... it's about time

[TheBigHurt]

The same cringe I get when someone makes the idiotic argument that players don't matter.

 

Who the f*** is making that argument???

 

You people are so damn desperate to defend Ozzie you'll make s*** up to do it?

 

 

I rest my damn case. If you had read ANY of my posts (or anyone ELSE'S for that matter) you would know I simply said that you guys are using this "only players matter" crap to disguise the fact that managers have a big impact as well; constantly screwing up the easiest of decisions definitely has a major impact on a team.

[Marty34]

My guess is that the contract will be less than what Guillen wants. What's interesting of course is that Williams is out of the loop here, which is a good thing.

[LittleHurt05]

Marc Silverman reported on his radio show this morning that chairman Reinsdorf will make a contract offer to Guillen when the team returns home.

 

Walker better be gone then

[TheBigHurt]

I do know no one said that just like no one said the manager makes no impact on the game and doesn't matter. Of course the manager has an impact, it is the level of impact that the argument comes from. I place Oz 4th or 5th on the responsibity list, others place him higher or lower. Players can overcome bad decisions better than managers can overcome bad players.

 

Bulls***, Tex; the biggest arguments to defend Ozzie (as well as Walker) have been cop-outs, one of which has been that manager's decisions don't matter enough to fire Ozzie (which in turn means any manager EVER so why didn't we just keep LaRussa in the first place? LOL) and hire someone else because "who would be better?" and because it's all on the players. The players play and the managers manage; BOTH are vital to winning games. As a manager you are supposed to make the simple decisions correctly (Ozzie consistently fails at this) and put your team in the best position to win. Rarely DOES he.

[fathom]

Who the hell would want to be a GM for this moronic owner who lets the manager run the show?

 

This would be a worst case scenario, as Ozzie's ego would grow bigger and Walker would likely be brought back.

[StrangeSox]

If that report is true, just end the damn farce and name Guillen to the position of White Sox Emperor for Life.

[Milkman delivers]

LMAO

 

I hope that's false news. If not, they lost a paying customer until his contract expires.

 

f*** when his contract expires. The audacity of signing him to an extension will turn me off on this team possibly for good. Allowing him to ride out the last year on his contract? I can maybe see that. I wouldn't watch a single game that season, but I'd come back in 2013. But to give him an extension? That's a complete slap in the face of the entire fan base.

[Balta1701]

I take it that a corollary to this report is that the Chairman also has no ability to use modern communications equipment?

[chw42]

Maddon also has the benefit of the probably the best young pitching staff in the AL. You could argue their record should be better considering they have 111 starts from pitchers with an ERA under 3.70. He does a nice job. But his job is made much easier when the biggest decision he has to make what order a rotation of Price, Shields, Hellickson, and Nieman should pitch. I like Maddon, but put him on the Royals, and they are still in 20+ games under .500 and fighting to stay out of last place.

 

We're not talking about the Royals here. Give any manager that pitching staff and they'll have a hard time getting to 10 below .500. But if Maddon managed this White Sox roster, we'd be a lot better than 70-69.

[Rowand44]

Just watch boys and girls, Ozzie and Kenny are both going to be back. We're about to go through a worst nightmare type of scenario.

[ILMOU]

Just watch boys and girls, Ozzie and Kenny are both going to be back. We're about to go through a worst nightmare type of scenario.

 

As fathom indicated, the WORST case is Ozzie surviving KW. That will ensure a puppet for a GM and a team full of Juan Pierres.

 

I hear Aaron Miles is available, Punto too!

Edited September 6, 2011 by Stan Bahnsen

[Texsox]

Bulls***, Tex; the biggest arguments to defend Ozzie (as well as Walker) have been cop-outs, one of which has been that manager's decisions don't matter enough to fire Ozzie (which in turn means any manager EVER so why didn't we just keep LaRussa in the first place? LOL) and hire someone else because "who would be better?" and because it's all on the players. The players play and the managers manage; BOTH are vital to winning games. As a manager you are supposed to make the simple decisions correctly (Ozzie consistently fails at this) and put your team in the best position to win. Rarely DOES he.

 

You really don't seem to take the time to read and understand. I will try one last time. IMHO Ozzie alone did not cause this team to miss the playoffs. For that matter, Dunn alone did not prevent this team from making the playoffs.

 

I would rather have a good manger managing players having a good season, but if one group, coaches or players are going to have a bad year, I'd rather it be the coaches. Some people want a computer in the dugout, churning out decisions. While that would probably have been much better than Ozzie this season, it still wouuldn't make up for poor play from a large chunk of the team.

 

I believe the KW - Ozzie tandem needs to end. I believe Oz should take more of the responsibility for the past couple of seasons than KW. Which logically flows he should be gone.

 

You've said that you believe this is a playoff team with a different manager, we disagree. yet you disagreed when I said some people think this magically becomes a playoff team without Oz. You are a moving target, setting up paper tigers with statements I did not make.

[Texsox]

As fathom indicated, the WORST case is Ozzie surviving KW. That will ensure a puppet for a GM and a team full of Juan Pierres.

 

I hear Aaron Miles is available, Punto too!

