... it's about time

[VictoryMC98]

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/show/670-the-score-interviews/#

 

Listen to the Ken Rosenthal interview on M&H.

 

Thanks, don't get a chance to listen to any radio.

 

Here is my issue with Hahn, if he is Kenny's right hand man.. and Kenny is the problem... How is that changing things?

 

I also see how its perfectly set up so Jerry doesn't have to be the bad guy in this.. which sorry, you own a team, you have to be a bad guy every once in a while.

[kitekrazy]

I think it all starts at the top and trickles down. This IMO is Kenny's version of a team.. this is what he wanted. Kenny is on the hook, just as last year Ozzie was on the hook for his version of a team. If this year doesn't win 88 games, or better..

 

I am willing to Rid the team of Kenny, and follow what the Cubs just did.. or about to do, look for a GM who understands player development, the rushing up of Gordon, is just bad. We all know the Sox Payroll is depended on Wins, and staying healthy.. Just image how bad this team would be if Paulie was out for 15 dl? And since we can't predict staying healthy esp, when the core is getting older and can't play like they did 6 years ago..

 

I think all fans micro-manage every single action of Ozzie/their manager of another, but overall Ozzie is given the hand he is dealt. I still see him as a top 10 manager in baseball right now. It seems from your post we beg to differ, which is great.. I like to get different view points. Which is why I said early on.. I know I am in the minority.

 

One of the reasons for rushing up Beckham was more of Kenny's failed prospects/decisions. Another year of Jaun Uribe wouldn't have hurt the team.

 

[kitekrazy]

Thanks, don't get a chance to listen to any radio.

 

Here is my issue with Hahn, if he is Kenny's right hand man.. and Kenny is the problem... How is that changing things?

 

I also see how its perfectly set up so Jerry doesn't have to be the bad guy in this.. which sorry, you own a team, you have to be a bad guy every once in a while.

 

Listen to Stone's interview on that web page. He talks about Hahn.

 

 

 

[TheBigHurt]

You really don't seem to take the time to read and understand

 

Of all freaking people to hear such a thing from. That is the very definition of "irony" after making the first post I quoted from you, Tex. You clearly don't take time to read and understand, either... just jump to whatever conclusion you want so you can make a biased argument. I'm sick of guys like yourself arguing as if those of us opposing Ozzie are trying to say the players aren't controlling their own destinies but you use that as a cop-out because you refuse to acknowledge that being as poor an in-game manager as Ozzie loses you a lot of games... and there is no debating that point.

[Texsox]

Of all freaking people to hear such a thing from. That is the very definition of "irony" after making the first post I quoted from you, Tex. You clearly don't take time to read and understand, either... just jump to whatever conclusion you want so you can make a biased argument. I'm sick of guys like yourself arguing as if those of us opposing Ozzie are trying to say the players aren't controlling their own destinies but you use that as a cop-out because you refuse to acknowledge that being as poor an in-game manager as Ozzie loses you a lot of games... and there is no debating that point.

 

If you believe there is no debating the point, why do you keep posting?

 

I've said that players win and lose way more games than the manager.

Or let me try this way, the team has almost 70 loses at this point, how many were the player's and how many were Oz? I do not believe this 25 player roster could make the playoffs, no matter who the manager is. If we go into 2012 with the same 25 guys and a new manager, we're still out of the playoffs. But a lot of people believe this is a playoff team with a different manager. If Oz lost you 10 games this year, than that's what you need, and no need to make any roster shift, just change the manager. I'm just not that enamored with these guys.

 

If Oz's decisions cost the team a lot of loses, how many wins did it cost? Or does the manager get tagged with all the bad loses and none of the wins?

 

 

And what argument isn't biased? An argument is two opposing opinions.

[Balta1701]

And I believe this 25 man roster could easily have made the playoffs.

[Texsox]

And I believe this 25 man roster could easily have made the playoffs.

 

 

I also believe they could easily have made the playoffs but we have different "ifs". Mine is "if" a couple key players played at 80% of potential, (which is why I give KW a passing grade). Based on how they actually performed, I don't believe they could have. You believe a different manager could have taken these same performances and somehow gotten them into the playoffs.

 

I'm not convinced that backups to Dunn and Rios could have made up 8 games. We were clammoring for an upgrade at DH, not many people felt we had anyone in house that could fill the role. Backups would have done better, but Oz gambled, and lost, on Dunn eventually coming around. Obviously you believe the backups would have been enough to win the division. I will agree they would have given us a better chance, but I still do not believe it would have been enough.

