Flash Tizzle Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 02:29 PM) So the 2005 team won despite Oz and the 2011 team lost because of Oz. His time has come. Just be at peace with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 04:24 PM) Always remmeber there is next year. Ozzie sticks up for himself and there is nothing wrong with that and we have good players who are having bad years. Do some tweaking and some look at themselves in the mirror and make the needed changes this off season and 2012 can be a fun time for sure. Cause this year was no so much Team does need to tweak. The reason Ozzie or KW (at least one of the two) has to go is the team has had a really rotten full season and a half. I know some of you say it's been horrible longer than that. But the team has lost in so many ridiculous ways (just like yesterday) the past season and a half and had so many "bad baseball" moments that if there are no changes, what if it's just the same story again to start next season?? What if the Sox start dropping series after series in April and May again and keep losing all these walkoff games, etc? What if the team gets off to a bad start at home again? It'll be a runaway train of negativity again. Without Kenny (my preference) or Ozzie or both (and the departure of at least one of Rios/Dunn) at least there will be a new scenario. Maybe the bad karma of these ridiculous losses and losing streaks and inability to get hot as a team will end. Maybe the new hitting coach will lend some optimism. i would be all for a couple creative trades, tweaking not rebuilding under a new GM. If both Oz and KW have to go, that's fine, too as long as Bell, Cora and LaRussa are not the new managers. Edited September 4, 2011 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 02:29 PM) So the 2005 team won despite Oz and the 2011 team lost because of Oz. 2005 Ozzie 2011 Ozzie also... 2005 team situation 2011 team situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 01:31 PM) 2005 Ozzie 2011 Ozzie also... 2005 team situation 2011 team situation I'm uncertain what those symbols are supposed to be. Rhombuses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 12:39 PM) I'm uncertain what those symbols are supposed to be. Rhombuses? Not equal to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 01:46 PM) Not equal to ≠ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSoxFan Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Sep 3, 2011 -> 02:28 PM) I take exception that Walker thinks he is a hitting coach.............he sucks and should of been gone 3 years ago. People here have been, yes, screaming for Walker's head for at least that long now--the fact that he's remained is astounding, but not surprising in light of the talk that his relationship with JR saves him. But Jesus, when you've got the announcers for national sports networks openly criticizing our players' hitting mechanics during the TELECAST, how much more obvious could it be that a new hitting coach should be the LEAST of our changes. That, and the fact that Beckham was a better hitter when he got here than he is now. That's alarming. The fact that they didn't fire Walker months ago--as some sort of a jolt to this staggering franchise--set the table for where we are now. Nobody is held accountable for anything. Moving up the chain, Cubs GM Hendry was let go, despite having taken them to the playoffs twice, for his bad contracts: Fukodome, Soriano, Zambrano. Well here you have KW with his Dunn, Rios and Peavy contracts--the former two which have screwed us for at least a couple of years--so why does he not just resign? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Oh s***, I just saw a scroll on ESPN that Kenny fired the bat boy, but Reinsdorf stepped in and rehired him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 01:50 PM) But Jesus, when you've got the announcers for national sports networks openly criticizing our players' hitting mechanics during the TELECAST, how much more obvious could it be that a new hitting coach should be the LEAST of our changes. Hell, Hawk and Wimpy went after Rios, Morel, and Beckham on their hitting approaches in Seattle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 12:50 PM) People here have been, yes, screaming for Walker's head for at least that long now--the fact that he's remained is astounding, but not surprising in light of the talk that his relationship with JR saves him. But Jesus, when you've got the announcers for national sports networks openly criticizing our players' hitting mechanics during the TELECAST, how much more obvious could it be that a new hitting coach should be the LEAST of our changes. That, and the fact that Beckham was a better hitter when he got here than he is now. That's alarming. The fact that they didn't fire Walker months ago--as some sort of a jolt to this staggering franchise--set the table for where we are now. Nobody is held accountable for anything. Moving up the chain, Cubs GM Hendry was let go, despite having taken them to the playoffs twice, for his bad contracts: Fukodome, Soriano, Zambrano. Well here you have KW with his Dunn, Rios and Peavy contracts--the former two which have screwed us for at least a couple of years--so why does he not just resign? They need to bring Rudy Jaramillo in. I'm sure the Cubs would let him walk. All of the Cubs have perfect approaches at the plate. Walker is gone after this season. We'll see how this simple fix works in 2012. Has anyone who is blaming Walker played