iamshack Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 13, 2012 -> 02:41 PM) Back when I got my license, my dad had a crappy old car that he put my name on as a driver, and I actually drove that fora about 6 months. After that, he decided to sell that car, and he found that his insurance premium went up a ton. Turned out that I'd moved from being a full time driver on the car with almost no value to being a part time driver on one of the more expensive newer cars, and that was enough to increase the insurance he was paying by a lot. Don't remember the actual number but it was in the hundreds. You're probably not going to get a whole lot on a trade for a 222,000 mile car, right? But even if your daughter doesn't technically drive that car much, if you can have her name on it for the purposes of insurance, that might be worth more to you than the value of the trade on the car over the course of the next couple years. Thus, keeping it might well make you more money than selling it. That's a very good point, Balta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Feb 13, 2012 -> 01:25 PM) My wife and I have been having a debate for the past couple of weeks. We are planning on getting a new car in the next 1-3 months. My daughter is 15 and just started taking driving lessons. She has to have her permit for a minimum of 9 months so she won't be getting her license until December at the absolute earliest. The car we have now is a 2003 Grand Prix with over 222,000 miles on it. It has a few minor problems but runs pretty good for the most part (knock on wood). The debate we are having is whether or not to keep the old car for her to drive around so we don't have to worry about her getting into an accident with the new car or trading it in and knocking some money off the new car. My wife wants to keep it so our daughter can drive it and there's no chance of her wrecking the new car. I'm looking at all the added costs of keeping it when the only person that will be driving it doesn't even have a license yet since my wife doesn't drive at all. Our insurance will go up, we still have to keep up the maintenance, plus we have to find a place to park it since we only have a single car driveway that's already filled up with 3 other vehicles. We have full coverage on our car now but if when we get the new one, we could drop to liability on the old one to save a little money. The problem with that is if my daughter has a minor accident (say she backs into something and takes out a taillight and cracks the bumper) then we are on the hook for the cost of the entire repair. Also, if the car suddenly needs some major repair (engine blows, transmission goes out) then we might as well junk it and get something else. At least if we trade it in we'll get something out if it. Even if it's only $1000. We do have a suburban that she could drive if she really needed it but my wife thinks its too big for her. I think she'd actually be safer in it. It takes a lot to wreck a suburban. If you don't drive the old one, you can bump it down to storage insurance until the kid gets the license. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 13, 2012 -> 01:53 PM) If you don't drive the old one, you can bump it down to storage insurance until the kid gets the license. Another thing is you can have the policies on your other two cars written to specifically exclude your kid, which will keep your rates down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 We will definitely have to sit down and figure out our insurance costs, but I don't think that kicks in until she's actually a licensed driver. By that time she might have a part time job to help with the costs. If nothing else, we'll just make her the full-time driver on our suburban. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 13, 2012 -> 01:53 PM) If you don't drive the old one, you can bump it down to storage insurance until the kid gets the license. She'll still be driving it to get her required experience hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 BTW good selection the Sonata, I love me some Hyundais. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Feb 13, 2012 -> 01:58 PM) BTW good selection the Sonata, I love me some Hyundais. I just wonder how Hyundai's styling will appear in 4-5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (iamshack @ Feb 13, 2012 -> 02:03 PM) I just wonder how Hyundai's styling will appear in 4-5 years. As in how their current styles will look in 4-5 years or what their styles will look in 4-5 years? Thus far they have led the industry in styling, because they had to get noticed and put loads of money into R&D (in US locations primarily). I would be disappointed if they strayed from this business model. EDIT: I will be looking at a Hyundai for my first new car (bought my current 03 Hyundai from the parents who bought it for me to use in high school and during the summers), the Veloster has gotten great reviews and the Elantra and Sonata are leaders in their respective categories. Edited February 13, 2012 by bigruss22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Feb 13, 2012 -> 01:25 PM) My wife and I have been having a debate for the past couple of weeks. We are planning on getting a new car in the next 1-3 months. My daughter is 15 and just started taking driving lessons. She has to have her permit for a minimum of 9 months so she won't be getting her license until December at the absolute earliest. The car we have now is a 2003 Grand Prix with over 222,000 miles on it. It has a few minor