... it's about time

[TheBigHurt]

I've been saying this for years. He's basically a troll and people just need to ignore him. I've had him on ignore for a long time, but I'm still inundated with his insane bulls*** because people are constantly responding to him.

 

Go argue with a brick wall and see if you can tell the difference. You won't.

 

LOL.

[bighurt574]

Ozzie's strength isn't in-game decision-making. It just isn't. For a while, I bought that he was at least a great motivator who would get the most out of his players. It was certainly easy to buy that line after 2005. But after the team and the players have generally underachieved ever since, especially in the last 3 years, what's left? What is he bringing to the table? I don't get it.

[Lemon_44]

I've been saying this for years. He's basically a troll and people just need to ignore him. I've had him on ignore for a long time, but I'm still inundated with his insane bulls*** because people are constantly responding to him.

 

Go argue with a brick wall and see if you can tell the difference. You won't.

Kind of the same with you. If I don't agree with your thoughts, I'm wrong or have no common sense. I think I'd rather argue with a brick wall, at least I wouldn't have to listen to insults and bullcrap if I have a differing opinion.

[Lemon_44]

Ozzie's strength isn't in-game decision-making. It just isn't. For a while, I bought that he was at least a great motivator who would get the most out of his players. It was certainly easy to buy that line after 2005. But after the team and the players have generally underachieved ever since, especially in the last 3 years, what's left? What is he bringing to the table? I don't get it.

Why not hold the players accountable for under-achieving. That's where the probelm is. In these days with so much money involved, I don't think a player is going to "play harder" for one manager versus another. Do you really think the Sox players are going to play noticeably different if a guy like Dave Martinez was managing?

Edited September 2, 2011 by Lemon_44

[Balta1701]

Why not hold the players accountable for under-achieving.

How would you suggest this happen?

 

Send them to the bench? Who might make that decision?

[StrangeSox]

How would you suggest this happen?

 

Send them to the bench? Who might make that decision?

[greg775]

Kind of the same with you. If I don't agree with your thoughts, I'm wrong or have no common sense. I think I'd rather argue with a brick wall, at least I wouldn't have to listen to insults and bullcrap if I have a differing opinion.

 

Great post. The bottom line is some people can't handle people who don't agree with them. That's fine with me.

Ptatc had a good take on Oz IMO. Yes Ozzie is going to win big the rest of his career. Unfortunately it appears it won't be with the Sox. Dave Martinez lovers will find plenty to criticize once we are 30 or so games into the season. LaRussa ... we all know there will be plenty to criticize there. My guess is when you match up Ozzie with whomever replaces him ... Ozzie will have the better resume and the better future.

[Marty34]

How would you suggest this happen?

 

Send them to the bench? Who might make that decision?

 

Still playing with a 23-man roster.

 

[Balta1701]

Still playing with a 23-man roster.

Adam Dunn and Alexis Rios make adequate backups right now for the guys who are performing. Especially in the AL, you don't win pennants based on the strength of the bench. Play the guys who are performing and treat Dunn and Rios like backups. The guys who are performing are performing well enough that having weak backups isn't a big deal.

 

And anyway...from now on that point is moot, since rosters just expanded.

[Marty34]

Adam Dunn and Alexis Rios make adequate backups right now for the guys who are performing. Especially in the AL, you don't win pennants based on the strength of the bench. Play the guys who are performing and treat Dunn and Rios like backups. The guys who are performing are performing well enough that having weak backups isn't a big deal.

 

And anyway...from now on that point is moot, since rosters just expanded.

 

That's settled. My next question is why are they paying $25M+ for backups?

 

[Balta1701]

That's settled. My next question is why are they paying $25M+ for backups?

Clearly, bad decisions that have backfired horribly.

[Chicago White Sox]

Great post. The bottom line is some people can't handle people who don't agree with them. That's fine with me.

Ptatc had a good take on Oz IMO. Yes Ozzie is going to win big the rest of his career. Unfortunately it appears it won't be with the Sox. Dave Martinez lovers will find plenty to criticize once we are 30 or so games into the season. LaRussa ... we all know there will be plenty to criticize there. My guess is when you match up Ozzie with whomever replaces him ... Ozzie will have the better resume and the better future.

