kitekrazy Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Inge volunteered to work on his hitting in the minors. It would have been nice if one of those 2 offered to do the same thing. BTW does the players union allow for this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Sep 14, 2011 -> 02:56 PM) Inge volunteered to work on his hitting in the minors. It would have been nice if one of those 2 offered to do the same thing. BTW does the players union allow for this? Yes, I believe a player under contract can willingly accept assignment to the minor leagues without having to have his whole contract paid out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 14, 2011 -> 01:54 PM) Rios plays every day. Didn't the Giants just win the World Series with Zito and Rowand taking in about $29 million and giving them virtually nothing? You're right. And that's an indictment of Kenny Williams then, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 14, 2011 -> 03:05 PM) You're right. And that's an indictment of Kenny Williams then, correct? Here's the thing...the 2 guys who really carried the weight...Lincecum and Cain...both top 10 picks in the draft. The White Sox have had 1 of those, well, pretty much in the time since I became a fan they've had 1 of those. So yeah...the fact that the Giants stank for a couple years really helped. KW hasn't done that yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 14, 2011 -> 01:51 PM) And it still won't make a difference. It only wouldn't make a difference if you have an irrational love for a terrible manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 14, 2011 -> 02:08 PM) Here's the thing...the 2 guys who really carried the weight...Lincecum and Cain...both top 10 picks in the draft. The White Sox have had 1 of those, well, pretty much in the time since I became a fan they've had 1 of those. So yeah...the fact that the Giants stank for a couple years really helped. KW hasn't done that yet. So the difference is 1 top 10 pick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 14, 2011 -> 03:15 PM) So the difference is 1 top 10 pick? And perhaps a couple extra years of development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 14, 2011 -> 01:51 PM) And it still won't make a difference. this could be absolutely true and still doesn't absolve Guillen one bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 14, 2011 -> 02:20 PM) And perhaps a couple extra years of development. So Williams is the problem here or no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 "a" not "the" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 14, 2011 -> 02:22 PM) this could be absolutely true and still doesn't absolve Guillen one bit. But it doesn't mean he was wrong for playing those guys either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 14, 2011 -> 03:25 PM) But it doesn't mean he was wrong for playing those guys either. No, their terrible performance, lack of hustle, and better available options is what makes him wrong for playing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 14, 2011 -> 02:25 PM) But it doesn't mean he was wrong for playing those guys either. After 4 months of historically awful seasons by those two I would say yes, he was wrong for continuing to play them every day and in crucial spots in the lineup. Edited September 14, 2011 by BigSqwert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 14, 2011 -> 02:23 PM) So Williams is the problem here or no? Williams signed a guy who had put up at least 38 homers and 92 RBI every year since 2003. This is a guy who put up .260/38/103/.356/.536/.892 last year. Problem #1 is Adam Dunn, problem #2 is Ozzie Guillen. I cannot fault Kenny Williams for putting up the money that the market was dictating other teams were willing to spend for a guy who had been incredibly consistent for pretty much a decade. If you really want to hold that over Williams, you have to be willing to call him a f***ing idiot for resigning Paul Konerko to two big contracts because Dunn was actually way more consistent in his production when those deals were signed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 14, 2011 -> 02:27 PM) No, their terrible performance, lack of hustle, and better available options is what makes him wrong for playing them. GM should get rid of players like that, better yet not even acquire them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 14, 2011 -> 02:35 PM) GM should get rid of players like that, better yet not even acquire them. Why even have a manager? Just make sure the GM always puts together a 100% slump-proof team. Have the equipment manager just pencil in the healthiest 9 guys who make the most money as your starting lineup. You could save the organization a lot of money that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 14, 2011 -> 02:30 PM) Williams signed a guy who had put up at least 38 homers and 92 RBI every year since 2003. This is a guy who put up .260/38/103/.356/.536/.892 last year. Problem #1 is Adam Dunn, problem #2 is Ozzie Guillen. I cannot fault Kenny Williams for putting up the money that the market was dictating other teams were willing to spend for a guy who had been incredibly consistent for pretty much a decade. If you really want to hold that over Williams, you have to be willing to call him a f***ing idiot for resigning Paul Konerko to two big contracts because Dunn was actually way more consistent in his production when those deals were signed. How can you fault Guillen for playing a guy with those averages then? The problem isn't just Guillen, it's Williams too, more so. I will be very disappointed if Williams is retained after this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 14, 2011 -> 02:41 PM) How can you fault Guillen for playing a guy with those averages then? The problem isn't just Guillen, it's Williams too, more so. I will be very disappointed if Williams is retained after this year. Once they are signed, and hitting 100 points below their career average, plus no power, how could it not be Guillens fault if he keeps running them out there after 4-5-6 months of the same thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 14, 2011 -> 03:41 PM) How can you fault Guillen for playing a guy with those averages then? Because he's not putting up those numbers now? Hank Aaron averaged a .305 average and a .928 OPS. How could you fault Ozzie for playing him 150 games this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 14, 2011 -> 02:45 PM) Once they are signed, and hitting 100 points below their career average, plus no power, how could it not be Guillens fault if he keeps running them out there after 4-5-6 months of the same thing? Either through trolling or ignorance, there are a couple people on this board that cannot grasp that concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 14, 2011 -> 02:45 PM) Once they are signed, and hitting 100 points below their career average, plus no power, how could it not be Guillens fault if he keeps running them out there after 4-5-6 months of the same thing? So what do you do with Dunn the next 3 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 14, 2011 -> 02:45 PM) Because he's not putting up those numbers now? Hank Aaron averaged a .305 average and a .928 OPS. How could you fault Ozzie for playing him 150 games this year? If Williams signed him for $56M, you couldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 14, 2011 -> 02:54 PM) So what do you do with Dunn the next 3 years? You work his ass off during the winter, and then bring him to spring training and evaluate him. If he continues to suck, you bench him as much as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 14, 2011 -> 02:35 PM) GM should get rid of players like that, better yet not even acquire them. managers should bench those players, not play them in the 4-hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 14, 2011 -> 03:54 PM) So what do you do with Dunn the next 3 years? You judge a lot by Spring Training, give him as much time as humanly possible and push him hard. You start him off in April next year for a couple weeks to see what he's got. You might give him a longer leash if he has a really good spring training. If he continues to struggle starting next season, you transition him to the bench and you use him to give Konerko days off/days at DH against RHP, while hiding him from LHP as much as possible. You hope then he either snaps out of it or retires. Once he's signed, the money is a sunk cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.