Williams On Hot Seat Too?

[Gldfinger5]

If Kenny goes, whoever the new GM is won't be able to establish a precedent over Ozzie.

 

Ozzie getting a new GM would spell doom for the franchise.

 

That's a good point. If anyone (especially Hahn) is brought in, they obviously know what type of situation they're coming into. Who would want that? Kenny is clearly a unique personality when it comes to GMs, but I think he's handled the relationship well, as public as it has been.

[Quin]

That's a good point. If anyone (especially Hahn) is brought in, they obviously know what type of situation they're coming into. Who would want that? Kenny is clearly a unique personality when it comes to GMs, but I think he's handled the relationship well, as public as it has been.

 

How many other GM's wouldn't have fired Ozzie on the spot/blasted him in the media right now?

[Gldfinger5]

How many other GM's wouldn't have fired Ozzie on the spot/blasted him in the media right now?

 

Jim Hendry would give him 5 more opportunities and then put him on the Disqualified List for 30 days. Oh, I'm sorry, you probably meant "Active GMs."

[South Side Fireworks Man]

The Sox are on their longest winning streak of the season and are trying to fight their way back into contention and Guillen decides to go public with his whining about not honoring his contract next year unless they give him an extension.

 

Guillen and his family cause a negative vibe around this team in the media and with the fanbase. It's no wonder that they only draw 21K on a night like this. Let's hope JR takes notice and finally realizes what the problem is. Fire Guillen.

[greg775]

You know what sucks about this all? Today should have been a good day for the Sox organization with them making up ground while getting contributions from young guys as well as Buehrle pitching a gem. Instead, Ozzie's posse decide today would be a good day to complain in the media about how all of this, and today was a real crappy day for Sox fans. You can no longer use the "he's trying to take the negative attention off of the players" BS excuse.

 

Cmon. It's not like they are making up a ton of ground where it's some reason for celebration.

This is big business and I applaud Ozzie for answering questions honestly.

 

How can you not love this guy with this quote:

"And I am a good manager, even if people don’t think I am. Cocky and arrogant, but there are worse guys out there than me.”

 

He is awesome. Sign him up. Move KW upstairs or whatever. Promote Hahn.

Edited August 31, 2011 by greg775

[SI1020]

He is awesome. Sign him up. Move KW upstairs or whatever. Promote Hahn.

He's an insufferable boor.

 

[Quin]

Cmon. It's not like they are making up a ton of ground where it's some reason for celebration.

This is big business and I applaud Ozzie for answering questions honestly.

 

How can you not love this guy with this quote:

"And I am a good manager, even if people don’t think I am. Cocky and arrogant, but there are worse guys out there than me.”

 

He is awesome. Sign him up. Move KW upstairs or whatever. Promote Hahn.

 

Because he's cocky and arrogant while losing.

[greg775]

Because he's cocky and arrogant while losing.

 

If we finish over .500 the country is going to view it as the Marlins getting a steal.

They get a WS winning manager whose best years are ahead of him as he's still very young. And the Sox wouldn't extend him? Crazy.

 

We could still have a s*** September and all will look fine in canning Ozzie.

But Sox potentially could be mocked over this one if we have a good month.

[Rowand44]

If we finish over .500 the country is going to view it as the Marlins getting a steal.

They get a WS winning manager whose best years are ahead of him as he's still very young. And the Sox wouldn't extend him? Crazy.

 

We could still have a s*** September and all will look fine in canning Ozzie.

But Sox potentially could be mocked over this one if we have a good month.

Ya, the rest of the f***in country hasn't had to deal with his idiocy for 8 years now.

 

It's beyond hilarious to me that you love Ozzie so much while believing he's batting Rios 4th out of spite. Do you realize how bat s*** crazy that is? My f***in god.

[Quin]

If we finish over .500 the country is going to view it as the Marlins getting a steal.

They get a WS winning manager whose best years are ahead of him as he's still very young. And the Sox wouldn't extend him? Crazy.

 

We could still have a s*** September and all will look fine in canning Ozzie.

But Sox potentially could be mocked over this one if we have a good month.

 

His best years we're 04-08.

