Young Guns prevail again ! WHite Sox winner !

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I was going to say very early in the game thread before the game started that the Sox won't be below .500 for the rest of the year but I forgot . So I'm saying it now.

[greg775]

I was going to say very early in the game thread before the game started that the Sox won't be below .500 for the rest of the year but I forgot . So I'm saying it now.

 

If the Sox somehow got hot and did something of honor ... there'd be a select few on the board that would deserve status befitting a king.

So far I ain't close to believing, but there are a few on here that never have wavered.

[Jordan4life_2007]

This is the most active and excited the board has been in weeks. People are tuning in now just to see the young kids. Yet most were/are scared s***less at a possible 'rebuild' and conjure up a multitude of excuses on why a 'rebuild' is inedible. We'd never have to go the route of the Pirates/Royals due to market and MUCH more payroll flexibility. This is what I've been preaching all along. We don't need a Baseball America all-star team. But this franchise will never, and it's been proven, be consistent year-in, year-out until they start to grasp the importance of a strong minor league system.

[greg775]

This is the most active and excited the board has been in weeks. People are tuning in now just to see the young kids. Yet most were/are scared s***less at a possible 'rebuild' and conjure up a multitude of excuses on why a 'rebuild' is inedible. We'd never have to go the route of the Pirates/Royals due to market and MUCH more payroll flexibility. This is what I've been preaching all along. We don't need a Baseball America all-star team. But this franchise will never, and it's been proven, be consistent year-in, year-out until they start to grasp the importance of a strong minor league system.

 

Well DeAza and Flowers have passed the eye test for me. I don't know what the numbers say, but wow.

DeAza is the anti Rios in terms of hustle.

His body reminds me of the elder Rock Raines, only he can run whereas the old Rock was like Juan and lost the ability to steal.

And of course everybody with a brain loves the look of Dayan.

And of course Sale and Sergio are great young guns on the mound. Sergio looks like he's in the first year of an elite closer's role. So at least two more great seasons from him, maybe before his arm falls off?

 

--And reason for excitement tonight has to be Alexei scoring on the infield hit from second. Finally the Sox with a hustle play. Amazing.

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

Well DeAza and Flowers have passed the eye test for me. I don't know what the numbers say, but wow.

DeAza is the anti Rios in terms of hustle.

His body reminds me of the elder Rock Raines, only he can run whereas the old Rock was like Juan and lost the ability to steal.

And of course everybody with a brain loves the look of Dayan.

And of course Sale and Sergio are great young guns on the mound. Sergio looks like he's in the first year of an elite closer's role. So at least two more great seasons from him, maybe before his arm falls off?

 

--And reason for excitement tonight has to be Alexei scoring on the infield hit from second. Finally the Sox with a hustle play. Amazing.

 

I'm still not sold on De Aza over the duration of a full season. Flowers, to me, is still below average defensively and that K-rate is still way too high for him to sustain any kinda offensive consistency. But he has legitimate power and he can talk a walk. Dayan is just real. Not sure how well his glove will play. But offensively, he's a juggernaut. See what a little youth infusion can do? Everybody is so scared of young prospects. "Most prospects fail." Well no s***! There's like 4 billion minor leaguers at a time in any given year and, of course, a majority of them will fail. The truly elite organizations can identify and hit on the ones who don't fail.

[claydude14]

I'm glad I am watching meaningful games in September! f*** the Twins!

[greg775]

I'm still not sold on De Aza over the duration of a full season. Flowers, to me, is still below average defensively and that K-rate is still way too high for him to sustain any kinda offensive consistency. But he has legitimate power and he can talk a walk. Dayan is just real. Not sure how well his glove will play. But offensively, he's a juggernaut. See what a little youth infusion can do? Everybody is so scared of young prospects. "Most prospects fail." Well no s***! There's like 4 billion minor leaguers at a time in any given year and, of course, a majority of them will fail. The truly elite organizations can identify and hit on the ones who don't fail.

 

Yeah but how do we know Dayan can last a year? You could say that about anybody who is unproven. If DeAza hits big slump, then Lilly can sub for him a few games. Or even Rios.

I think DeAza has proven he deserves a chance. Problem is Rios is blocking him for one reason - salary.

Sucks.

I think Rios' presence will still cost the Sox the rest of this year. Oz will play him and that ain't good.

Edited August 30, 2011 by greg775

[Jordan4life_2007]

Yeah but how do we know Dayan can last a year? You could say that about anybody who is unproven. If DeAza hits big slump, then Lilly can sub for him a few games. Or even Rios.

I think DeAza has proven he deserves a chance. Problem is Rios is blocking him for one reason - salary.

Sucks.

I think Rios' presence will still cost the Sox the rest of this year. Oz will play him and that ain't good.