problems but runs pretty good for the most part (knock on wood). The debate we are having is whether or not to keep the old car for her to drive around so we don't have to worry about her getting into an accident with the new car or trading it in and knocking some money off the new car. My wife wants to keep it so our daughter can drive it and there's no chance of her wrecking the new car. I'm looking at all the added costs of keeping it when the only person that will be driving it doesn't even have a license yet since my wife doesn't drive at all. Our insurance will go up, we still have to keep up the maintenance, plus we have to find a place to park it since we only have a single car driveway that's already filled up with 3 other vehicles. We have full coverage on our car now but if when we get the new one, we could drop to liability on the old one to save a little money. The problem with that is if my daughter has a minor accident (say she backs into something and takes out a taillight and cracks the bumper) then we are on the hook for the cost of the entire repair. Also, if the car suddenly needs some major repair (engine blows, transmission goes out) then we might as well junk it and get something else. At least if we trade it in we'll get something out if it. Even if it's only $1000. We do have a suburban that she could drive if she really needed it but my wife thinks its too big for her. I think she'd actually be safer in it. It takes a lot to wreck a suburban. If she is at all a decent driver, put her in the suburban. That's what I learned to drive in and I was comfortable driving vehicles of any size because of it. Also, it is safer. My first "accident" was when someone hit me from behind and I was to nervous to avoid it. The wreck totalled the other vehicle (Z24) but barely dented the bumper on mine. Turns out she was 16 with a new license as well. Her father called mine and wanted to see if everything was OK. My Dad laughed and said don't worry about it and explained the situation. The girl's father's reply....can I buy the Suburban. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Feb 13, 2012 -> 02:10 PM) As in how their current styles will look in 4-5 years or what their styles will look in 4-5 years? Thus far they have led the industry in styling, because they had to get noticed and put loads of money into R&D (in US locations primarily). I would be disappointed if they strayed from this business model. EDIT: I will be looking at a Hyundai for my first new car (bought my current 03 Hyundai from the parents who bought it for me to use in high school and during the summers), the Veloster has gotten great reviews and the Elantra and Sonata are leaders in their respective categories. The former. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Feb 13, 2012 -> 02:16 PM) The former. Hm why do you wonder? So far I see almost every major car company copying many of the same styles and designs of Hyundai's. Hondas and Hyundais actually look fairly similar nowadays from what I've seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 13, 2012 -> 02:11 PM) If she is at all a decent driver, put her in the suburban. That's what I learned to drive in and I was comfortable driving vehicles of any size because of it. Also, it is safer. My first "accident" was when someone hit me from behind and I was to nervous to avoid it. The wreck totalled the other vehicle (Z24) but barely dented the bumper on mine. Turns out she was 16 with a new license as well. Her father called mine and wanted to see if everything was OK. My Dad laughed and said don't worry about it and explained the situation. The girl's father's reply....can I buy the Suburban. My mom has driven a suburban for her company for the past 20 years. The only time I've ever seen a Suburban totaled was when one got hit by a semi. QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Feb 13, 2012 -> 02:10 PM) As in how their current styles will look in 4-5 years or what their styles will look in 4-5 years? Thus far they have led the industry in styling, because they had to get noticed and put loads of money into R&D (in US locations primarily). I would be disappointed if they strayed from this business model. EDIT: I will be looking at a Hyundai for my first new car (bought my current 03 Hyundai from the parents who bought it for me to use in high school and during the summers), the Veloster has gotten great reviews and the Elantra and Sonata are leaders in their respective categories. I debated on the Elantra. Slightly smaller car with a slightly lower price tag and the listed MPG is better. My biggest problem was that a power driver-side seat isn't even an option on the Elantra like it is on the Sonata. Plus I like having the slightly bigger back seat if I need to fit all 3 of my kids in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Feb 13, 2012 -> 02:19 PM) Hm why do you wonder? So far I see almost every major car company copying many of the same styles and designs of Hyundai's. Hondas and Hyundais actually look fairly similar nowadays from what I've seen. Do you think? I see Hyundai as using some very sharp lines in most of their vehicles right now...not sure how that "look" will hold up with time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Feb 13, 2012 -> 02:27 PM) Do you think? I see Hyundai as using some very sharp lines in most of their vehicles right now...not sure how that "look" will hold up with time. Hyundai Sonata Honda Accord I would say those are pretty familiar in terms of using sharp lines, it's a