 

They are not a head of him.

[whitesoxfan101]

Getting rid of Kenny seems like the move this off-season, assuming we fall on our faces, and don't make the playoffs. I'm willing to give Ozzie another year. Besides, we have Rick Hahn ready to take over.

 

For some reason, I still like Ozzie....I think because he puts a face on our franchise...although I realize a lot of people don't like that face?!?

 

People are very unhappy with the state and direction of the franchise. I just hope KW does the right thing, fires KW and Oz, and lets Hahn take over as GM and pick his own manager. It would be so refreshing. We'll never forget 2005, but we have to move on from it.

[mcgrad70]

Why can't guillen just worry about baseball and remembering that rios sucks. That is all he needs to do. guillen continues to look like the little pain in the ass cousin that nobody pays attention too so he sets the cat on fire.

 

Instead of watching Venezuelan news and Mexican soap operas maybe figure out that alex rios can not even comprehend how many outs there are in the top of 9th

 

Bump KW up replace him with Hahn and let ozzie and his ego go

 

This is ditka all over again.

 

If Williams and Hahn are here together there's really no change.

Does anyone really believe that Paxson isn't the de facto GM of the Bulls? Please.

It's just the Reinsdorfian way of taking some of the heat off himself and the people he put in place to run these organizations.

Edited August 31, 2011 by mcgrad70

[mcgrad70]

Getting rid of Kenny seems like the move this off-season, assuming we fall on our faces, and don't make the playoffs. I'm willing to give Ozzie another year. Besides, we have Rick Hahn ready to take over.

 

For some reason, I still like Ozzie....I think because he puts a face on our franchise...although I realize a lot of people don't like that face?!?

 

 

Some face...the lunatic of baseball..

[greg775]

His best years we're 04-08.

 

They are not a head of him.

 

You know how young Ozzie is? This is getting rid of a guy way too young.

Because of the fact he and Kenny can't get along, they both can't complain if they are shown the door though.

Edited August 31, 2011 by greg775

[mcgrad70]

I don't believe managers in baseball play that much into the outcome of a game. I think the most important part of his job is getting everyone to believe in him and want to play for him. Ozzie does that, for the most part. There was a recent survey that showed Ozzie was the 6th most popular manager to play for. Heard it on the score.

 

If the players don't want to play for him, like a Mike Quade type, then the guy has to go.

 

He doesn't hold his players accountable - that's why they like him.

 

[mcgrad70]

He should be on the hot seat.

Swisher 1 and 2, Tony Pena, the Jackson trade, Teahen, 2 albatross contracts (3 if you add Peavy).

 

 

You could almost put 1 and 2 after the Jackson trade.

Giving up Hudson to get him and then letting him go for what we got in return - nothing.

Edited August 31, 2011 by mcgrad70

[mcgrad70]

What if Ozzie is a Hahn guy?

 

 

But Kenny should have been afforded the same opportunity.

Reinsdorf once again is to blame for all of this.

He should have let Kenny rise or fall with his own guy.

To now give Hahn the opportunity to do that is grossly unfair - and I don't care for Williams.

That's why the Sox just simply need to be sold.

Edited August 31, 2011 by mcgrad70

[mcgrad70]

I guess that means Ozzie told Cowley he's resigning.

 

Anyway...could also mean that they have an offer on the table from Florida.

 

Imagine his first trip into Chicago - Sox and Cubs fans at Wrigley Field united - 2012 must be the end of time.

 

[mcgrad70]

That was a great column.

 

I like these comments by Oz:

“Let’s get this straight: I’m the face of the franchise,’’ Guillen said. “People can say what they want. There’s a lot of blame going around out there, but I blame myself because I guess I’m the one with the balls around here. It’s not because I’m cocky or an arrogant guy, but I can leave Chicago with my head up. That’s what’s important to me.

 

“Jerry is the one that has to decide on if [Kenny and I] can make it work. We’re doing it, getting by. We’re not best friends, but we make due. We’re professional. We do what’s best for the ballclub. Our job is more important than our friendship.

 

“I do know I’m trying to win games, period.’’