Other than one year, Ozzie can't even win big here with more expensive and talented rosters than his divisional rivals most years. Since 2005, his teams have regularly underperformed. Why is he going to suddenly win big in Florida? I think being in the NL will help some, but he's going to make the same mistakes he's made here both off and on the field. The Marlins will have even less patience with him and once they let him go, that very well may be the end of his career as a MLB manager.

 

What is it about this guy that has you completely blinded?

[Marty34]

Per MLBTradeRumors Heyman says Chairman Reinsdorf wants to keep both Guillen and Williams "at this point."

[Texsox]

Why the hell did Ozzie start Danks tonight? f*** if KW never signed him we wouldn't have this problem

[greg775]

Per MLBTradeRumors Heyman says Chairman Reinsdorf wants to keep both Guillen and Williams "at this point."

 

After this sweep, he may change his mind.

This could be very embarrassing weekend.

[kitekrazy]

Other than one year, Ozzie can't even win big here with more expensive and talented rosters than his divisional rivals most years. Since 2005, his teams have regularly underperformed. Why is he going to suddenly win big in Florida? I think being in the NL will help some, but he's going to make the same mistakes he's made here both off and on the field. The Marlins will have even less patience with him and once they let him go, that very well may be the end of his career as a MLB manager.

 

What is it about this guy that has you completely blinded?

 

I doubt it. They seem to have a better farm system and their budget probably rules out having situations like Peavy, Dunn and Rios. They don't win a lot of baseball games so the chances are possible of over achieving than under achieving. Just maybe the Sox aren't really that talented. Two of the people not performing are from the NL. Plus his loyalty to Walker is another downfall.

 

[southsider2k5]

That's settled. My next question is why are they paying $25M+ for backups?

 

Great players with track records come to Chicago and underpreform. Why does that happen?

[southsider2k5]

Per MLBTradeRumors Heyman says Chairman Reinsdorf wants to keep both Guillen and Williams "at this point."

 

He has to say that. If he doesn't you lose the team

[Dick Allen]

Per MLBTradeRumors Heyman says Chairman Reinsdorf wants to keep both Guillen and Williams "at this point."

I would say that's SOP at this point. If they both come back, my season ticketholder partner and I are both ALL OUT. Enough is enough of this nonsense. I sense if one goes it will be Ozzie as JR has pointed out in the past the GM makes the decision on the manager and if the Sox want compensation from Florida, than they have to still at least fake interest in him coming back. I can't see how JR's partners can be too happy with KW spending all their money on dead weight. I think both have to go. If one "wins" their ego is only going to become even bigger.

[Dick Allen]

Great post. The bottom line is some people can't handle people who don't agree with them. That's fine with me.

Ptatc had a good take on Oz IMO. Yes Ozzie is going to win big the rest of his career. Unfortunately it appears it won't be with the Sox. Dave Martinez lovers will find plenty to criticize once we are 30 or so games into the season. LaRussa ... we all know there will be plenty to criticize there. My guess is when you match up Ozzie with whomever replaces him ... Ozzie will have the better resume and the better future.

Ozzie doesn't have as good of winning percentage as a White Sox manager as Gene Lamont. He averages less than 2 wins a year more per year than Jerry Manuel even though the highest the Sox payroll was ranked during Manuel's tenure was lower than the lowest it was ranked during Ozzie's. He averages less than 2 wins a year more than Jeff Torborg even though Torborg worked with the lowest payroll in baseball 2 of his 3 years as a manager. Your love for Ozzie is impressive, but he's not nearly as good or as irreplaceable as you think.

 

Except for actually winning playoff series, and maybe that was all Ozzie or all KW and not the players, the Sox during the regular season have pretty much been the same since about 1990. Even Terry Bevington guided them to 85 wins one season. The PR campain Oney and Cowley have going stating the Sox will slip back to losing 90-95 games while Ozzie collects WS rings if he leaves isn't based on reality. I'd love to see Ozzie deal with Loria. That won't end pretty either.

Edited September 3, 2011 by Dick Allen

[TheBigHurt]

Kind of the same with you. If I don't agree with your thoughts, I'm wrong or have no common sense. I think I'd rather argue with a brick wall, at least I wouldn't have to listen to insults and bullcrap if I have a differing opinion.

