Young Guns prevail again ! WHite Sox winner !

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I'm just as excited about every one of these guys. I think Flowers has blown away any expectations. He's done a phenomenal job IMO...there's not reason to think he can't build on it. Like I said in a previous thread...(and granted it's the AFL)...but watching him hit just saying "damn". I'd have no problem handing the reins to Tyler right now. Not that I dislike AJ...I'm just ready for change.

 

Same can be said for De Aza. What is there not to like about this kid? I'm not gonna sit here just waiting for a slump from him like it seems some might do. BTW...LOVED the Hawk rip on Rios about "being in the game" on the sinking liner De Aza snagged. Viciedo...he just needs to play...everyday. Good god...if Rios could be jettisoned...and outfield of CQ, De Aza and Viciedo would rock. Even if he can't be...this is what should be.

I agree about DeAza . I know Balta was clamoring for him a lot. So he gets credit for that but the speed, the extra base power the hustle the fielding even can bunt . I know small sample size but he looks pretty damn good.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Actually, it has sucked. It's sucked majorly. What has it produced since the winter of '07? And I don't mean just internally. But externally as well. Don't say Peavy. Even if he had worked out, that was a salary dump and nothing more. No upgrades have been made at the trade deadline the last couple years despite glaring needs because there was nothing in our inventory (outside of Dayan) to dangle.

I'm just saying with 3 guys all from AAA leading this little resurgence it's got people excited again and that's the product of the minor leagues no matter how you slice it. And its looking better with the trade for Stewart and a number or good young arms like Sale and Santos ( yea I know a lot of you won't count Santos) Reed,and Infante. Hell, if Beckham keeps bombing maybe Kuhn can be a decent hitter.

Edited August 30, 2011 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[greg775]

We'll see. Hey, I'm excited. Nobody loves young talent more than I do. I just hope we do our due diligence and give these guys every opportunity to show what they can do. Rios, Dunn and AJ can all kiss my ass. That's sunk cost no matter how you slice it.

 

Little harsh on AJ. He's had a very good year. It's not his fault if he can't throw anymore.

Offense - good this year.

Defense and handling of pitchers - Good except for throwing which is horrific.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

He looks slow and uncomfortable out there to me a lot of the time. I'm not saying I want Molina/Wieters. But I think unless he's going to be a beast offensively (I'm talking top 5 or so among AL catchers offensively), his defense is not good enough to catch everyday.

With Flowers behind the plate, the Sox's starting pitchers have a 2.57 ERA over their past eight games. The bullpen has a 2.01 ERA in its past 13 games - the past 10 of which have been handled by Flowers. (taken from a Tribune article) and Buerhle said he's fun to throw to being such a big target and frames the pitches well and MB never shook him off. Said Tyler called a good game.

 

[SoxAce]

Really? I've felt that Flowers looks better behind the plate than he has in previous call-ups. Besides a few balls that have gotten away, he's caught our pitching staff well, and has thrown out a somewhat respectable amount of runners.

 

I think there is room for improvement, but I think his game has matured behind the plate as well.

 

That is what I've been very impressed with about him. He calls a great game. Could of had three straight shutouts (as far as game calls) but Floyd made one mistake (oh and Kinney). And another in an interview (can't remember which coach) that said he is always asking questions, trying to get better. Just a great work ethic.

Edited August 30, 2011 by SoxAce

[hogan873]

Man is it fun to watch these games now. I'm particularly impressed with Tyler Flowers. His hitting is above and beyond what most of us expected, and it seems like he's built a great relationship with the pitchers. As far as his hitting, I've seen people say "sample size", and while I agree, that sample size is getting bigger and the hitting is still there. I didn't like seeing AJ go down with an injury, but that did result in us being able to see what Flowers can do.

Edited August 30, 2011 by pittshoganerkoff

[Lillian]

I was searching for de Aza's split OBP at Charlotte in 2010, and finally found it in an old post of mine from last winter.

His OBP was .420 vs. RHP. Combine that with this year's AAA split stats vs. RHP of .393 OBP, to go along with his .330 Battng Avg. and .532 Slugging, and you have to be impressed.

I've said for a couple of years now that he is a very good hitter vs. RHP, and he is demonstrating that at the Big League level. His MLB numbers may be a small sample size, but we should only be looking to see if he can translate his very good and consistent Minor League numbers to the Majors, and so far he is doing that.

 

Remember he hit .300 when he was called up last year, and he's doing it again. Basically, he has been a .300 hitter at every level for 3 years now. I honestly don't know what there is about him that anyone could dislike, except that he is not a big power hitter. However, that is not his game. He should be a terrific lead off hitter, especially vs. RHP.

 

I hope that he is given that spot next year, and I'll be very interested to see how he does, especially compared to Pierre. I love JP's work ethic, but he doesn't have the tools that de Aza has, and now that he seems to have slowed down a step, Juan isn't even a great base stealer. It will really be nice to see de Aza up there with men on base, knowing that he can drive the ball to the gap, or at least hit a sacrifice fly.

 

Even though I'd like to see the Sox dump that Rios contract, they would have a very good defensive outfield with both de Aza and Rios out there.