 

Are you really that happy with this roster?

[jenksycat]

One of the reasons for rushing up Beckham was more of Kenny's failed prospects/decisions. Another year of Jaun Uribe wouldn't have hurt the team.

 

If he was rushed up, shouldn't he have sucked his rookie year?

[Balta1701]

I also believe they could easily have made the playoffs but we have different "ifs". Mine is "if" a couple key players played at 80% of potential, (which is why I give KW a passing grade). Based on how they actually performed, I don't believe they could have. You believe a different manager could have taken these same performances and somehow gotten them into the playoffs.

 

I'm not convinced that backups to Dunn and Rios could have made up 8 games. We were clammoring for an upgrade at DH, not many people felt we had anyone in house that could fill the role. Backups would have done better, but Oz gambled, and lost, on Dunn eventually coming around. Obviously you believe the backups would have been enough to win the division. I will agree they would have given us a better chance, but I still do not believe it would have been enough.

 

Are you really that happy with this roster?

yes. I thought coming into this season that this was a solid and deep roster and I'll stand by that 100%. Hell, with the emergence of Humber it's actually been a better and deeper roster than I thought it was.

[Texsox]

yes. I thought coming into this season that this was a solid and deep roster and I'll stand by that 100%. Hell, with the emergence of Humber it's actually been a better and deeper roster than I thought it was.

 

 

I agree 100%. I loved the roster. Now, after how they played this season, are you still in love with it? I'm not. I'm not convinced these same 25 can make the playoffs next season.

[jenksycat]

I agree 100%. I loved the roster. Now, after how they played this season, are you still in love with it? I'm not. I'm not convinced these same 25 can make the playoffs next season.

 

Believing that means you also believe the Beckham and Dunn will never be good again and Morel will never get better. If you do fine, I'm not there yet.

[VictoryMC98]

And I believe this 25 man roster could easily have made the playoffs.

 

I didn't think so..I didn't like the Pen at all from March on.. I didn't like the fact we let Putz go, an experienced closer. I thought the Pen would be our donwfall.. I didn't think the offense would be a problem.

[Balta1701]

I didn't think so..I didn't like the Pen at all from March on.. I didn't like the fact we let Putz go, an experienced closer. I thought the Pen would be our donwfall.. I didn't think the offense would be a problem.

The pen has been, for the most part, a strength.

[caulfield12]

I also believe they could easily have made the playoffs but we have different "ifs". Mine is "if" a couple key players played at 80% of potential, (which is why I give KW a passing grade). Based on how they actually performed, I don't believe they could have. You believe a different manager could have taken these same performances and somehow gotten them into the playoffs.

 

I'm not convinced that backups to Dunn and Rios could have made up 8 games. We were clammoring for an upgrade at DH, not many people felt we had anyone in house that could fill the role. Backups would have done better, but Oz gambled, and lost, on Dunn eventually coming around. Obviously you believe the backups would have been enough to win the division. I will agree they would have given us a better chance, but I still do not believe it would have been enough.

 

Are you really that happy with this roster?

 

 

It was clear that Viciedo would have made a huge difference if called up at the start or middle of June...before he had his wrist problem.

 

Of course, that would have meant giving up on Dunn after 2 1/2 months.

 

But with how DeAza and Viciedo have hit, for the most part (which is clearly above the value of a replacement player)...arguments could certainly be made either way.

 

Obviously, DET really has all the momentum going now.

 

I read somewhere where this is only the 4th time in the last 75 years they've (the Tigers) outscored their opponents by such a margin over the course of 5 and 6 games (their recent stretch against us and CLE, including two huge come from behind victories, punctuated by today's GS by Martinez).

Edited September 7, 2011 by caulfield12

[Texsox]

Believing that means you also believe the Beckham and Dunn will never be good again and Morel will never get better. If you do fine, I'm not there yet.

 

No, I believe they can rebound, although I am very negative on Dunn. I'm also seeing a few guys get older. Actually, the only easy to believe way to the playoffs is for those guys to rebound, Dunn and Rios ain't going anywhere. So we hope.

[Texsox]

It was clear that Viciedo would have made a huge difference if called up at the start or middle of June...before he had his wrist problem.

 

Of course, that would have meant giving up on Dunn after 2 1/2 months.

