NorthSideSox72 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Ozzie to FLA for whatever the Sox can get, KW promoted to some phantom EVP role, Hahn becomes GM. That would be my preference at this point. Time for new blood and a new attitude, not to mention a manager who doesn't consistently make bone-headed decisions. And yes, Walker needs to go too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Hahn Dave Martinez Tim Laker Don Cooper It really is not that hard is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 12:47 PM) It's in our best interests to win baseball games, and continuing to play Dunn and Rios anywhere in the lineup with any consistency doesn't help us achieve that. Absolutely. But you've got to balance your immediate needs with your long-term goals as well. You've got 20-25% of your payroll tied up in Rios and Dunn over the next few years. Getting nothing out of them in the future is going to handcuff this team every bit as much as it has this year. You've got to try and mitigate the damage by getting them back on track, so that you don't compound the $20 million you've wasted this year into $80 million over the term of their contracts. The best way to do that was to try to get them consistent PA's in the lowest-leverage situations possible, with the hopes that they can turn things around and get back on track. I agree that Dayan should have been brought up earlier, but from appearances, it was Ozzie that was blocking that move, not Kenny. Ozzie also could have been batting Dunn and Rios lower in the order rather than in critical spots like 4th and 5th, in order to minimize the damage to our scoring opportunities. He did not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 If Ozzie is fired and KW stays, I'll be happy. If Ozzie and KW are both fired, I'll be happiest. If KW is fired and Ozzie stays, I'll be pissed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 12:54 PM) Absolutely. But you've got to balance your immediate needs with your long-term goals as well. You've got 20-25% of your payroll tied up in Rios and Dunn over the next few years. Getting nothing out of them in the future is going to handcuff this team every bit as much as it has this year. You've got to try and mitigate the damage by getting them back on track, so that you don't compound the $20 million you've wasted this year into $80 million over the term of their contracts. The best way to do that was to try to get them consistent PA's in the lowest-leverage situations possible, with the hopes that they can turn things around and get back on track. I agree that Dayan should have been brought up earlier, but from appearances, it was Ozzie that was blocking that move, not Kenny. Ozzie also could have been batting Dunn and Rios lower in the order rather than in critical spots like 4th and 5th, in order to minimize the damage to our scoring opportunities. He did not. I think everyone agrees you had to have Dunn in the lineup most days, for some period of time. For example, I think most people would agree that benching the guy permanently after just one month, given his track record, would have been stupid. But as one month turned into two, three, four and now five... at some point, it becomes clear that playing him every day is not working. He needs like a week off, then start playing part time. And then help him get a serious post-season regimen going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 12:54 PM) Absolutely. But you've got to balance your immediate needs with your long-term goals as well. You've got 20-25% of your payroll tied up in Rios and Dunn over the next few years. Getting nothing out of them in the future is going to handcuff this team every bit as much as it has this year. You've got to try and mitigate the damage by getting them back on track, so that you don't compound the $20 million you've wasted this year into $80 million over the term of their contracts. The best way to do that was to try to get them consistent PA's in the lowest-leverage situations possible, with the hopes that they can turn things around and get back on track. I agree that Dayan should have been brought up earlier, but from appearances, it was Ozzie that was blocking that move, not Kenny. Ozzie also could have been batting Dunn and Rios lower in the order rather than in critical spots like 4th and 5th, in order to minimize the damage to our scoring opportunities. He did not. They are not getting better this year. Write them off and see what happens for the rest of the season. Start fresh with them in the spring. Enough is enough they are not just underachieving they are epically bad and there is no hyperbole there. I like that McNeil and Spiegel got a hold of cowley B&B and the morning guys seem to like him and egg him on. The SCORE was getting pretty chummy there with cowley or a while. The guy really wants to be jay jr. The funny thing is the mariotti was gone before guillen yet it is mariotti's replacement that is going to get guillen canned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 11:59 AM) They are not getting better this year. Write them off and see what happens for the rest of the season. Start fresh with them in the spring. Enough is enough they are not just underachieving they are epically bad and there is no hyperbole there. I like that McNeil and Spiegel got a hold of cowley B&B and the morning guys seem to like him and egg him on. The SCORE was getting pretty chummy there with cowley or a while. The guy really wants to be jay jr. The funny thing is the mariotti was gone before guillen yet it is mariotti's replacement that is going to get guillen canned. I have no problem with them sitting Dunn almost every game until it is entirely clear that we cannot win this division. Same goes for Rios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 11:34 AM) This . . . I could have sworn that Phil Rodgers broke that in a Sunday column. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 11:39 AM) Of course Ozzie could have not played those players...... Unfortunately the bench players don't always make suitable replacements. Out of 25 players few on this team can hit a baseball. At the same time maybe Kenny didn't push for some of these guys that recently came up from Charlotte is because he trusts that staff better than the Sox staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 12:59 PM) They are not getting better this year. Write them off and see what happens for the rest of the season. Start fresh with them in the spring. Enough is enough they are not just underachieving they are epically bad and there is no hyperbole there. I like that McNeil and Spiegel got a hold of cowley B&B and the morning guys seem to like him and egg him on. The SCORE was getting pretty chummy there with cowley or a while. The guy really wants to be jay jr. The funny thing is the mariotti was gone before guillen yet it is mariotti's replacement that is going to get guillen canned. Bingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 01:03 PM) I could have sworn that Phil Rodgers broke that in a Sunday column. Bingo. Joe Cowardly didn't break s*** here. It was Phil. If you don't believe it use the advanced google search and check the time line. Phil is the first one with the report. