay well over what the next offer is, like the Rangers did with A-Rod or the Cubs did with Soriano, the price you get a free agent for has little do with negotiations (at least from the team's perspective) but rather what the market bears. If you want to judge him, I'd look more at extensions, arbitration matters, and draft pick signings. Those are the areas where I see his negotiating skills coming into play. Eventually as a GM, his ability to negotiate with other GMs would be critical, but I doubt he's had much exposure to that in his current role. We didn't offer Dunn the most money. He said after we signed him in an interview on the score that there were other teams offering more money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 QUOTE (mcgrad70 @ Aug 23, 2011 -> 12:18 AM) Agree completely - but Reinsdorf won't allow it - he wouldn't be able to stomach the truth about the real present state of his baseball franchise. this is you, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 JD Drew Ortiz off and on for last 3-4 years Dice K Varitek Crawford The difference is that the Red Sox have that extra cushion and the minor league system to adsorb all those bad contracts, especially Lackey and Dice-K. And we've been able to cover the pitching issues with Peavy, more or less. The problem is we don't have Pedroia, Youkilis, Ortiz, Ellsbury and Adrian Gonzalez (who we could have had for Beckham). Instead we have Morel, Dunn, Rios, Beckham at those positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 23, 2011 -> 09:34 AM) The problem is we don't have Pedroia, Youkilis, Ortiz, Ellsbury and Adrian Gonzalez (who we could have had for Beckham). Keep in mind though...unless we had zero bad contracts on this team, we wouldn't be in position to give Gonzalez $23 million a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 23, 2011 -> 07:17 AM) this is you, no? He's certainly someone with a vendetta against Reinsdorf. I don't believe I'm exaggerating when I say that 90% of his posts are in regards to JR, and in an extremely negative light. He reminds me of those old guys you might see at a bar who blame everything on the "Jew" owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 23, 2011 -> 08:39 AM) Keep in mind though...unless we had zero bad contracts on this team, we wouldn't be in position to give Gonzalez $23 million a year. I still question the validity of there ever being a Gonzalez for Beckham deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Aug 23, 2011 -> 12:49 PM) I still question the validity of there ever being a Gonzalez for Beckham deal. It wouldn't have been Gonzalez for Beckham alone, but he could have been the centerpiece. Flowers, maybe Viciedo would probably have been in there as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 23, 2011 -> 11:41 AM) He's certainly someone with a vendetta against Reinsdorf. I don't believe I'm exaggerating when I say that 90% of his posts are in regards to JR, and in an extremely negative light. He reminds me of those old guys you might see at a bar who blame everything on the "Jew" owner. he is still ticked they did not rebuild McGillicuddy's....well they did finally but call it Bacardi at the Park and it took over 20 years to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Aug 23, 2011 -> 01:20 PM) he is still ticked they did not rebuild McGillicuddy's....well they did finally but call it Bacardi at the Park and it took over 20 years to do so. It was McCuddy's FWIW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 23, 2011 -> 01:26 PM) It was McCuddy's FWIW. that was part of my point....folks sitting at the bar tend to not know what they are talking about. Expand your horizions and visit a tavern out in Chesterton or something. They will tell you all about he "@#$%#$ owner" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Aug 23, 2011 -> 01:35 PM) that was part of my point....folks sitting at the bar tend to not know what they are talking about. Expand your horizions and visit a tavern out in Chesterton or something. They will tell you all about he "@#$%#$ owner" The bars in Chesterton suck, mostly because the people there suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Try listening to what the random interstate long-haul truck drivers are saving about a certain chief executive from Illinois. It's 10X than what I've heard "old timers" ever say about Reinsdorf, and that's quite a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan09 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 There has been a mix of rumors of Rick Hahn being pursued by the Flubs. Do you think it would negatively or posiively affect the Sox next year with an FO shakeup? I personally hope it motivate JR to do the right think and at least evaluate all the scenarios to move out KW/Ozzie. It's from Heyman but since he is not a terrible source it might have some merit. Link: https://twitter.com/#!/SI_JonHeyman/sta...523486759034880 Tweet: hearing rick hahn and josh byrnes for cubs gm job. cashman/beane/epstein long shots to go, friedman not 2 likely either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Someone is going to go, maybe both.. they are gonna catch a lot of s*** for the failures of this season there's no realistic way they both return to the team next season.. someone will be gone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 (edited) I know one thing. JR will never live down letting Hahn go if he won a World Series for the Cubs. Yet if you're Hahn, you have to be thinking that the Cubs have a much better shot at competing 2-3 years from now because they'll be rid of all their bad contracts except for Soriano. With Dunn and Rios, there's just no answer to that problem, and the ongoing dilemma which is Gordon Beckham. You might only get one chance at a GM job, you go after the Cubs job 100% and you STILL probably have the White Sox as the fallback position. Personally, Byrnes is the guy I'd go after (if I were Reinsdorf), but who actually knows what he's thinking. They're definitely not in a position like the Cubs would be to possibly get a Friedman type. If he wasn't so old, Ryan, the former Twins GM, would be my 2nd choice. The Twins' model didn't lead to a World Series title, but with a bigger potential future budget (when the new TV deal is renegotiated)...the White Sox should still be able to spend 25-33% more than the Twins because of their built-in Chicago market media advantages. Edited August 25, 2011 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I would love to see Cubs hire Ozzie. I just want him to stay in Chicago, don't really care which team he's managing at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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