 

I still don't see how Ozzie can get the boot considering this team's average record with this s***-ass lineup. You don't fire a manager who has a WS title to his credit and an average record this year.

 

Get rid of Kenny; keep Ozzie. What's so difficult about that? Ozzie is right. He is the face of the franchise.

I'd say odds of both taking the fall though are 90/10. Like the article said, this is costing Jerry money now.

 

C'mon..The very fact the manager props himself up to be face of the franchise is enough reason to get rid of him.

Who's the face of the Yankees, the Red Sox, the Phillies....certainly not their manager.

 

[mcgrad70]

Good point, but KW thought he ordered the steak. He ended up with some 80/20 greasy hamburger.

 

 

KW and Ozzie are about to learn that fat meat ain't greasy.

[mcgrad70]

Does that mean I'm going to have to watch Ozzie on ESPN for the next 15 years

 

You can always turn the channel when you have enough

 

[mcgrad70]

Cmon. It's not like they are making up a ton of ground where it's some reason for celebration.

This is big business and I applaud Ozzie for answering questions honestly.

 

How can you not love this guy with this quote:

"And I am a good manager, even if people don’t think I am. Cocky and arrogant, but there are worse guys out there than me.”

 

He is awesome. Sign him up. Move KW upstairs or whatever. Promote Hahn.

 

Ozzie doesn't have to do anything for the rest of his life...how many of us could get away with making comments like that at our places of employment?

They'll love him on that idiotic Fox network - he should feel right at home.

Edited August 31, 2011 by mcgrad70

[mcgrad70]

If we finish over .500 the country is going to view it as the Marlins getting a steal.

They get a WS winning manager whose best years are ahead of him as he's still very young. And the Sox wouldn't extend him? Crazy.

 

We could still have a s*** September and all will look fine in canning Ozzie.

But Sox potentially could be mocked over this one if we have a good month.

 

After Jenks got the last out in Houston, he's been on a rapid decline.

If the Sox win their division it will be despite him.

 

[southsider2k5]

So that makes two columnists to call out Joe Cowardly for his leg humping of Ozzie Guillen.

 

http://www.csnchicago.com/08/30/11/Ballant...tm_medium=email

 

Ballantini: A tired tale, ever exhausting by the day

 

By Brett Ballantini

CSNChicago.com White Sox Insider

 

Ignorance more frequently

begets confidence

than does knowledge

—Charles Darwin

 

There is a sad, sad story unfolding on the South Side, one that, barring a strong September and a stirring run into the postseason, will change the Chicago White Sox as we’ve known them for the last eight seasons.

 

The silly game of chicken, stoked by self-interested media and happily obliged by White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen with full "what, me worry?" delivery, is pushing the brain trust of the club farther apart than ever.

 

“I’m not going to be back here for a one-year contract [without knowing] what to do next year,” Guillen said before Tuesday’s game against the Minnesota Twins. “Eight years with this organization, I’m guessing I — we — did a pretty good job. The players did it for me. We deserve more than [a lame-duck contract].”

 

By way of response, GM Ken Williams told reporters on Tuesday, almost immediately after Guillen was sure not to disrespect anyone but Williams — his boss, with his comments: “Winning takes care of a lot of things. I might even get extension if we win.”

 

This is something that Guillen seems to not realize.

 

Guillen had his 2012 option picked up, amid much fanfare and goodwilll, at the open of SoxFest back in January. Since then, the fabulous Ozzie-Kenny feud that distracted the White Sox throughout 2010 has mostly laid dormant. Until now.

In typical Ozzie fashion, his private confab on Monday with Chicago Sun-Times columnist Joe Cowley has led to screaming CST headlines indicating that the dissolution of the GM-manager relationship is imminent. It’s not the first time that this dynamic duo has churned up such flotsam, the jetsam of which roils over into the next day, when Guillen is left to have to answer for the mess he conspired.

 

When Guillen is simply in B.S. mode, or is having a wacky off-mic chat about his playing days, his schtick is fun and playful. When it concerns, once again, his future in Chicago — and his demands made Monday, with his team an utterly disappointing single game above .500 on the precipice of September make the timing particularly curious — the notion that he has no idea whose dog took a dump in the middle of the living room is disingenuous at best.