bit more exaggerated in the Sonata but I think many cars are using this style now. I think the Civic is closer to Hyundai's styling. Honda Civic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Feb 13, 2012 -> 02:55 PM) Hyundai Sonata Honda Accord I would say those are pretty familiar in terms of using sharp lines, it's a bit more exaggerated in the Sonata but I think many cars are using this style now. I think the Civic is closer to Hyundai's styling. Honda Civic I am getting ready to pull the trigger on the Kia Optima myself. Black exterior with Black leather interior. Edited February 13, 2012 by southsideirish71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Feb 13, 2012 -> 03:55 PM) Hyundai Sonata Honda Accord I would say those are pretty familiar in terms of using sharp lines, it's a bit more exaggerated in the Sonata but I think many cars are using this style now. I think the Civic is closer to Hyundai's styling. Honda Civic I guess I am just not a fan of Hyundai's styling...I like that Honda much more than the Hyundai...to me, the Hyundai looks like plastic..it doesn't look substantial or solid...again, it's just a personal thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Feb 13, 2012 -> 03:27 PM) I am getting ready to pull the trigger on the Kia Optima myself. Black exterior with Black leather interior. That's a sharp car, honestly if you take away the KIA logo you would never guess that a company such as Kia would make such a car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Feb 13, 2012 -> 04:16 PM) I guess I am just not a fan of Hyundai's styling...I like that Honda much more than the Hyundai...to me, the Hyundai looks like plastic..it doesn't look substantial or solid...again, it's just a personal thing. Which is fine, your taste is your taste. I think that Honda is pretty sharp too, I'm happy to see that they updated their designs the past few years. I wish Toyota would do the same too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Feb 13, 2012 -> 02:16 PM) I guess I am just not a fan of Hyundai's styling...I like that Honda much more than the Hyundai...to me, the Hyundai looks like plastic..it doesn't look substantial or solid...again, it's just a personal thing. I can't stand the styling on the Sonata. Before we bought our Highlander, I looked a lot at the Sonata and was really intrigued due to the overall value. Also, when I first started looking my initial commute to work was 90 miles each way, so fuel efficiency was key. That priority changed a bit, although I still got a larger SUV that was on the high-end from a fuel efficiency perspective (outside of certain hybrids). However, I could never get my hands around the style of the Sonata. I think it is god-awful, although I appreciate others like it. On the flipside, the similar Forte, looks fantastic in my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Ok, so I could use some advice, folks, especially anyone with a legal background, but all advice is welcomed. So as I posted in this thread previously, I purchased an 2007 Audi Q7 from an Audi dealership here in the Las Vegas area on January 21st. When I originally looked at and test drove the vehicle, I liked it, however, it was not equipped as well as what I wanted. I have driven around a 2001 Audi TT for the last 5.5 years, which is fairly spartan as far as gadgets go, and so when I decided to take the plunge on a new vehicle, one of the things that was important to me was that it have some of the cooler gadgets such as Navigation/Bluetooth/iPod integration. This was also important to me because Nevada law forbids a driver of a vehicle from using a cell phone/iPod. The vehicle he had in stock did not have any of these things, although it appeared as though they could be added, as the car did have the interface and buttons for them. I told the dealer that I loved the Q7 model, as it was large enough to haul my dogs around, was very well-built and well-appointed inside and out, but the particular vehicle he had in stock simply was not equipped the way I wanted my next vehicle to be if I was going to drop $30k on it. I even went so far as to assure him I would wait for him to find me a vehicle I did want before buying one elsewhere. But he pushed. At first he offered aftermarket Bluetooth and iPod integration. Then he offered aftermarket Nav as well. I told him I had no interest in aftermarket equipment (the Audi MMI system, which controls all the functions of the vehicle on a 4 x 6 screen on the center of the dash, was designed to control all these functions, and I didn't want to be utilizing that to control half the functions and then some aftermarket equipment to control other functions). Next, he offered OEM Bluetooth and iPod integration (OEM is basically the equivalent to factory installed equipment, just installed after the vehicle has left the factory). I responded that if he would throw in OEM Nav, we would have a deal. He b****ed and moaned about the OEM Nav costing upwards of $3k, but I told him if he wanted to sell me THIS car, that is what it was going to take. He agreed, and told me to come down to the dealership. When I got to the dealership, he explained to me that the vehicle was being detailed, and that I would take it home that day. They had already ordered the necessary parts to install the OEM equipment I wanted, and those would be in stock in a week or so, at which time they would have me bring the vehicle back in, do the work over the course of 2-3 days and provide me with a loaner car for those days. I said that sounded