... it's about time

[StrangeSox]

I rather see Lillibridge strike out than Dunn. With Dunn, you already know what's going to happen, with Lilly, you don't know.

 

Absolutely.

 

Thinking that pinch-hitting out one of your current hottest players who has a homerun off of the reliever in the game for the guy having a historically bad season is one of the dumbest moves you've ever seen isn't something said in hindsight or because of the result.

 

You can get to correct answers through poor reasoning. If Dunn would have hit a HR, it wouldn't vindicate the move any more than PH Buerhle in there and having him get a HR would suddenly be considered a smart move.

 

to back up this point, I'll quote this post from the catch-all:

 

 

From Jayson Stark's ESPN article:

 

"How many players in the history of the American League have had 100 more strikeouts than hits in a season? Uh, none, of course. And the only guy to do it in any league was Mark Reynolds (211-99) last year in Arizona. So this is a huge September for Dunn -- no matter how much he does (or doesn't) play."

 

Dunn has 157 K's and only 60 hits.

 

Edited September 1, 2011 by StrangeSox

[SI1020]

Earl Weaver, considered by many one of the best mangers of all time, relied on ptching, defense, and sat back and waited for the 3 run homer. I don't agree with everything OG does but many people (not saying you) seem to think, no matter what Ozzie does is wrong. If he would have let Lillibridge bat and strike out, I'm sure some would have been saying Dunn should have been up there. I guess what I'm saying is most people just assume the best is going to happen if a situation was handled the way they think it should. If Dunn would have cracked a 3 run HR there, would people be giving Ozzie credit for a great move? I doubt it.

 

The one thing OG has done pretty consistently is put a wining team out there. They may not win enough all the time, but he's not a guy like Eric Wedge who wins manager of the year one year and is fired within 2-3 years afterwards. In my mind, the 3 most consistent managers in the AL have been Scioscia, Gardenhire and Ozzie. Their teams, for the most part, are always in it. I don't count Francona and Girardi because, with that payroll, all they have to do is not mess things up.

You are so wrong about Earl Weaver. He was a master tactician who knew and would use every trick in the book. Including having Eddie Murray steal home in this game, taking advantage of a young inexperienced Sox pitcher Guy Hoffman. Ozzie Guillen isn't even close to an Earl Weaver.

 

Weaver schooled him

 

[Marty34]

Earl Weaver was all about the 3-run homer.

[Lemon_44]

He's consistently putting Rios in the 4th spot.

I can't stand Rios as much as anyone but I can see Ozzie's reasoning for not Viciedo 4th. Why put all the pressure on him and make him think he has to carry the team? I like him 5th. I'm with you and hate Rios 4th. If it were me, I would hit PK 4th and De Aza 3rd until CQ comes back.

[StrangeSox]

I can't stand Rios as much as anyone but I can see Ozzie's reasoning for not Viciedo 4th. Why put all the pressure on him and make him think he has to carry the team? I like him 5th. I'm with you and hate Rios 4th. If it were me, I would hit PK 4th and De Aza 3rd until CQ comes back.

 

I didn't advocate for anyone in particular to bat 4th there, but you've admitted that batting Rios 4th is a bad move. That move keeps you from fielding the best team possible, just like PHing Dunn for one of your hotter hitters means you're not fielding your best team.

[Big Hurtin]

I rather see Lillibridge strike out than Dunn. With Dunn, you already know what's going to happen, with Lilly, you don't know.

 

I'm so glad that Ozzie saved me the anxiety.

[elrockinMT]

I rather see Lillibridge strike out than Dunn. With Dunn, you already know what's going to happen, with Lilly, you don't know.

 

 

That brings up the question of why AJP was sent to AAA to rehab when he could have been with the Sox. If AJ was here I would have taken my chances with him pinch hitting over Dunn.

[LittleHurt05]

That brings up the question of why AJP was sent to AAA to rehab when he could have been with the Sox. If AJ was here I would have taken my chances with him pinch hitting over Dunn.

 

I think you wanna make sure he is ready to play, especially since he is a catcher and you can't just play around with that roster spot.

[SI1020]

Earl Weaver was all about the 3-run homer.

Yeah right. Dumbest in game strategist ever. Not nearly as good as Ozzie.