 

Crying wolf has now put Guillen’s boss, Williams — who Ozzie conveniently avoids labeling as such — in position to again have to answer to conjecture and posturing from his former close friend and teammate.

 

A year ago, recall, Guillen began pouting about not having had his 2012 option picked up, saying that he just wanted to know he where he stood. Sound familiar?

 

As the Ozzie-leaving hype reached its usual hysterical proportions, with the White Sox in Oakland and little media presence to fan the flames, I cut right to the chase and asked Ozzie what he was getting at, and if he needed a multiyear extension to feel wanted by the White Sox. Bluff called, he backed off, saying no, but sticking to the notion that he still needed to know where he stood.

 

There was another interesting face-saving move by Guillen on Tuesday evening. After insisting all offseason that the feud raging between him and Williams was a terrible distraction to his club — going so far as to say that he felt little or no remorse over fighting with Williams but incredible regret for having those troubles being dragged into the clubhouse and affecting his team’s performance, perhaps even costing them a division title — he now sees little negative ramifications of spouting off about a contract during his club’s sole, and perhaps most important, hot streak of the season.

 

“The players don’t care about [Ozzie-Kenny controversy],” Guillen waved off today. “They don’t read that stuff.”

 

Dealing with the media in such a daily-grind fashion can be a killer, for sure, but never has Ozzie spun circumstances more quickly, and favorably, than with that turnabout. Which is made even worse by its fatuousness. Of course players are aware of the friction — I have been told as much by several this season, when the furor between Guillen and Williams has supposedly simmered down. One player said to me, with little need for me to confirm it, “those two don’t like each other very much, do they,” before noting that the tension was still palatable in the clubhouse and not helpful when it comes to winning games now or attracting winning players in the future.

 

Amazingly, some of Guillen’s other addresses pregame made his managerial demands tame by comparison. While lauding his rookies and the job that the Triple-A Charlotte Knights staff has done in preparing players like Dayan Viciedo and Tyler Flowers for major-league duty, he insisted that the .570 OPS/.168 average with runners in scoring position of Alex Rios (yes, that OPS trails even that of the belatedly-benched Adam Dunn) should continue to not only play, but bat cleanup.

 

“Dayan Viciedo is not a cleanup hitter right now,” said Guillen, straightfaced. “Let the boys with more experience, more salary handle that.”

 

Rios does have more experience than Viciedo. To be certain, he has more salary than Viciedo. More ability to wreak havoc, or more importantly, protect Paul Konerko, in the No. 3 spot the only legitimate hitter the White Sox have boasted all year? Hardly.

 

Williams owes the White Sox fan base some answers, sure, particularly regarding Viciedo’s role on the 2011 White Sox, or lack thereof. At the moment Williams owes Ozzie, who in spite of nudging his boss under the bus claims that he and Williams “have a better relationship than any GM-manager in baseball” and that Williams is as “great” a GM as Ozzie is a manager, absolutely nothing aside from a short text to his former teammate that he might want to be in first place — or at least managing at his .526 career clip, rather than a touch over .500 — before laying down any similar demands in the future.

 

Guillen has forged his legacy forever in Chicago by piloting the White Sox to the 2005 title. But even the prospect of his future statue in a USCF concourse won’t detract for the final, bitter taste he leaves with the White Sox if all doesn’t fall his way in the stretch run: That at a time his team needed him to lead and put personal matters aside, he chose to distract from the task at hand with yet more honest but selfish talk about his future.

 

Williams — with little more job security than Ozzie — summed it up right: Just win, baby. Everything else takes will take care of itself.

 

It’s not as solemn as “beast mode” or as pithy as “Sox pride,” but if the brain trust survives to thrive together in future years, they may way to tap into Williams’ beloved Oakland lore and print up some Sox-style Raiderswear for next season.

 

Brett Ballantini is CSNChicago.com's White Sox Insider. Follow him @CSNChi_Beatnik on Twitter for up-to-the-minute Sox information.

[southsider2k5]

SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman

Amazing ozzie guillen thinks its ok to keep talking about his contract during race. If a player did that, hed be castigated