good, and said I wanted the OEM equipment to be written in to the contract. He produced a "We Owe/You Owe" form, which states the remaining things the dealer needs to do and the things the customer needs to do in addition to the standard terms of the contract. He wrote in under We Owe that they were to install OEM Bluetooth/iPod integration/Navigation. We completed the rest of the paperwork, they produced the vehicle, and promised to contact me in a few days to discuss scheduling the install of the OEM equipment. Well, it has now been 27 days since I purchased the vehicle, and I still do not have my OEM equipment. They have made excuse after excuse after excuse, and generally seem to be dragging their feet as much as possible. First they had to get the parts from New Jersey. Then they realized they ordered the wrong navigation harness. Then they realized the other parts they ordered were wrong, because my vehicle was a "mid" '07 model, not an "early" '07 model. Then they had me bring the vehicle back in because the tech needed to take another look at it. Then they had to order more parts from Germany. Now they tell me the tech that had been working on this project took a client's R8 for a test drive and T-boned someone while driving 95 mph on the surface streets and is going to be on medical leave for some time. They asked me to bring the car in again yesterday for "just 10 minutes" so the service department manager could look at it again. After the service manager looked at my vehicle, he and another guy and the salesman were talking, and I heard the salesman ask another salesman about another Q7 they have in their inventory. The salesman returned and told me that they were going to look into when they could get this scheduled and get a loaner car reserved and then they would contact me. I said "No, you've got to tell me what the plan is. This is has passed the point of reasonable and it's getting to the point where I need to start considering legal remedies." He said "well, sort of a preemptive question, but we have a Garnet Red '08 Q7 that has the features you want..." I cut him off and said "I don't want a red car." Throughout this entire process, I have tried to be reasonable and accommodating, and I have spent well in excess of 10 hours trying to work this out with them. I have had my car in for them to look at twice (this is an Audi dealership, why do they need to keep looking at a car they have been selling for 6 years now?). They have botched ordering the correct parts at least three times now. Over the past week or 10 days, I have begun to get impatient and I made it clear that I was unhappy with their level of service and told them this was unreasonable. Last Friday, I offered to even consider another car. The salesman keeps whining about how expensive and difficult this is going to be for them, so I said "let's not kill ourselves to get this equipment put into THIS car, if it's not possible." They responded by offering to buy the car back from me for $3000 less than I paid for it just a month ago and offering to give me a good deal on another vehicle. Last night, however, they seemed like they are becoming more resigned to the idea that they need to offer me another vehicle. So what can/should I do here, folks? I am going in this afternoon to talk to the salesman and the General Manager (who I have been told is now taking this on as a "pet project") and my goal is to get a resolution today. I am tired of dealing with this but I refuse to back down. I told the salesman at the time I was looking at the vehicle that I had no interest in the vehicle if it did not have this particular equipment, and so I feel like even a refund for the cost of the equipment would be unsatisfactory since I will then have a vehicle I did not want in the first place. One last note, I do love the vehicle after driving it for a month, I just want it to have the equipment I originally wanted. Edit: It's pretty clear at this point that they either cannot install the equipment they agreed to, or that it is prohibitively expensive to do so. The salesman let it slip a week ago or so that they could install the 2012 version of the equipment into the vehicle, but that it would cost $12k. I think they are trying to buy time with bs excuses that can pass for legitimate while they hope that another used Q7 comes in the door that is equipped how I want it. But if they admit now that they were at fault, I can start demanding other vehicles that are equipped like I wanted, but that are more expensive. Edited February 17, 2012 by iamshack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I found this last week, figured I might bring it with me today and tell them I'll contact the local news if they don't make an effort to resolve this. Hyundai Dealership refuses to install promised navigation THE PROMISE Sept. 10 was car-shopping day. Borborah went to Brad Benson Hyundai, interested in a 2012 Sonata with a factory-installed navigation system. "They did not have a car with navigation and I was ready to walk out, but the sales manager convinced me to buy the car and told me they would install (the navigation system) in any car I bought," Borborah said. He signed the contract for $23,500, which included a "We Owe" page that detailed services that were outstanding, including the navigation system, which would be installed within five days. In the days that followed, Borborah said, he’d call the dealership every other day to see when he could bring the car in to get the navigation system installed, but he said he