If they do decide to trade Quentin, an outfield of de Aza, Rios and Viciedo would be fine. But I'd really prefer the offense that Quentin, de Aza and Viciedo would give them.

With de Aza leading off, and both Quentin and Viciedo in the middle of the line up with Paulie, this team could be so much better than this year's offense.

 

Dunn is the key. He must rebound, and provide that one, lone left handed presence that has been so badly missing since Thome left.

Edited August 30, 2011 by Lillian

[tonyho7476]

I've got tickets for tonight's game...I'm excited to go! Haven't really been this excited since Opening Day! Go Royals and Go Zach Stewart! 4 Games out after tonight!

 

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I agree about DeAza . I know Balta was clamoring for him a lot. So he gets credit for that but the speed, the extra base power the hustle the fielding even can bunt . I know small sample size but he looks pretty damn good.

 

Balta and I have been highly supportive of De Aza ever since he was signed last year. The guy has never really been given a legit chance at the major league level. He unexpectedly won the Marlins starting CF job over a couple of their top prospects a few years ago and got off to a great start before suffering a bad ankle injury. He never really recovered from that and didn't get an extended look ever since. He is a good defensive player, has good wheels, puts the bat on the ball and has pretty decent gap to gap power. The reason the Marlins gave up on him is because they had a bunch of talent in the OF or coming up whom they were higher on (Maybin, Hermida, Stanton, Coghlan, Willingham). I was willing to even give him Pierre's role at the start of the season. He still has to prove he can keep this up over a full year, but I've always liked what I've seen in him going all the way back to watching him with the Marlins.

[Balta1701]

Balta and I have been highly supportive of De Aza ever since he was signed last year. The guy has never really been given a legit chance at the major league level. He unexpectedly won the Marlins starting CF job over a couple of their top prospects a few years ago and got off to a great start before suffering a bad ankle injury. He never really recovered from that and didn't get an extended look ever since. He is a good defensive player, has good wheels, puts the bat on the ball and has pretty decent gap to gap power. The reason the Marlins gave up on him is because they had a bunch of talent in the OF or coming up whom they were higher on (Maybin, Hermida, Stanton, Coghlan, Willingham). I was willing to even give him Pierre's role at the start of the season. He still has to prove he can keep this up over a full year, but I've always liked what I've seen in him going all the way back to watching him with the Marlins.

^this.

[Balta1701]

Still not sold on De Aza and Flowers. Viciedo looks much improved from last year in his composure at the plate. Can't wait to see more of these three though.

Compared to last year...Slowey tried to work him up and in with the fastball. In this game, he had a combination of laying off it, fouling it off, and then singling hard on the ground past the 3b when one snuck just a little too far out over the plate.

[southsider2k5]

Flowers should be fine. You can always off-set a high K rate with a high walk rate to prevent terrible slumps.

 

And there is a reason why De Aza was let go by the Marlins. He's not that talented. His skillset is probably that of a borderline starting CF/4th outfielder. However, what is encouraging about De Aza this season is the power he's shown, it's a dramatic improvement over what he's done in previous years at any level. Either way, he should stick on the roster the next couple of years as he'd be a useful 4th outfielder at the least.

 

The knock on Ale has never been his skill set, it has been staying healthy. He would have been a starter for Florida a few years back if it wasn't for injuries.

[southsider2k5]

Yeah, if the walk rate can remain around 10-12% then he should be fine. But he does K a ton. And you will see pitchers make adjustments and dare him to swing the bat at some point.

 

That's what scares me about Flowers. Eventually pitchers are going to stop giving him pitches to hit to see if he will start chasing. With his K%, you might see a major slump. The key will be if he can make the adjustments back or not.

[NorthSideSox72]

And there is a reason why De Aza was let go by the Marlins. He's not that talented. His skillset is probably that of a borderline starting CF/4th outfielder. However, what is encouraging about De Aza this season is the power he's shown, it's a dramatic improvement over what he's done in previous years at any level. Either way, he should stick on the roster the next couple of years as he'd be a useful 4th outfielder at the least.

 

I was thinking it was more this...

 

Balta and I have been highly supportive of De Aza ever since he was signed last year. The guy has never really been given a legit chance at the major league level. He unexpectedly won the Marlins starting CF job over a couple of their top prospects a few years ago and got off to a great start before suffering a bad ankle injury. He never really recovered from that and didn't get an extended look ever since. He is a good defensive player, has good wheels, puts the bat on the ball and has pretty decent gap to gap power. The reason the Marlins gave up on him is because they had a bunch of talent in the OF or coming up whom they were higher on (Maybin, Hermida, Stanton, Coghlan, Willingham). I was willing to even give him Pierre's role at the start of the season. He still has to prove he can keep this up over a full year, but I've always liked what I've seen in him going all the way back to watching him with the Marlins.

 

Injuries are what killed his chances, I think. Going into 2012, I would feel better about De Aza than Pierre, of that I am confident.

 

[Balta1701]

What is worth pointing out again on Flowers and De Aza is that these guys don't need to be all stars. They don't need to put up 1.000+ OPS numbers.