 

[Milkman delivers]

He berated Kenny Williams into dumping a Hall of Famer who averaged .270, 37 home runs and 98 RBI in three years with the White Sox. And thus did Jim Thome move on.

 

His preferred replacement was instrumental to Ozzie's mandate that the White Sox add speed to a lineup that Guillen claimed was held back by the logjam at the middle of the order caused by Paul Konerko and Thome. Handed to him on a silver platter by Williams despite his incomprehension, in 2010, White Sox Designated Hitter Mark Kotsay hit .239, with 8 home runs and 31 RBI.

 

Kotsay stole 1 base while with the Sox.

 

Ozzie's complete embarrassment, and Kenny's facilitation of it, did not sit well with mercurial one. In fact, Ozzie, always insecure and deservedly so after a middling Major League career and more bluster than success as a manager, was totally humiliated by the Kotsay mishap. Which of course was Williams' plan all along.

 

For 2011, Kenny brought in what he thought was a real power hitter, Adam "Big Donkey" Dung. Dung's success and utter lack of it have been chronicled here and elsewhere throughout Chicago ad nauseum, which is usually what Dung ends up producing in White Sox fans as he waddles toward the batter's box.

 

Rather than manage, Ozzie chose to trot Dung out, day after day, often in the most important spot in the batting order, until he could be sure Kenny's embarrassment over Dung was as acute as his over Kotsay. And there went another White Sox season.

 

Until yesterday.

 

That's when Dung, finally relegated to the bench where he belongs, was brought into a game situation in the ninth inning by Ozzie as a pinch hitter. The fact that Dung looks like he's shaking off 6 months worth of rust during at bats in which he has been playing everyday didn't deter Ozzie from putting him in the unenviable position of pinch hitting with the game on the line.

 

Of course, Dung struck out. What else can he do?

 

He was followed a couple batters later by Kenny's other big whiff of recent, Alex Rios. Rios struck out looking, which is more than what he does half the time when fly balls carry out his way.

 

And the game was started - and ended quickly - by complete Williams bust Jake Peavy, who despite his bluster and lectures to his Sox teammates to get tougher has been more fragile than cheap china from China in the midst of putting up Cy Dung caliber numbers such as a 4.90-something ERA while struggling to stay over .500.

 

What yesterday made clear is that Ozzie Guillen, who probably already realizes he is on the way out, will stay true to his stubborn ways and continue to try to find ways to embarrass Kenny Williams through his poor personnel decisions. What's also clear is that Ozzie Guillen is guilty of forfeiting games this season by continuing to do so.

 

And for that, even Oney oughta run him out of town . . .

 

Oh my God. I know I'm a dark cloud on this site, but at least I'm terse. You're like a f***ing monsoon of negativity.

[Milkman delivers]

Earl Weaver, considered by many one of the best mangers of all time, relied on ptching, defense, and sat back and waited for the 3 run homer. I don't agree with everything OG does but many people (not saying you) seem to think, no matter what Ozzie does is wrong. If he would have let Lillibridge bat and strike out, I'm sure some would have been saying Dunn should have been up there. I guess what I'm saying is most people just assume the best is going to happen if a situation was handled the way they think it should. If Dunn would have cracked a 3 run HR there, would people be giving Ozzie credit for a great move? I doubt it.

 

The one thing OG has done pretty consistently is put a wining team out there. They may not win enough all the time, but he's not a guy like Eric Wedge who wins manager of the year one year and is fired within 2-3 years afterwards. In my mind, the 3 most consistent managers in the AL have been Scioscia, Gardenhire and Ozzie. Their teams, for the most part, are always in it. I don't count Francona and Girardi because, with that payroll, all they have to do is not mess things up.

 

I love people who can't come up with a real argument, so they make up completely untrue statements.

[BigSqwert]

That brings up the question of why AJP was sent to AAA to rehab when he could have been with the Sox. If AJ was here I would have taken my chances with him pinch hitting over Dunn.

 

Why would you PH for Lillibridge in the first place? He leads the entire team in HRs in August and rarely plays. Plus, he homered off of Nathan last time he faced him. And to top it off, he hit a HR earlier in the game.

 

The fact that you don't get any of that and are still looking for a reason to PH for him makes it easier to understand why you back up Ozzie so often.

[kitekrazy]

He berated Kenny Williams into dumping a Hall of Famer who averaged .270, 37 home runs and 98 RBI in three years with the White Sox. And thus did Jim Thome move on.

