Get Lillibridge Games at Short

[Marty34]

That would be one of the worst moves to start rebuilding. Especially since right now your strength moving forward is young pitching that needs stellar defense. Move Alexei at this point is pretty damn dumb, especially when finding a replacement for him would be extremely hard.

 

Ramirez is 30 not 20. Not getting better.

 

[kitekrazy]

I'd like to see Lillibridge get some time at short the remainder of the season to see if he a viable alternative to Ramirez. Ramirez should be shopped this winter.

 

I think he's the next Kotsay in waiting. Once you put a lot of faith in him by giving more chances you realize it's a mistake.

[caulfield12]

If it's the Lillibridge with a line-drive/ground ball swing, maybe.

 

If it's the "Hey, wow....I hit more homers than Adam Dunn" version who's constantly swinging for the fences with the big/long swing and striking out too much for someone so small, well, we've got 2/3rd's of our line-up already doing that.

 

Short and compact, good. Whether he could hold up over 150+ games and against a steady diet of tough RH pitching, I doubt we'll ever have the opportunity to find out.

 

If Dunn/Rios/Peavy are all coming back, Buehrle and/or Danks are gone (along with Quentin) and Lillibridge is the annointed SS...how many season tickets will that sell Mr. Smarty Marty Pants Rowland?

 

5000? 7500? It will be a dramatic falloff.

 

 

[Balta1701]

If it's the Lillibridge with a line-drive/ground ball swing, maybe.

 

If it's the "Hey, wow....I hit more homers than Adam Dunn" version who's constantly swinging for the fences with the big/long swing and striking out too much for someone so small, well, we've got 2/3rd's of our line-up already doing that.

 

Short and compact, good. Whether he could hold up over 150+ games and against a steady diet of tough RH pitching, I doubt we'll ever have the opportunity to find out.

 

If Dunn/Rios/Peavy are all coming back, Buehrle and/or Danks are gone (along with Quentin) and Lillibridge is the annointed SS...how many season tickets will that sell Mr. Smarty Marty Pants Rowland?

 

5000? 7500? It will be a dramatic falloff.

The thing is, Lillibridge has hit most of his HR's by being short and quick and crushing a line drive.

[caulfield12]

If Lillibridge joins the Sons of Anarchy in a patch-over, I'm ALL IN.

 

Seriously, Brent has made himself into quite a valuable player. That we're even talking about him as a potential starter after the way he looked 2-3 seasons ago (both putrid and horrific) is amazing in and of itself...Walker has to get some of the credit for that, doesn't he???

 

 

[elrockinMT]

That is how you rebuild sometimes.

 

 

I would respectfully have to disagree with Marty, and you if this is your stance, that this would be the answer for the Sox

[Marty34]

If it's the Lillibridge with a line-drive/ground ball swing, maybe.

 

If it's the "Hey, wow....I hit more homers than Adam Dunn" version who's constantly swinging for the fences with the big/long swing and striking out too much for someone so small, well, we've got 2/3rd's of our line-up already doing that.

 

Short and compact, good. Whether he could hold up over 150+ games and against a steady diet of tough RH pitching, I doubt we'll ever have the opportunity to find out.

 

If Dunn/Rios/Peavy are all coming back, Buehrle and/or Danks are gone (along with Quentin) and Lillibridge is the annointed SS...how many season tickets will that sell Mr. Smarty Marty Pants Rowland?

 

5000? 7500? It will be a dramatic falloff.

 

I don't think the Sox will do a total rebuild. I think Buehrle comes back, but their going to have to find money to do that. Ramirez, Quentin, Danks, and Floyd should all be options to trade. As far as season ticket sales go, the lease affords them the protection of 2M in ticket sales.

[Rowand44]

Ramirez is 30 not 20. Not getting better.

And...? He's a top 5 shortstop, he doesn't need to get better.

 

[Balta1701]

I would respectfully have to disagree with Marty, and you if this is your stance, that this would be the answer for the Sox

The answer is all about where the Sox's team salary needs to go next year.

 

If we have to get below $100 million, then you might well have to.

[Marty34]

And...? He's a top 5 shortstop, he doesn't need to get better.

 

He may not have to, but the team needs to.

[caulfield12]

I don't think the Sox will do a total rebuild. I think Buehrle comes back, but their going to have to find money to do that. Ramirez, Quentin, Danks, and Floyd should all be options to trade. As far as season ticket sales go, the lease affords them the protection of 2M in ticket sales.

 

 

2 million at what price? GA or the cheapest upper deck seats? Certainly not premium or box seat rates.

What does that even mean? So if the overall attendance was 1.8 million, they would have to recompensate the Sox for an additional 200,000 tickets?