 

People like you apparently don't realize there are two concepts called "facts" and "logic." If you don't grasp either of those then frankly having a "differing opinion" doesn't make you credible. Here's a FACT that some people can't accept (mainly because this country beats this "everyone's opinion counts" crap into everyone's heads): Some people's opinions are simply WRONG; not valid and, consequently, not worth being taken seriously.

 

I also love how you (like most other people that are stubborn about Ozzie) switch it to "hold the players accountable." So why is it that when people who want to defend the manager present their case, it always seems to revolve around the idea that the players are the only ones accountable and the management should get off scot-free? Apparently to people like yourself, NOTHING management ever does can be wrong or a fireable offense; only the players' faults/shortcomings make any negative impact on a team. That's purely and simply FOOLISH.

 

 

I don't hold Ozzie accountable for players playing bad; I hold Ozzie accountable for consistently putting guys in the lineup who aren't hitting and putting them in HIGH SPOTS. Dunn hitting behind Konerko at this point in the season is beyond stupid. I hold Ozzie accountable for the consistently (BLATANTLY) ignorant things he does that potentially cost us wins.

 

I don't hold KW accountable for the players playing bad; I hold KW accountable for depleting our farm system to virtually nothing while emptying a truckload of cash to give to guys like Rios (Dunn is admittedly not his fault at all) who obviously had gone south and was staying there. Going into this season looking at our big league team and farm system I thought to myself, "God DAMN I hope no one major gets sidelined and put on the DL or we are SCREWED.

 

 

It's absolutely asinine that the people who STILL defend Ozzie can't see how OBVIOUSLY clueless the guy is at managing a ballclub and somehow think the players are the ONLY ones who are at fault for anything... EVER. Quite frankly if you think this way and take this position then you DESERVE to be insulted.

Edited September 3, 2011 by TheBigHurt

[Jordan4life_2007]

Great post. The bottom line is some people can't handle people who don't agree with them. That's fine with me.

Ptatc had a good take on Oz IMO. Yes Ozzie is going to win big the rest of his career. Unfortunately it appears it won't be with the Sox. Dave Martinez lovers will find plenty to criticize once we are 30 or so games into the season. LaRussa ... we all know there will be plenty to criticize there. My guess is when you match up Ozzie with whomever replaces him ... Ozzie will have the better resume and the better future.

 

 

I doubt it. They seem to have a better farm system and their budget probably rules out having situations like Peavy, Dunn and Rios. They don't win a lot of baseball games so the chances are possible of over achieving than under achieving. Just maybe the Sox aren't really that talented. Two of the people not performing are from the NL. Plus his loyalty to Walker is another downfall.

 

Two playoff appearances in eight years in a division that as far as recent history goes has been weak. Yet he's supposed to go to the NL east, a division that features two powerhouses in the Phillies and Braves, and "win big"?

[greg775]

I can't see how JR's partners can be too happy with KW spending all their money on dead weight. I think both have to go. If one "wins" their ego is only going to become even bigger.

 

Yep, yep.

This is exactly right and exactly what is going to happen.

Both are gone.

I think Oz will do fine with Florida's owner. Remember, in his new gig there will be very little coverage of baseball at least compared to Chicago.

Nobody's going to even give Ozzie a forum to go off. There won't be anything to go off about. If Fla is good the team is good; if it's bad, so what? The media won't care.

He'll be calm and it'll be very calm at the Cell if it's not LaRussa.

LaRussa I'm sure will have some run ins with the media here who try to call him on why the team isn't improved and why he, like oz, is still playing Dunn, etc.

Edited September 3, 2011 by greg775

[kitekrazy]

Two playoff appearances in eight years in a division that as far as recent history goes has been weak. Yet he's supposed to go to the NL east, a division that features two powerhouses in the Phillies and Braves, and "win big"?

 

Minus the 2 powerhouses (Detoit and Cleveland seem to have better futures), sounds like a lateral move but there's still a better upside than here because expectations would be lower.

 

[kitekrazy]

LaRussa I'm sure will have some run ins with the media here who try to call him on why the team isn't improved and why he, like oz, is still playing Dunn, etc.

 

Larussa would probably take some of his coaches down to the studio to intimidate the media. Larussa is a classless individual which I still don't see JR's fascination with him.