 

I obviously don't have a trained eye. But you can look at Dayan's skillset and be confident that he has a better chance to succeed long-term than somebody like De Aza or Flowers. The guy has done nothing but rake for a year and a half now and his BB rate has improved dramatically. Score one for KW and Co., and you know that means something coming for me, for identifying and signing this guy. Now we've already dropped the ball as far as waiting this long (and he'd still be in the minors had CQ not gotten hurt) to call him up. He should be in the lineup EVERY game from here on out.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Actually with Dunn and Rios sucking its a rebuild on the fly when you think about it. The Minor league system hasn't sucked as much as everyone's been saying so far.SOx have pretty good pitching if Viciedo Flowers and De Aza continue to hit and stay in the race then we get Q back and who knows what can happen or even without Q.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Actually with Dunn and Rios sucking its a rebuild on the fly when you think about it. The Minor league system hasn't sucked as much as everyone's been saying so far.SOx have pretty good pitching if Viciedo Flowers and De Aza continue to hit and stay in the race then we get Q back and who knows what can happen or even without Q.

 

Actually, it has sucked. It's sucked majorly. What has it produced since the winter of '07? And I don't mean just internally. But externally as well. Don't say Peavy. Even if he had worked out, that was a salary dump and nothing more. No upgrades have been made at the trade deadline the last couple years despite glaring needs because there was nothing in our inventory (outside of Dayan) to dangle.

[MurcieOne]

Flowers, to me, is still below average defensively and that K-rate is still way too high for him to sustain any kinda offensive consistency.

 

Really? I've felt that Flowers looks better behind the plate than he has in previous call-ups. Besides a few balls that have gotten away, he's caught our pitching staff well, and has thrown out a somewhat respectable amount of runners.

 

I think there is room for improvement, but I think his game has matured behind the plate as well.

 

[Lillian]

I obviously don't have a trained eye. But you can look at Dayan's skillset and be confident that he has a better chance to succeed long-term than somebody like De Aza or Flowers. The guy has done nothing but rake for a year and a half now and his BB rate has improved dramatically. Score one for KW and Co., and you know that means something coming for me, for identifying and signing this guy. Now we've already dropped the ball as far as waiting this long (and he'd still be in the minors had CQ not gotten hurt) to call him up. He should be in the lineup EVERY game from here on out.

 

I don't think that any of us who like de Aza think that he has anything close to the potential bat of Viciedo. They're completely different players. However, de Aza has tools that Viciedo doesn't. His speed and defensive ability make him a potential lead off hitter to replace Pierre next season.

[greg775]

I obviously don't have a trained eye. But you can look at Dayan's skillset and be confident that he has a better chance to succeed long-term than somebody like De Aza or Flowers. The guy has done nothing but rake for a year and a half now and his BB rate has improved dramatically. Score one for KW and Co., and you know that means something coming for me, for identifying and signing this guy. Now we've already dropped the ball as far as waiting this long (and he'd still be in the minors had CQ not gotten hurt) to call him up. He should be in the lineup EVERY game from here on out.

 

I'm not arguing with u, but I think DeAza equally should be in the lineup every game from here on out. The Sox may be too far out of it to win the division, but it'd be nice to get DeAza a full month worth of at bats. And Flowers a ton of at bats too.

 

[chw42]

I'm still not sold on De Aza over the duration of a full season. Flowers, to me, is still below average defensively and that K-rate is still way too high for him to sustain any kinda offensive consistency. But he has legitimate power and he can talk a walk. Dayan is just real. Not sure how well his glove will play. But offensively, he's a juggernaut. See what a little youth infusion can do? Everybody is so scared of young prospects. "Most prospects fail." Well no s***! There's like 4 billion minor leaguers at a time in any given year and, of course, a majority of them will fail. The truly elite organizations can identify and hit on the ones who don't fail.

 

Flowers should be fine. You can always off-set a high K rate with a high walk rate to prevent terrible slumps.

 

And there is a reason why De Aza was let go by the Marlins. He's not that talented. His skillset is probably that of a borderline starting CF/4th outfielder. However, what is encouraging about De Aza this season is the power he's shown, it's a dramatic improvement over what he's done in previous years at any level. Either way, he should stick on the roster the next couple of years as he'd be a useful 4th outfielder at the least.

[Quin]

I don't think that any of us who like de Aza think that he has anything close to the potential bat of Viciedo. They're completely different players. However, de Aza has tools that Viciedo doesn't. His speed and defensive ability make him a potential lead off hitter to replace Pierre next season.

 

This.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Really? I've felt that Flowers looks better behind the plate than he has in previous call-ups. Besides a few balls that have gotten away, he's caught our pitching staff well, and has thrown out a somewhat respectable amount of runners.

 

I think there is room for improvement, but I think his game has matured behind the plate as well.

 

He looks slow and uncomfortable out there to me a lot of the time. I'm not saying I want Molina/Wieters. But I think unless he's going to be a beast offensively (I'm talking top 5 or so among AL catchers offensively), his defense is not good enough to catch everyday.

