bozzie Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 It only took 6 months ... ... finally, the Adam Dunn ordeal is over. Or is it? From the start, Adam Dunn was nothing but dung. And yet he held a lineup spot, most often in the heart of the order, through it all. Ozzie Guillen made his bones on being a tough, no-nonsense manager who played producers and sat underachievers. But with Dunn, it was kid gloves all the way. A .163 hitter getting pencilled into the lineup in late-August is beyond incredulous, it's pure farce. Which is what Ozzie has sought to make it from the beginning. Guillen has always been "praised" as a National League Manager operating in the American League, as if somehow using a square peg to fill a round hole is an asset. Ozzie's obsession with National League-like "smallball" prompted first the ouster of Hall of Famer Frank Thomas, then the release of Thomas's replacement, Jim Thome. In 2010, Kenny Williams decided to let Ozzie fall flat on his face. He jettisonned Thome and replaced him with Ozzie's dream-DH: Mark Kotsay. Kotsay was an utter disaster as a run producer, and Kenny had proved his point. Because in 2010, proving Ozzie wrong was more important to Kenny Williams than winning ballgames. For 2011, Kenny pulled out all the stops to bring in Adam Dunn. And what did Ozzie do? Did he shun him the way he had Thomas? Did he damn him with faint praise the way he had Thome? Nope. He played Dunn, and fellow Williams whiff Alex Rios, far longer than either of them deserved. Dunn has the lowest average of any hitter with enough at-bats to qualify for the batting title, by a long shot, and is having a season of mythic proportions. Rios is still in the lineup, hitting cleanup last night. Because in 2011, proving Kenny wrong has been more important to Ozzie Guillen than winning ballgames. This morning, Ozzie hit the newspapers to complain again that, despite having a contract extention for 2012 picked up at the beginning of this season, he feels unwanted yet again by the White Sox. Is it any wonder? He sacraficed the season to his petty fued with Williams who, whether Ozzie likes it or not, is his boss. Both of these guys have proven their egos are such that they are unable to work together and would prefer jeopardize not only pennant chances, but a multimillion dollar business. The fact that White Sox fans had to suffer through 400 at-bats of .163 hitting stands as testament to the farce this organization has become with Guillen and Williams at the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 welcome to the board. Your title, about the Dunn thing being over... seems to have no connection to the rest of your post. What makes you think its over? For this season, or the future? And from the beginning he was nothing but "dung"? really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozzie Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 01:11 PM) welcome to the board. Your title, about the Dunn thing being over... seems to have no connection to the rest of your post. What makes you think its over? For this season, or the future? And from the beginning he was nothing but "dung"? really? Can you point to a stretch of more than 1 - or 2 - games where Dunn hasn't been "dung"? . . . The point of the post is clear - Dunn and Rios were played all year long by Ozzie to make Kenny look bad, after Kenny made Ozzie look bad by allowing him Mark Kotsay as DH. Ozzie Guillen sacraficed the Sox season for his own ego. Ozzie's ego has sabatoged things before, but never has an entire season been given away. Until now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (bozzie @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 02:16 PM) Can you point to a stretch of more than 1 - or 2 - games where Dunn hasn't been "dung"? . . . The point of the post is clear - Dunn and Rios were played all year long by Ozzie to make Kenny look bad, after Kenny made Ozzie look bad by allowing him Mark Kotsay as DH. Ozzie Guillen sacraficed the Sox season for his own ego. Ozzie's ego has sabatoged things before, but never has an entire season been given away. Until now. What does the bolded mean? Until now... what? What changed today that I missed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (bozzie @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 07:16 PM) Can you point to a stretch of more than 1 - or 2 - games where Dunn hasn't been "dung"? . . . The point of the post is clear - Dunn and Rios were played all year long by Ozzie to make Kenny look bad, after Kenny made Ozzie look bad by allowing him Mark Kotsay as DH. Ozzie Guillen sacraficed the Sox season for his own ego. Ozzie's ego has sabatoged things before, but never has an entire season been given away. Until now. Not cool referring to any Sox player this way. Plus I don't think your reasoning makes ny sense anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 If Ozzie is sabotaging the season to make KW look bad by refusing to sit big salary players that arent performing, wouldn't benching half of the "all in" contracts also make KW look bad? Regardless of the outcome (leave the "veterans" in the lineup to figure things out - or - bench the veterans and play the "kids") KW was going to look bad - Simply because the Sox have not completely torn