 

Then why do they even have to worry about trading Ramirez, because ticket sales are only about 25% of their total revenue these days.

 

That's a counter-argument for why they should actually try to be as competitive as possible in 2012....instead of carving $20-30 million off the payroll.

 

 

 

You're arguing for having a younger and possibly more competitive team in the future. Certainly more profitable. But in all probability nothing resembling a very good team unless absolutely everything possible breaks the right way for the Sox with underperforming players regressing to their expected means.

Edited August 21, 2011 by caulfield12

[Marty34]

2 million at what price? GA or the cheapest upper deck seats? Certainly not premium or box seat rates.

What does that even mean? So if the overall attendance was 1.8 million, they would have to recompensate the Sox for an additional 200,000 tickets?

 

Yes. I believe it's at the average ticket price.

 

You trade Ramirez because his value will never be higher. In so doing that, you free up money to possibly sign Buehrle.

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

Yes. I believe it's at the average ticket price.

 

You trade Ramirez because his value will never be higher. In so doing that, you free up money to possibly sign Buehrle.

 

And then insert whom? Eduardo Escobar and his .640 OPS at AAA? Other than catcher, there's no other position on the diamond more difficult to fill than SS. I agree with you that what you see is what you get with Ramirez (i.e. he's peaked). But that's fine. He's extremely athletic, durable and features 3 legitimate tools: power-speed-defense. Still a relative bargain contractual wise going forward.

[Marty34]

And then insert whom? Eduardo Escobar and his .640 OPS at AAA? Other than catcher, there's no other position on the diamond more difficult to fill than SS. I agree with you that what you see is what you get with Ramirez (i.e. he's peaked). But that's fine. He's extremely athletic, durable and features 3 legitimate tools: power-speed-defense. Still a relative bargain contractual wise going forward.

 

If Ramirez is what you say he is imagine the return we'd get for him.

[iamshack]

Yes. I believe it's at the average ticket price.

 

You trade Ramirez because his value will never be higher. In so doing that, you free up money to possibly sign Buehrle.

I find that almost impossible to believe...you're saying the State of Illinois (or whomever the entity is that we lease US Cellular from) will actually compensate the White Sox at the average ticket price for every ticket less than 2 million that they do not sell?

 

No way...maybe that would trigger a clause which would allow them to terminate their lease early...but compensate them? No way...

Edited August 21, 2011 by iamshack

[Jordan4life_2007]

If Ramirez is what you say he is imagine the return we'd get for him.

 

If we had a suitable replacement in AA/AAA then you'd have some chips to bring to the table. But an infield of Morel/Escobar/Beckham from an offensive standpoint would literally kill me. As I would drink more and most certainly develop cirrhosis of the liver.

[SoxAce]

If we had a suitable replacement in AA/AAA then you'd have some chips to bring to the table. But an infield of Morel/Escobar/Beckham from an offensive standpoint would literally kill me. As I would drink more and most certainly develop cirrhosis of the liver.

 

You've just seen a .169/.297/.298/.595 and a .212/.253/.313/.566 season from Adam Dunn and Alex Rios. I think you can stomach a 5'10 150 lb young, cost controlled SS putting up 1995-96 Ozzie Guillen numbers. In fact, I remember the same people saying the same thing about Rios last season when me and Dick Allen wanted to get rid of him during the off-season. Hindsight is always 20/20 every year.

Edited August 21, 2011 by SoxAce

[Chicago White Sox]

I find that almost impossible to believe...you're saying the State of Illinois (or whomever the entity is that we lease US Cellular from, will actually compensate the White Sox at the average ticket price for every ticket less than 2 million that they do not sell?

 

No way...maybe that would trigger a clause which would allow them to terminate their lease early...but compensate them? No way...

I'm sure it's just a reduction in rent. If we draw less than 2 million fans, we just pay the state less money.

[fathom]

Can I use this thread to predict that Ramirez will be back next year, but Beckham will be traded in the offseason with Lillibridge taking over at 2nd next year? De Aza will be in LF in a platoon with someone we acquire with Rios in CF and Viciedo in RF.

[ILMOU]

Lexi has value because he's pretty good at baseball and trading him is a risk that could potentially make us a crappier team. His defense is the anchor of a terrific defensive infield which helps our pitchers a ton.

 

Now I agree that we need to see more of the Bridge, and since 2B is a less challenging defensive postion, and since our regular there has been much worse offensively than our SS anyway, maybe it makes more sense to get him some games at 2B.

 

I still view GB as the hopeful future at 2B, and believe the Elf's best role is as a super-utility guy, but in the present day it allows us to get our best nine bats on the field together by allowing Bridge and De Aza to play together. A Dunnless, Riosless, Beckhamless lineup intrigues me.