 

De Aza has good speed, plays good defense, and so far hits the ball with authority. His numbers are going to come down a bit from here, he's not this good, but with what he's doing right now there's no reason he can't be a .280 hitter with some moderate pop. His walk rate right now is 1/2 of what it was in Charlotte, so there is still some work to be done here, but a guy who could leadoff, play good defense, be cheap, and give a .750ish OPS would be a substantial upgrade from expensive 50% CS rate Juan Pierre.

 

Flowers is sorta the same boat. He's not going to keep up this batting average with that number of strikeouts, but he's taking walks, his strikeout rate isn't "THAT" much worse than it was in the minors, and when he hits the ball he hits it with authority. There's no reason he can't put up an .800 OPS out of the catcher's spot while being cheap.

[Lillian]

What is worth pointing out again on Flowers and De Aza is that these guys don't need to be all stars. They don't need to put up 1.000+ OPS numbers.

 

De Aza has good speed, plays good defense, and so far hits the ball with authority. His numbers are going to come down a bit from here, he's not this good, but with what he's doing right now there's no reason he can't be a .280 hitter with some moderate pop. His walk rate right now is 1/2 of what it was in Charlotte, so there is still some work to be done here, but a guy who could leadoff, play good defense, be cheap, and give a .750ish OPS would be a substantial upgrade from expensive 50% CS rate Juan Pierre.

 

Flowers is sorta the same boat. He's not going to keep up this batting average with that number of strikeouts, but he's taking walks, his strikeout rate isn't "THAT" much worse than it was in the minors, and when he hits the ball he hits it with authority. There's no reason he can't put up an .800 OPS out of the catcher's spot while being cheap.

 

Of course, none of the youngsters will likely continue at their current torrid pace, . It is however, encouraging to see them demonstrate that they can contribute at the Major League level. I agree with you in that they don't need to be All Stars. The Sox only need Flowers and de Aza to not represent more holes in the lineup. Viciedo, on the other hand, will likely need to be a Star, and I think he will be.

[Pants Rowland]

What is worth pointing out again on Flowers and De Aza is that these guys don't need to be all stars. They don't need to put up 1.000+ OPS numbers.

 

De Aza has good speed, plays good defense, and so far hits the ball with authority. His numbers are going to come down a bit from here, he's not this good, but with what he's doing right now there's no reason he can't be a .280 hitter with some moderate pop. His walk rate right now is 1/2 of what it was in Charlotte, so there is still some work to be done here, but a guy who could leadoff, play good defense, be cheap, and give a .750ish OPS would be a substantial upgrade from expensive 50% CS rate Juan Pierre.

 

Flowers is sorta the same boat. He's not going to keep up this batting average with that number of strikeouts, but he's taking walks, his strikeout rate isn't "THAT" much worse than it was in the minors, and when he hits the ball he hits it with authority. There's no reason he can't put up an .800 OPS out of the catcher's spot while being cheap.

 

I agree. In reality, over a full 162 games you can live with them coming down the earth, enduring some slumps and riding hot streaks. I can handle that....as long as it starts next year. Now I want an unreal sustained performance from those three to give the Tigers a good run for the next month.

[Balta1701]

Of course, none of the youngsters will likely continue at their current torrid pace

Except Dayan. He's keeping that 1.917 OPS.

[Milkman delivers]

I'm just as excited about every one of these guys. I think Flowers has blown away any expectations. He's done a phenomenal job IMO...there's not reason to think he can't build on it. Like I said in a previous thread...(and granted it's the AFL)...but watching him hit just saying "damn". I'd have no problem handing the reins to Tyler right now. Not that I dislike AJ...I'm just ready for change.

 

Same can be said for De Aza. What is there not to like about this kid? I'm not gonna sit here just waiting for a slump from him like it seems some might do. BTW...LOVED the Hawk rip on Rios about "being in the game" on the sinking liner De Aza snagged. Viciedo...he just needs to play...everyday. Good god...if Rios could be jettisoned...and outfield of CQ, De Aza and Viciedo would rock. Even if he can't be...this is what should be.

 

I agree with all of these points. And Flowers has really taken some strides back there since we last saw him. I'd expect him to continue to build on that. I think you just have to get new management working with these guys (probably promote the AAA hitting coach) and see how much more they can progress.

[SoxAce]

Dayan already has as many walks in 8 plate appearances (2 BBs) than he he did in 106 last year.

[TheBlackSox8]

De Aza to me is a poor mans Carl Crawford.

[bighurt574]

With Viciedo, De Aza, and Flowers in the lineup, this team is actually fun to watch for the first time since opening week.

 

Now if we could just get Quentin back so Rios can return to the bench...

[ILMOU]

De Aza to me is a poor mans Carl Crawford.

 

I'll take that!

[fathom]

Dayan already has as many walks in 8 plate appearances (2 BBs) than he he did in 106 last year.

 

He's 4 behind Morel

[LittleHurt05]

De Aza to me is a poor mans Carl Crawford.

 

Hopefully he's like the old poor Carl Crawford from Tampa, not the new rich Crawford in Boston