through the AL Central and win 11 playoff games. When you market your team on a "we spent a bunch of money for these expensive players, so come watch them play" and they suck, the GM is going to look bad, no matter how the manager handles the situation. I am not saying Ozzie did or did not sabatoge anything.... I am simply stating that the only positive outcome for Kenny Williams was that the Sox DECIDEDLY win the ALC and perform well in the playoffs as well. Ozzie on the other hand, at least has plausible deniability - in that the Sox are still over 500 and 5 games back in the division - WITH those awful players still on the active roster. *shrug* Whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Jillian Michaels' Abs @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 02:34 PM) If Ozzie is sabotaging the season to make KW look bad by refusing to sit big salary players that arent performing, wouldn't benching half of the "all in" contracts also make KW look bad? Absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) You bash Ozzie for liking 'small ball', but turn around and bash Ozzie for playing Adam Dunn, a player with a proven track record of 40+ homer seasons. Obsession with 'small ball' had NOTHING to do with letting go of Frank Thomas or even Jim Thome. Thome was not replaced with a 'small ball player'...he was replaced with a power hitter, who just happen to suck in Chicago. Taking the extra base, running hard, stolen bases, sacrifices...isn't SMALL ball, it's just good baseball. Plenty to rip Ozzie about (his handling of the pitchers for one) and it is likely time for him to go, but he has NEVER been adverse to having a team with home run hitters...He does however, like a certain degree of flexibility in the lineup to where it's not always station to station. Ozzie can be a fool, but on this issue he and not you, is correct. Edited August 30, 2011 by kwolf68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozzie Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 01:18 PM) What does the bolded mean? Until now... what? What changed today that I missed? Nothing changed today, Northside; it changed this year. Suddenly, Ozzie and Kenny's petty little fued has spilled over onto the lineup card, the playing field, and the team's record. For this, both should go; but probably only one will. And that will solve the problem until Kenny has a problem with someone else. I answered your question, Northside, but noticed you haven't answered mine: Can you point to a stretch of two games - hell, gimme 1 game - where Dunn hasn't been "dung" this year? Didn't think so . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 04:05 PM) Obsession with 'small ball' had NOTHING to do with letting go of Frank Thomas or even Jim Thome. Thome was not replaced with a 'small ball player'...he was replaced with a power hitter, who just happen to suck in Chicago. Mark Kotsay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (bozzie @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 03:05 PM) Nothing changed today, Northside; it changed this year. Suddenly, Ozzie and Kenny's petty little fued has spilled over onto the lineup card, the playing field, and the team's record. For this, both should go; but probably only one will. And that will solve the problem until Kenny has a problem with someone else. I answered your question, Northside, but noticed you haven't answered mine: Can you point to a stretch of two games - hell, gimme 1 game - where Dunn hasn't been "dung" this year? Didn't think so . . . Well, he did have a 1.556 OPS on April 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (bozzie @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 03:05 PM) I answered your question, Northside, but noticed you haven't answered mine: Can you point to a stretch of two games - hell, gimme 1 game - where Dunn hasn't been "dung" this year? Didn't think so . . . May 7-11 5 games, 10-21, 5 2Bs, 1 HR, 7 R, 5 RBI That's about when it all went downhill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I understand what you're saying about sabotaging the season and many times it has sure looked that way. But if that could be proven it'd be like a ban for life from baseball. I can't in good conscience ever imagine that to be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoIL Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (bozzie @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 02:01 PM) It only took 6 months ... ... finally, the Adam Dunn ordeal is over. Or is it? From the start, Adam Dunn was nothing but dung. And yet he held a lineup spot, most often in the heart of the order, through it all. Ozzie Guillen made his bones on being a tough, no-nonsense manager who played producers and sat underachievers. But with Dunn, it was kid gloves all the way. A .163 hitter getting pencilled into the lineup in late-August is beyond incredulous, it's pure farce. Which is what Ozzie has sought to make it from the beginning. Guillen has always been "praised" as a National League Manager operating in the American League, as if somehow using a square peg to fill a round hole is an asset. Ozzie's obsession with National League-like "smallball" prompted first the ouster of Hall of Famer Frank Thomas, then the release of Thomas's