 

You do realize Thome's last year on the Sox was the option year and was making over $14M. I think he was getting $2M from the Twins. It would almost be disrespectful if the Sox offered Thome that same money.

That was an awful lot of money wrapped up in a player that leaves you with very few options and was also having back problems. I still think it was a smart move financially and unfortunately his replacements didn't work out.

His success last year had a lot do with how Gardenhire handled him. I don't think how he did as a Twin would translate to the same performance with the Sox especially with Ozzie as manager.

 

[Dick Allen]

You do realize Thome's last year on the Sox was the option year and was making over $14M. I think he was getting $2M from the Twins. It would almost be disrespectful if the Sox offered Thome that same money.

That was an awful lot of money wrapped up in a player that leaves you with very few options and was also having back problems. I still think it was a smart move financially and unfortunately his replacements didn't work out.

His success last year had a lot do with how Gardenhire handled him. I don't think how he did as a Twin would translate to the same performance with the Sox especially with Ozzie as manager.

If Ozzie would have said yes, he would have signed for about what Kotsay was making.

[Marty34]

As long as we're going over roster moves by Guillen. Shouldn't he get credit for the well-below market value contract extension (3y/$27M) Freddy Garcia signed in 2004? That more than makes up for his Thome decision.

Edited September 2, 2011 by Marty34

[Lemon_44]

Why would you PH for Lillibridge in the first place? He leads the entire team in HRs in August and rarely plays. Plus, he homered off of Nathan last time he faced him. And to top it off, he hit a HR earlier in the game.

 

The fact that you don't get any of that and are still looking for a reason to PH for him makes it easier to understand why you back up Ozzie so often.

Lillibridge is a fringe player at best. You're down 3 in the bottom of the 9th, it's desperation time. I have no problem sending up a left handed hitting HR threat, even if it's Dunn who has sucked all year. Why not take a chance with a guy who has averaged about 40 HR/year. There's 99% chance you're losing that game anyway. Everyone acts like the Sox win if Lillibrdge bats. It was a desperate act in desperate situation. It is really very insignificant who batted in that situation, the Sox were likely going to lose.

[chw42]

As long as we're going over roster moves by Guillen. Shouldn't he get credit for the well-below market value contract extension (3y/$27M) Freddy Garcia signed in 2004? That more than makes up for his Thome decision.

So Ozzie saving the team maybe $10 million over a span of 3 years makes up for making the decision that lost us the division last year? Those two don't equate.

[Marty34]

So Ozzie saving the team maybe $10 million over a span of 3 years makes up for making the decision that lost us the division last year? Those two don't equate.

 

You're not thinking things through. Garcia doesn't agree to a below-market extention the trade never happens.

[Balta1701]

As long as we're going over roster moves by Guillen. Shouldn't he get credit for the well-below market value contract extension (3y/$27M) Freddy Garcia signed in 2004? That more than makes up for his Thome decision.

Was that really below market at the time?

[chw42]

You're not thinking things through. Garcia doesn't agree to a below-market extention the trade never happens.

 

That doesn't mean the Sox don't win the World Series in 05 though. $10 million gets you a pretty good pitcher in 2005.

[chw42]

Was that really below market at the time?

 

I'm not sure what dollar values one WAR translated to back then, but I'm thinking Freddy was worth about $12 million in 05. So it is under market value, but not by much. Plus, he was probably worth less than what he was paid in 06.

[Balta1701]

I'm not sure what dollar values one WAR translated to back then, but I'm thinking Freddy was worth about $12 million in 05. So it is under market value, but not by much. Plus, he was probably worth less than what he was paid in 06.

But he also singled early before hitting the open market. That always pushes salary down.

[Marty34]

Was that really below market at the time?

 

Pavano for one signed a 4y/$38M deal with the Yankees before the 2005 season.

 

 

[Balta1701]

Pavano for one signed a 4y/$38M deal with the Yankees before the 2005 season.

That was off an 18 win season though wasn't it?

 

What was wright's deal?

[Marty34]

That doesn't mean the Sox don't win the World Series in 05 though. $10 million gets you a pretty good pitcher in 2005.

 

I'll take my chances with Big Game Freddy as opposed to $10M. Not only that, but Freddy was later traded for Gavin Floyd.