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-01...tract-ownership In the wings: Guillen should be in demand if he does leave the Sox after 2011. The Marlins contacted Reinsdorf for permission to talk to Guillen about their managerial opening late last season and were told they could if they would give up a significant player in exchange, most likely 23-year-old outfielder-first baseman Logan Morrison, who had a .390 on-base percentage in 62 games as a rookie. The Marlins passed, opting instead to give interim manager Edwin Rodriguez the job on a permanent basis. But Rodriguez got only a one-year deal, so the job could be there for Guillen after 2011. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 01:04 PM) Unfortunately the bench players don't always make suitable replacements. Out of 25 players few on this team can hit a baseball. At the same time maybe Kenny didn't push for some of these guys that recently came up from Charlotte is because he trusts that staff better than the Sox staff. The fact that one of the best hitters if not the best hitter in the International league didnt make an appearance on the roster until the end of Aug is egg on the face of this organization. We are a below avg offensive team, and NOTHING was done to correct this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 01:12 PM) The fact that one of the best hitters if not the best hitter in the International league didnt make an appearance on the roster until the end of Aug is egg on the face of this organization. We are a below avg offensive team, and NOTHING was done to correct this. And he's only here now because CQ got hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 01:13 PM) And he's only here now because CQ got hurt. Its pathetic IMO. When you are below avg as a TEAM in a certain aspect of the game and you just happen to have one of the best young hitters in the minors waiting in the wings and you keep him in AAA, you are inept at your job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 02:29 PM) I've compared Ozzie to Ditka so many times. It's almost a perfect comparison. I'd say Ozzie is Ditka on steroids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 01:10 PM) Bingo. Joe Cowardly didn't break s*** here. It was Phil. If you don't believe it use the advanced google search and check the time line. Phil is the first one with the report. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-01...tract-ownership You are wrong about Cowley. Sure Phil Rodgers broke it back in JANUARY. Cowley says talk has been renewed. There have been at least two known heated blowups between Guillen and Williams, according to sources. But even more significant is the recent talk in baseball circles that the White Sox have been getting a feel for managerial candidates. Sources said that also included renewing talks with the Florida Marlins about compensation for Guillen with the team set to open its new stadium next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 David Schuster @Dan....Cowley and Ozzie are incredibly close. That's how Joe gets all his info. LMAO. It is pretty bad when your peers are taking notes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 01:31 PM) You are wrong about Cowley. Sure Phil Rodgers broke it back in JANUARY. Cowley says talk has been renewed. That was talked about months ago as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) That was a great column. I like these comments by Oz: “Let’s get this straight: I’m the face of the franchise,’’ Guillen said. “People can say what they want. There’s a lot of blame going around out there, but I blame myself because I guess I’m the one with the balls around here. It’s not because I’m cocky or an arrogant guy, but I can leave Chicago with my head up. That’s what’s important to me. “Jerry is the one that has to decide on if [Kenny and I] can make it work. We’re doing it, getting by. We’re not best friends, but we make due. We’re professional. We do what’s best for the ballclub. Our job is more important than our friendship. “I do know I’m trying to win games, period.’’ I still don't see how Ozzie can get the boot considering this team's average record with this s***-ass lineup. You don't fire a manager who has a WS title to his credit and an average record this year. Get rid of Kenny; keep Ozzie. What's so difficult about that? Ozzie is right. He is the face of the franchise. I'd say odds of both taking the fall though are 90/10. Like the article said, this is costing Jerry money now. Edited August 30, 2011 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 If ozzie was a good manager that would make sense, however he is not. He consistently gets decent talent and under achieves. He also is a terrible in game manager and makes puzzingly bad lineups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 07:50 PM) If ozzie was a good manager that would make sense, however he is not. He consistently gets decent talent and under achieves. He also is a terrible in game manager and makes puzzingly bad lineups. The terrible in game manager thing puzzles me. Every manager in baseball is a terrible in-game manager because there are so many decisions you can second guess. This year, Gardy is a bum. Is he a terrible manager? Our new manager is gonna get roasted on here next year as well. Batting Rios fourth is his fight with KW continuing. That is obvious. They both are gonna be shown the door. I'd love to see everybody's opinion on here. I wonder how many still like Ozzie. In a poll I would say. Keep Ozzie?- Yes. Keep KW - No. Edited August 30, 2011 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 07:55 PM) The terrible in game manager thing puzzles me. Every manager in baseball is a terrible in-game manager because there are so many decisions you can second guess. This year, Gardy is a bum. Is he a terrible manager? Our new manager is gonna get roasted on here next year as well. Batting Rios fourth is his fight with KW continuing. That is obvious. They both are gonna be shown the door. Go back and read the thread I started a month ago about the 10 games that got away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 07:50 PM) If ozzie was a good manager that would make sense, however he is not. He consistently gets decent talent and under achieves. He also is a terrible in game manager and makes puzzingly bad lineups. And is beginning to alienate the fan base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 01:50 PM) If ozzie was a good manager that would make sense, however he is not. He consistently gets decent talent and under achieves. He also is a terrible in game manager and makes puzzingly bad lineups. Decent talent = decent record nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 12:00 PM) And is beginning to alienate the fan base. Beginning ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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