Marty34 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 04:07 PM) If you want to go the root of the problem with this game (or any recent game), it's the fact that Rios is hitting 4th and playing CF instead of De Aza. You are wrong. The problem with this game was Jake Peavy. Peavy had to pitch because he's owed a lot of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 QUOTE (sunofgold @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 04:08 PM) Vizquel did get a walk, thus cannot say that was a bad decision. Beckham isn't really lighting things up. The pinch running thing didn't really matter. But that wasn't the worst decision. Paulie is slow and coming off an injury ..thus he is super slow. Need somebody who could score from first on a double (2 outs so runner going with pitch). And you don't want to use one of your better pitchers like Buehrle or Danks to pinch run. However, with Rios at the plate and striking out...well I could have been the pinch runner is that situation. loL! Rios really should be batting 7th. Even TCM would be a better choice in the clean up position but I like the Tank there ..giving also Konerko some protection. I thought that they were going to pitch around PK in the ninth. That is what I would have done. He was the tying run at that point. The pinch running and the Vizquel pinch hit are directly related. There was really no reason to pinch hit for Beckham in that situation. In fact, Beckham's hitting .333 off Nathan in 6 PAs with a home run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Anyone listening to Rongey? Curious what stupid excuses he's giving for this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCangelosi Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 03:04 PM) I think Guillen should be fired. I think it's laughable to blame any manager for losing a game when your starter gives up 6 runs in the first. LOL Joe, would it have been any different if he gave up those 6 runs in the 5th inning? The truth of the matter is we had a legit chance in the 9th and blew it. Having Rios batting 4th once again is absolutely absurd, and we all know Ozzie is doing it to showcase Kenny's boy in a critical spot in the lineup so Ozzie can throw up his hands and say "these are the guys Kenny gave me!!". Great to see that Ozzie's ego trumps the team's well being because obviously that's all that matters to him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Peavy cost the team another win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 04:13 PM) Peavy, Ozzie, Dunn and Rios cost the team another win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 04:12 PM) You are wrong. The problem with this game was Jake Peavy. Peavy had to pitch because he's owed a lot of money. And who else are you going to pitch instead of Peavy...? There's no doubt Peavy had a bad start, but the fact that the offense was hindered by Ozzie Guillen before the game even started speaks louder volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 QUOTE (sunofgold @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 03:08 PM) Vizquel did get a walk, thus cannot say that was a bad decision. Beckham isn't really lighting things up. The pinch running thing didn't really matter. But that wasn't the worst decision. Paulie is slow and coming off an injury ..thus he is super slow. Need somebody who could score from first on a double (2 outs so runner going with pitch). And you don't want to use one of your better pitchers like Buehrle or Danks to pinch run. However, with Rios at the plate and striking out...well I could have been the pinch runner is that situation. loL! Rios really should be batting 7th. Even TCM would be a better choice in the clean up position but I like the Tank there ..giving also Konerko some protection. I thought that they were going to pitch around PK in the ninth. That is what I would have done. He was the tying run at that point. They kind of did pitch around him in that the ball he hit down the RF line was well outside - they hoped for a strikeout after he swung badly at the strike 2 pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 01:57 PM) Fathom, go ahead and add this one to your "10 games that got away" After a 6 run deficit in the 1st?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 10:11 PM) Guys, the clean-up hitter position is just one spot in the order...it won't make or break the team. I said that before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 04:21 PM) I said that before SMH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 04:13 PM) LOL Joe, would it have been any different if he gave up those 6 runs in the 5th inning? The truth of the matter is we had a legit chance in the 9th and blew it. Having Rios batting 4th once again is absolutely absurd, and we all know Ozzie is doing it to showcase Kenny's boy in a critical spot in the lineup so Ozzie can throw up his hands and say "these are the guys Kenny gave me!!". Great to see that Ozzie's ego trumps the team's well being because obviously that's all that matters to him... Wait a second, Rios' RBI single earlier in the game was part of the reason we still had a chance in the 9th. You should be more upset with Ramirez's 0fer in the 5-hole . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyuen Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 04:14 PM) And who else are you going to pitch instead of Peavy...? There's no doubt Peavy had a bad start, but the fact that the offense was hindered by Ozzie Guillen before the game even started speaks louder volumes. the offense scored 6 runs, you should win every one of those games peavy is just a flat out terrible pitcher, the team is hindered by having to pitch him and pay him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 10:13 PM) Peavy cost the team another win. I don't think Jake gets himself warmed up enough to start some games. He has ssaid as much on at least one occassion if I remember right. It's harder for him to get loose either from that shoulder problem or otherwise. It took him an inning and six runs today. And then we have arleief pitcher who gives up another homer. We see enough of that too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 03:22 PM) Wait a second, Rios' RBI single earlier in the game was part of the reason we still had a chance in the 9th. You should be more upset with Ramirez's 0fer in the 5-hole . . . Lexi's been jerked around by Ozzie more than anyone in the batting order. He hasn't been great, but he could benefit from a defined role at this point in his career, IMO. But really, with Quentin out, it's freakin' obvious who should be batting behind Konerko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 04:21 PM) I said that before It's also the most important spot in the batting order since the 4th hitter comes up with the most men on base. But you guys probably already knew that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 03:21 PM) I said that before Laughs out loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 QUOTE (docsox24 @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 04:23 PM) the offense scored 6 runs, you should win every one of those games peavy is just a flat out terrible pitcher, the team is hindered by having to pitch him and pay him It think it's time Kenny stops paying big money for NL talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 QUOTE (docsox24 @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 04:23 PM) rios/dunn is just a flat out terrible hitter, the team is hindered by having to play him and pay him Unlike a pitcher, however, you can minimize the impact of a bad bat by not batting them 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 04:25 PM) Lexi's been jerked around by Ozzie more than anyone in the batting order. He hasn't been great, but he could benefit from a defined role at this point in his career, IMO. But really, with Quentin out, it's freakin' obvious who should be batting behind Konerko. As for Ozzie's ideas about protecting Vic, the better solution may be to bat Viciedo 3rd and Konerko 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 04:33 PM) Unlike a pitcher, however, you can minimize the impact of a bad bat by not batting them 4th. Is there a single manager other than Ozzie that would put Rios in the #4 hole right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 QUOTE (docsox24 @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 04:23 PM) the offense scored 6 runs, you should win every one of those games peavy is just a flat out terrible pitcher, the team is hindered by having to pitch him and pay him Peavy's had 2-3 of these really bad starts. He hasn't been that bad in the other ones. He's been incredibly unlucky. If you haven't noticed, he's not giving up home runs or extremely hard hit line drives in most of his games, but ends up giving up 3-4 runs regardless. He has a 62% strand rate, which is about 10% below league average. The rule of thumb is that over a large amount of innings (say about 1000), luck gets isolated and the strand rate for all pitchers should be about 72-75%. On top of that, Peavy has an FIP almost 2 runs lower than his ERA. An xFIP 1.5 runs lower, a tERA a whole run lower, and a SIERA 1.5 runs lower. That's 4 separate advanced pitching metrics saying he's been unlucky and by quite a large amount as well. On top of that, from what I've seen, I don't think he really deserves to have an ERA over 5. He's probably been the unluckiest pitcher on the staff this year just by the amount of seeing eye singles he's given up. I know it sounds like I'm making excuses for him, but I truly believe that he isn't as bad as his ERA looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 05:34 PM) Is there a single manager other than Ozzie that would put Rios in the #4 hole right now? I dunno, LaRussa does bat his pitcher 8th sometimes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 04:23 PM) I don't think Jake gets himself warmed up enough to start some games. I agree with this. Of all the starters, he comes out the latest to warm up, like 10 minutes later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 05:34 PM) and a SIERA 1.5 runs lower. Please tell me we can come up with an updated version of this one with a 2nd set of words having the acronym "NVADA" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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