 

 

I don't think that any of us who like de Aza think that he has anything close to the potential bat of Viciedo. They're completely different players. However, de Aza has tools that Viciedo doesn't. His speed and defensive ability make him a potential lead off hitter to replace Pierre next season.

 

You're the one poster that liked De Aza from the beginning. And I mean before the season even started. So you get points for that. I just don't look at him and see a guy I'd be willing to intrust 550-600 ABs to.

 

 

I'm not arguing with u, but I think DeAza equally should be in the lineup every game from here on out. The Sox may be too far out of it to win the division, but it'd be nice to get DeAza a full month worth of at bats. And Flowers a ton of at bats too.

 

I agree. De Aza, Flowers and Dayan should get the majority of the run from here on out. Rios/Dunn made their beds. They both suck. And it's much more important to evaluate Flowers these last 30 games or so than a well past his prime, $6 million dollar catcher who offers nothing outside of a single.

[chw42]

He looks slow and uncomfortable out there to me a lot of the time. I'm not saying I want Molina/Wieters. But I think unless he's going to be a beast offensively (I'm talking top 5 or so among AL catchers offensively), his defense is not good enough to catch everyday.

 

 

 

 

You're the one poster that liked De Aza from the beginning. And I mean before the season even started. So you get points for that. I just don't look at him and see a guy I'd be willing to intrust 550-600 ABs to.

 

 

 

 

I agree. De Aza, Flowers and Dayan should get the majority of the run from here on out. Rios/Dunn made their beds. They both suck. And it's much more important to evaluate Flowers these last 30 games or so than a well past his prime, $6 million dollar catcher who offers nothing outside of a single.

 

We lived with A.J.'s bad arm for the past 6 years while he was a barely above average offensive catcher. I think I can live with Flowers having a .340-.350 wOBA while being a bad defensive catcher.

Edited August 30, 2011 by chw42

[Jordan4life_2007]

Flowers should be fine. You can always off-set a high K rate with a high walk rate to prevent terrible slumps.

 

And there is a reason why De Aza was let go by the Marlins. He's not that talented. His skillset is probably that of a borderline starting CF/4th outfielder. However, what is encouraging about De Aza this season is the power he's shown, it's a dramatic improvement over what he's done in previous years at any level. Either way, he should stick on the roster the next couple of years as he'd be a useful 4th outfielder at the least.

 

Yeah, if the walk rate can remain around 10-12% then he should be fine. But he does K a ton. And you will see pitchers make adjustments and dare him to swing the bat at some point.

Edited August 30, 2011 by Jordan4life

[Jordan4life_2007]

I agree with you regarding Flowers, chw42.

[MattZakrowski]

Yeah, if the walk rate can remain around 10-12% then he should be fine. But he does K a ton. And you will see pitchers make adjustments and dare him to swing the bat at some point.

 

And I think he has just enough power to make them pay and back off some.

[macsandz]

De Aza real good game . 2 hits, sac bunt, stole 3rd to set up the sac fly by Flowers, nice running catch coming in on a ball in the early innings. Alexei with the tag up on a fly to center then scoring on the infield hit too. Viciedo 1st to 3rd on a De Aza single and a stolen base. Ozzie ball by the kids !

Please stop calling this "Ozzieball".

 

Ozzieball is wasting precious outs and playing overpaid, under-performing losers out of position and slotted into detrimental lineups designed around no statistical logic.

[Jordan4life_2007]

And I think he has just enough power to make them pay and back off some.

 

We'll see. Hey, I'm excited. Nobody loves young talent more than I do. I just hope we do our due diligence and give these guys every opportunity to show what they can do. Rios, Dunn and AJ can all kiss my ass. That's sunk cost no matter how you slice it.

[Wanne]

I'm just as excited about every one of these guys. I think Flowers has blown away any expectations. He's done a phenomenal job IMO...there's not reason to think he can't build on it. Like I said in a previous thread...(and granted it's the AFL)...but watching him hit just saying "damn". I'd have no problem handing the reins to Tyler right now. Not that I dislike AJ...I'm just ready for change.

 

Same can be said for De Aza. What is there not to like about this kid? I'm not gonna sit here just waiting for a slump from him like it seems some might do. BTW...LOVED the Hawk rip on Rios about "being in the game" on the sinking liner De Aza snagged. Viciedo...he just needs to play...everyday. Good god...if Rios could be jettisoned...and outfield of CQ, De Aza and Viciedo would rock. Even if he can't be...this is what should be.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Please stop calling this "Ozzieball".

 

Ozzieball is wasting precious outs and playing overpaid, under-performing losers out of position and slotted into detrimental lineups designed around no statistical logic.

I said that tongue in cheek. Just was saying they did the things Ozzie ball is supposed to emulate like sac bunts , steals and taking the extra base. Saw that a lot tonight.

Edited August 30, 2011 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[kjshoe04]

Still not sold on De Aza and Flowers. Viciedo looks much improved from last year in his composure at the plate. Can't wait to see more of these three though.