kept getting put off. Finally, 10 days later, on Sept. 20, Borborah said the dealership called with unsettling news. The installation of the navigation system would cause the car’s Blue Link system — a telematics system that offers features such as emergency alerts, maintenance reminders and more — to stop functioning. The two systems wouldn’t work together. "This was not acceptable as this was not disclosed during the buying process," Borborah said. He said he spent the next day trying to reach his sales rep and the sales manager, but they were not available. Looking for relief, he next called Hyundai’s corporate office, which promised someone would research the case and call him back. On Sept. 23, corporate called, saying Borborah would have to work it out with the dealership. In the meantime, he finally reached the dealership, and it made a different kind of offer. "They are offering to refund the cost of the navigation or to install leather seats or a moon roof," he said. "Those things don’t help me navigate. If a moon roof will help me navigate, I’d like them to show me how." Borborah wasn’t interested in a refund, either. He wanted what he was promised — a car with built-in navigation. Finally, the sales manager offered to provide a replacement car that had a navigation system — which is all Borborah wanted. But then the manager asked if Borborah would be willing to pay more money. Absolutely not, he said. On Tuesday, he received a call from the dealership, saying it had located a car with navigation and Borborah should come to the dealership to pick it up. Relieved, Borborah made the trip. He saw the car and took it for a test drive. He liked it. But he didn’t like the big surprise that came next. "After spending two hours there, the sales manager asks for $5,000 more plus taxes and registration for the other car," Borborah said. "Why am being asked to pay more? They do not accept that it is their mistake and that they sold me a bad deal. They only laughed." Unsatisfied, Borborah left, navigating his way home without any electronic assistance. He called Hyundai corporate again. The company has "expectations" for dealerships but no enforcement or ability to resolve customer issues, he said he was told. "I feel cheated," he said. DELIVERING ON THE PROMISE? Bamboozled reviewed the contract. We then reached out to Brad Benson Hyundai. The sales manager said the dealership is trying to resolve the problem and satisfy the customer. How? We were put on hold. "We’re getting him another navigation," the manager said when he came back on the line. But if one navigation system would interfere with Blue Link, how could a different one be problem-free? He said he’d have someone from upper management call us back. Instead, in about two hours time, someone from Brad Benson called Borborah. "They said they would put in a different navigation system and it would work," Borborah said, noting that exactly how it would work wasn’t explained to him, either. An hour after that, a Brad Benson rep called Borborah to make an appointment for the installation. It would take a few weeks to get the part, Borborah said he was told, so they made an appointment for an Oct. 20 installation. A couple of weeks to get the part? That made Bamboozled wonder. If the dealership had truly been working on this and trying to get a compatible navigation system before we called, would it really take a couple of weeks — beyond the three weeks had already passed — to get the part? Seems unlikely. Still, we wanted to know why this different navigation system wouldn’t be problematic with Blue Link. Two messages left for the sales manager were not returned. But then Borborah called. He said two different sales reps from Brad Benson Hyundai called, asking him to tell Bamboozled to stop calling. Message received. But really? They couldn’t just call and say, "No comment," or the like? Borborah hopes the systems will work together as promised. "I’m not asking for anything special," Borborah said. "Only what was written down in the contract." He said he’ll let us know how the installation goes, and we’ll keep you posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Yep. My reaction while reading about your situation was to get the Better Business Bureau and the local news involved. You have in writing what you are owed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Hyundai Sonata is absolutely my recommendation. I have a 2004 and LOVE it. My gas millage was about 33mpg (havent tracked it recently). I can go round-trip from Schaumburg,IL to Iowa City,IA on a single tank of gas (but I'd be almost empty when I get home). So, yes. Hyundai anything is a great option. Both of my cars are Hyundai and my parents just bought a Hyundai. AND, you can feel good since I think the Sonata and Santa Fe are made in America. Edited February 17, 2012 by Athomeboy_2000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I spoke to the assistant general counsel at work and got some non-legal advice. I am bringing over a copy of that article as well as a demand letter for $12k... Should be an interesting afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Good luck shack! I still can't believe how much time these dealerships waste on situations like this, they're going to be in the red big time when it's all said and done. Do it right the first time and they make money, instead they are probably going to have to give you a more expensive car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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