 

But with how DeAza and Viciedo have hit, for the most part (which is clearly above the value of a replacement player)...arguments could certainly be made either way.

 

Obviously, DET really has all the momentum going now.

 

I read somewhere where this is only the 4th time in the last 75 years they've (the Tigers) outscored their opponents by such a margin over the course of 5 and 6 games (their recent stretch against us and CLE, including two huge come from behind victories, punctuated by today's GS by Martinez).

 

About the only change I would make is instead of it was clear to it is likely. And I'm more cautious, I would not say huge difference. Maybe I'm just too negative right now.

[caulfield12]

About the only change I would make is instead of it was clear to it is likely. And I'm more cautious, I would not say huge difference. Maybe I'm just too negative right now.

 

 

Alex Rios hitting 4th, 5th or 6th is still driving me crazy...including tonight.

 

 

[VictoryMC98]

It was clear that Viciedo would have made a huge difference if called up at the start or middle of June...before he had his wrist problem.

 

Of course, that would have meant giving up on Dunn after 2 1/2 months.

 

But with how DeAza and Viciedo have hit, for the most part (which is clearly above the value of a replacement player)...arguments could certainly be made either way.

 

Obviously, DET really has all the momentum going now.

 

I read somewhere where this is only the 4th time in the last 75 years they've (the Tigers) outscored their opponents by such a margin over the course of 5 and 6 games (their recent stretch against us and CLE, including two huge come from behind victories, punctuated by today's GS by Martinez).

 

I actually like they left Viciedo in AAA, and not rushed him up here, like what they did with "bacon". I don't know where Viciedo would have played also.. which you pointed out, do we give up on Dunn, an experienced VET in June.. I don't know what Fan would have been sure lets do that.

[greg775]

I've been talking to a lot of baseball fans outside of Chicago and ask them what their perception is of Ozzie Guillen.

 

They all say that he is a good manager.

 

I ask them all if they can understand why a message board I frequent wants him fired and believes he will be fired.

 

They say, 'No.'

 

If we finish .500, folks, Ozzie being fired will be perceived as unfair nationally.

[chw42]

I've been talking to a lot of baseball fans outside of Chicago and ask them what their perception is of Ozzie Guillen.

 

They all say that he is a good manager.

 

I ask them all if they can understand why a message board I frequent wants him fired and believes he will be fired.

 

They say, 'No.'

 

If we finish .500, folks, Ozzie being fired will be perceived as unfair nationally.

 

$127 million

All-In slogan

.500 record in one of the worst divisions in baseball

 

Unfair?

 

 

Edited September 8, 2011 by chw42

[caulfield12]

There have been quite a few articles this year at yahoo sports, cnnsi, the sporting news, etc., all opining that this might be Guillen's last season.

 

I don't think it would come as a COMPLETE surprise to anyone around baseball, especially those with knowledge about the situation with Oney Guillen, the back and forth sniping with KW and Ozzie, the numerous questionable line-up decisions in the 2nd half of the season.

 

As far as "fair" or "unfair," it doesn't really matter what ANYONE thinks besides JR.

 

To most Sox fans, it's certainly not "fair" that we have ZERO hope for a turnaround in 2012 with KW/Ozzie/Walker/Dunn/Rios/Peavy/Beckham/Morel all returning in their current/expected starting roles.

Edited September 8, 2011 by caulfield12

[Jordan4life_2007]

I've been talking to a lot of baseball fans outside of Chicago and ask them what their perception is of Ozzie Guillen.

 

They all say that he is a good manager.

 

I ask them all if they can understand why a message board I frequent wants him fired and believes he will be fired.

 

They say, 'No.'

 

If we finish .500, folks, Ozzie being fired will be perceived as unfair nationally.

 

lol. Oh man you lyin'. You did not go out and ask random people why Soxtalk doesn't like Ozzie.

[T R U]

lol, how can anyone think this team would have done any better with a different manager.. the black holes of Dunn, Rios, and Peavy doomed this team.. not Ozzie..

 

hes still gonna be gone anyway, but if those three guys are even slightly reliable wed be in first place right now..

[T R U]

lol. Oh man you lyin'. You did not go out and ask random people why Soxtalk doesn't like Ozzie.

 

He didn't say random people, I assume he meant he asked people he knows in KC or wherever he is at.. somewhere round there I thought

[Texsox]

Alex Rios hitting 4th, 5th or 6th is still driving me crazy...including tonight.

 

I meant changes to your post. Sorry.