replacement, Jim Thome. In 2010, Kenny Williams decided to let Ozzie fall flat on his face. He jettisonned Thome and replaced him with Ozzie's dream-DH: Mark Kotsay. Kotsay was an utter disaster as a run producer, and Kenny had proved his point. Because in 2010, proving Ozzie wrong was more important to Kenny Williams than winning ballgames. For 2011, Kenny pulled out all the stops to bring in Adam Dunn. And what did Ozzie do? Did he shun him the way he had Thomas? Did he damn him with faint praise the way he had Thome? Nope. He played Dunn, and fellow Williams whiff Alex Rios, far longer than either of them deserved. Dunn has the lowest average of any hitter with enough at-bats to qualify for the batting title, by a long shot, and is having a season of mythic proportions. Rios is still in the lineup, hitting cleanup last night. Because in 2011, proving Kenny wrong has been more important to Ozzie Guillen than winning ballgames. This morning, Ozzie hit the newspapers to complain again that, despite having a contract extention for 2012 picked up at the beginning of this season, he feels unwanted yet again by the White Sox. Is it any wonder? He sacraficed the season to his petty fued with Williams who, whether Ozzie likes it or not, is his boss. Both of these guys have proven their egos are such that they are unable to work together and would prefer jeopardize not only pennant chances, but a multimillion dollar business. The fact that White Sox fans had to suffer through 400 at-bats of .163 hitting stands as testament to the farce this organization has become with Guillen and Williams at the top. Nice bit of speculation, conspiracy and fiction. Dunn does not have enough at bats to qualify for a batting title. Thomas was not run out of town by Ozzie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozzie Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 02:05 PM) Obsession with 'small ball' had NOTHING to do with letting go of Frank Thomas or even Jim Thome. Thome was not replaced with a 'small ball player'...he was replaced with a power hitter, who just happen to suck in Chicago. Mark Kotsay was a power hitter? . . . "L," as they say on the internet, wolfie, "OL" . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozzie Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 02:17 PM) May 7-11 5 games, 10-21, 5 2Bs, 1 HR, 7 R, 5 RBI That's about when it all went downhill Indeed have I proven my point when 1 HR in 5 games qualifies as a "streak" for Adam Dunn . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozzie Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 02:05 PM) Taking the extra base, running hard, stolen bases, sacrifices...isn't SMALL ball, it's just good baseball. And when have the Sox done that, wolfie? Indeed the Sox have been horrendous at the fundamentals for years now, and Ozzie's solution - rather than actually taking the time with his coaching staff to teach the fundamentals - was to kiss the a55es of the Minnesota Twins so sloppily that his own team developed a complex about them. As soon as Ozzie wants to preside over "good baseball," we're all ready . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I really believe the surgery Dunn had at the beginning of the season started his downfall. Playing guys day in and day out that didn't produce probably cost us the division this year, for that Ozzie has to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I like the points he's made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 In the 2011 Torture Sox world of Ozzie vs Kenny, the Knight Sox never really stood a chance. De Aza sits today for Rios (with a freaking OFF DAY tomorrow) AJ will supplant Flowers starting Friday in DET. All that's left to do is play Dunn and sit Viciedo in DET and the season will appropriately waterboard us all out of contention for good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I'm fine with Flowers getting more time off, as he hasn't looked all that good the last few games. Against someone like Verlander and Scherzer, I would rather have AJP getting the at bats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I agree with these sentiments, as I have agreed with them in multiple other threads. Im not closing this, but we dont need to open up a new thread every time Ozzie pisses us off. The server just doesnt have the space Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Flowers is still learning. No doubt he has improved, but AJP is no slouch. Pierzynski deserves to start. De Aza and Rios is a hard one. Might be more of the match up then anything. Next year might be different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 01:03 PM) Flowers is still learning. No doubt he has improved, but AJP is no slouch. Pierzynski deserves to start. De Aza and Rios is a hard one. Might be more of the match up then anything. Next year might be different. There is no matchup right now where Alexis Rios should be playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Hopefully today is just Rios's send off for the 2011 season. Unless he goes 4-4 with 6 homeruns, he should never see the field again after today, and if he does I will not be watching the rest of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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