 

As soon as the troops get healthy, a lineup like this might be semi-potent:

 

Pierre LF

DeAza CF

Paulie 1B

Q DH

AJP C

Tank RF

Lexi SS

Lilli 2B

Morel 3B

 

In the meantime, hard not to be encouraged by the contributions of some of the lower-paid segment of our roster.

Edited August 21, 2011 by Stan Bahnsen

[caulfield12]

I'm sure it's just a reduction in rent. If we draw less than 2 million fans, we just pay the state less money.

 

MARTY, YOU'RE WAY OFF....hopefully you really aren't joe cowley or you're tremendously misinformed about something that could be google'd in mere seconds.

 

Can't wait for Rahn Emmanuel to get his $200 million for the Cubs boondoggle going.

 

Now I'm really curious what the rent costs (that we're not paying) are...this would be a partial explanation of why we charge so much for tickets, because it actually saves money to stay under the 2 million target while bringing in the same ticket revenues as teams like the Twins or Tigers post because of significantly higher average and premium ticket pricing. GENIUS.

 

 

 

White Sox Go Years Rent-Free

 

At U.S. Cellular Field, the White Sox lease expires in 2011. According to Christopher Lackner, spokesman for the ISFA, which owns and operates the stadium, the White Sox have paid rent nine times since 1991, but only once since 2001, when the annual attendance target was raised from 1.2 million to 1.5 million (I'm assuming that the target number is now set at 2,000,000, the number MARTY is currently referencing). Total rent paid depends on total attendance.

 

“For all practical purposes, the Sox don’t pay rent,” said Sanderson, because in most of the years when the Sox have paid rent, they have barely passed the rent threshold.

 

U.S. Cellular Field originally cost $125 million to build, but enhancements have been made since the original construction, putting the total subsidy at more than $200 million, not including interest on the debt.

 

 

 

$20 Per Ticket Subsidy

 

In “What Do We Do With the Hotel Tax Now that We Don’t Need Any More Stadiums?” a report issued September 30, 2003 by MCIC, a not-for-profit research and information organization for the Chicago metropolitan region, the organization says under current projections, by the time the White Sox lease expires in 2011:

 

“

 

■The ISFA will have spent well over $200 million of public money to build the new stadium, the scoreboard, and other capital improvements on the site;

“

 

■The White Sox will not have paid a dime more in rent;

“

 

■U.S. Cellular Field will have attracted somewhere between a quarter million and a half million fewer spectators per year than ballparks with a similar capacity and teams with a similar won/loss record;“

 

■Every person buying a ticket to attend a White Sox game from now on will have been subsidized by public money at the rate of about $20.20 per ticket.”

The study argues almost none of the money spent by the teams or fans benefits the surrounding area, and that the stadiums therefore have failed to live up to promises that were made about economic development.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edited August 22, 2011 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Can I use this thread to predict that Ramirez will be back next year, but Beckham will be traded in the offseason with Lillibridge taking over at 2nd next year? De Aza will be in LF in a platoon with someone we acquire with Rios in CF and Viciedo in RF.

 

 

We have an obligation to give Beckham at least 1/2 more season with SOMEONE not named Greg Walker.

 

Trading him for a bucket of balls would be almost more embarassing than just releasing him...except he'd probably end up doing well elsewhere, which would make KW look even dumber.

 

But there's no doubt Lillibridge at even a 750 OPS (100 less than currently) would be better than Beckham at 630.

 

The question, of course, is whether he could play everyday. If not, what LH hitter can take the other AB's? Just hate the idea of a platoon in the middle infield with how delicate the chemistry is there.

 

 

[iamshack]

Can I use this thread to predict that Ramirez will be back next year, but Beckham will be traded in the offseason with Lillibridge taking over at 2nd next year? De Aza will be in LF in a platoon with someone we acquire with Rios in CF and Viciedo in RF.

Man, I can't see Beckham getting traded at this point unless someone is really still seeing that guy we drafted in 2008 in him...otherwise, it's just not worth it to us to risk trading him and having him resurrect his former self at our expense.

[Marty34]

MARTY, YOU'RE WAY OFF....hopefully you really aren't joe cowley or you're tremendously misinformed about something that could be google'd in mere seconds.

 

Try finding the lease.

 

It appears I am wrong on the ticket subsidy, it's been a while since I read the lease. I know they get *something* from the state though under the guise of a maintenance fee.

 

[Marty34]

But there's no doubt Lillibridge at even a 750 OPS (100 less than currently) would be better than Beckham at 630.

 

He'd be better than Ramirez too.