 

I would rate the possible scenarios from best to worst

 

Kenny promoted, new GM, Oz gone

Kenny stays, Oz gone

Both gone

Both stay

Oz stays, KW gone --> that would be a disaster

[ILMOU]

I would rate the possible scenarios from best to worst

 

Kenny promoted, new GM, Oz gone

Kenny stays, Oz gone

Both gone

Both stay

Oz stays, KW gone --> that would be a disaster

 

We agree.

[Balta1701]

You really don't seem to take the time to read and understand. I will try one last time. IMHO Ozzie alone did not cause this team to miss the playoffs. For that matter, Dunn alone did not prevent this team from making the playoffs.

 

I would rather have a good manger managing players having a good season, but if one group, coaches or players are going to have a bad year, I'd rather it be the coaches. Some people want a computer in the dugout, churning out decisions. While that would probably have been much better than Ozzie this season, it still wouuldn't make up for poor play from a large chunk of the team.

 

I believe the KW - Ozzie tandem needs to end. I believe Oz should take more of the responsibility for the past couple of seasons than KW. Which logically flows he should be gone.

 

You've said that you believe this is a playoff team with a different manager, we disagree. yet you disagreed when I said some people think this magically becomes a playoff team without Oz. You are a moving target, setting up paper tigers with statements I did not make.

Do you believe that a manager can have any impact on a player's performance?

[kitekrazy]

How many other teams in baseball had a scenario similar to the Sox?

[Dick Allen]

Great post. The Sox record is miraculously good considering he has Dunn n Rios.

But many on here amazingly blame him for Dunn n Rios. Sad.

No one has blamed Ozzie for Dunn and Rios. They may blame him for them being in the line up too long or too high in the line up for too long.

[Balta1701]

No one has blamed Ozzie for Dunn and Rios. They may blame him for them being in the line up too long or too high in the line up for too long.

I'll bite the bullet here.

 

Dudes came to Chicago and stank. Either they aren't listening to the coaches or they're not working hard or they're not even in shape. All of those reflect on the coaching staff.

[VictoryMC98]

No one has blamed Ozzie for Dunn and Rios. They may blame him for them being in the line up too long or too high in the line up for too long.

 

I have question in regards to this... How does a player get out of slump if he is not in said lineup?

 

I also in the minority in this thread, I don't think Ozzie is the #1, 2 or 3 problem with this club. He is more like #4

[BigSqwert]

I have question in regards to this... How does a player get out of slump if he is not in said lineup?

 

Most people would think that after 4 to 5 consecutive awful months that it's time to give up and go to plan B.

 

[Balta1701]

I have question in regards to this... How does a player get out of slump if he is not in said lineup?

 

I also in the minority in this thread, I don't think Ozzie is the #1, 2 or 3 problem with this club. He is more like #4

Brent Lillibridge got into and out of a slump while on the bench.

[Dick Allen]

I have question in regards to this... How does a player get out of slump if he is not in said lineup?

 

I also in the minority in this thread, I don't think Ozzie is the #1, 2 or 3 problem with this club. He is more like #4

So you just leave them in the 3 or 4 or 5 hole. Then why move Beckham out of the 2 hole? Why not go with the same line up every freaking day? Who cares what you see.

 

Are you suggesting Dunn and Rios weren't afforded enough time to get out of their slumps? My question back to you is when does actually winning become a bigger priority than making sure you don't hurt feelings?

Edited September 7, 2011 by Dick Allen

[VictoryMC98]

So you just leave them in the 3 or 4 or 5 hole. Then why move Beckham out of the 2 hole? Why not go with the same line up every freaking day? Who cares what you see.

 

Are you suggesting Dunn and Rios weren't afforded enough time to get out of their slumps? My question back to you is when does actually winning become a bigger priority than making sure you don't hurt feelings?

 

I will state this briefly about Gordon, he should be in AAA at the start of the season this year. IMO they rushed him up here. Which is why I was glad they never called up DV, until later on this year.

 

Rios IMO should have never been on this club, hated this move.. even last year. But, with that said to answer your question.. They were given enough time, but who replaces them.. Is Brett L an everyday player? At the time is Mark T, a better choice? I didn't see anyone on the 25-man roster that was a better choice.. and that's not Ozzie's fault. Is it?

Edited September 7, 2011 by VictoryMC98

[Dick Allen]

I will state this briefly about Gordon, he should be in AAA at the start of the season this year. IMO they rushed him up here. Which is why I was glad they never called up DV, until later on this year.

 

Rios IMO should have never been on this club, hated this move.. even last year. But, with that said to answer your question.. They were given enough time, but who replaces them.. Is Brett L an everyday player? At the time is Mark T, a better choice? I didn't see anyone on the 25-man roster that was a better choice.. and that's not Ozzie's fault. Is it?

The point the objectors to Ozzie are making is even if he had to play Rios and Dunn to "get them out of their slumps", he didn't need to be putting them in the spots usually reserved for run producers.

[VictoryMC98]

The point the objectors to Ozzie are making is even if he had to play Rios and Dunn to "get them out of their slumps", he didn't need to be putting them in the spots usually reserved for run producers.

 

Edit, that didn't come out right

 

What would be a better lineup in your view, with the players they had prior to their trade with the BJs

Edited September 7, 2011 by VictoryMC98