baseball beyond the freshman level in HS? Edited September 5, 2011 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSoxFan Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 No kidding. I missed those games--as I tend to do when they're West coast. Either way, I think the only thing that is going to jolt JR into action is the people who DO actually hold management accountable: the fans. Their attendance has been crap this year and I shudder to think what it's going to be like for the rest of the month. Another thing: this has been one of the more unlikeable teams that I can remember. Except for some of our vets and go-to guys like Lilly--who's to like? Dunn? Rios? Morel? Probably the most pleasant surprise has been Flowers, but he really didn't get to play until, what, weeks ago? It's going to be scary empty at the Cell for the rest of this month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 12:59 PM) No kidding. I missed those games--as I tend to do when they're West coast. Either way, I think the only thing that is going to jolt JR into action is the people who DO actually hold management accountable: the fans. Their attendance has been crap this year and I shudder to think what it's going to be like for the rest of the month. Another thing: this has been one of the more unlikeable teams that I can remember. Except for some of our vets and go-to guys like Lilly--who's to like? Dunn? Rios? Morel? Probably the most pleasant surprise has been Flowers, but he really didn't get to play until, what, weeks ago? It's going to be scary empty at the Cell for the rest of this month. Boring makes the team "unlikeable". If Dunn hit 40 homers and Beckham was hitting .285 and Rios .285, most people would love this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 12:58 PM) They need to bring Rudy Jaramillo in. I'm sure the Cubs would let him walk. All of the Cubs have perfect approaches at the plate. Walker is gone after this season. We'll see how this simple fix works in 2012. Has anyone who is blaming Walker played baseball beyond the freshman level in HS? The biggest reason I now want Walker gone is so I don't have to keep reading your posts about Rudy Jaramillo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 OH HELL YES GOODBYE GREG WALKER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 06:05 PM) The biggest reason I now want Walker gone is so I don't have to keep reading your posts about Rudy Jaramillo. Cubs have outscored the White Sox this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 02:17 PM) Cubs have outscored the White Sox this year. Of course, they have the DH in their lineup while we've had the pitcher's spot hitting 4th for a good portion of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 12:58 PM) Has anyone who is blaming Walker played baseball beyond the freshman level in HS? That's often a meaningless question used to try to get people to shut up. It might be possible that Steve Jobs has never assembled a Mac Book Pro and that doesn't disqualify him from making judgments based on data. There's been a pattern under Greg Walker. Maybe it's coincidence. The only way to find out is to replace him. If the pattern is still there then you blame the scouting. It's hard to ignore that the players from Charlotte have a far better approach at the plate than Morel and Beckham. Going from AAA into the majors is still a big leap but somehow these players have been successful for the short term. You can't blame Kenny for being upset that a once top prospect has become terrible at the plate. I still believe that keeping Viciedo down in Charlotte was more for his protection. They probably wanted to make sure his defense improves so that doesn't effect his hitting and to keep him from Walker. There could also be other reasons like the park itself. It's home run friendly. When they start putting them in the seats in batting practice I imagine that's all they want to do. The coaching staff may be too easy going. There's no evidence to the fans that when the whole team goes thru it's hitting woes the coaches call for hitting practice during the day at home games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 02:44 PM) His time has come. Just be at peace with it. I am, and agree he should be gone, but unlike a large number of people here, I don't believe that magically makes this a playoff team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 07:13 PM) I am, and agree he should be gone, but unlike a large number of people here, I don't believe that magically makes this a playoff team. Now you're just being insulting to the rest of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 07:08 PM) Now you're just being insulting to the rest of us. Well I have consistently stated that Ozzie is not why this team did not make the playoffs and you keep arguing with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 08:14 PM) Well I have consistently stated that Ozzie is not why this team did not make the playoffs and you keep arguing with me. But he has certainly been "a" reason why. Just like you can say this team would be in the race if Dunn had 30 HR, I can say this team would be in the race if their manager hadn't gotten in the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 07:17 PM) But he has certainly been "a" reason why. Just like you can say this team would be in the race if Dunn had 30 HR, I can say this team would be in the race if their manager hadn't gotten in the way. So fire Oz and this is a playoff team? Here is our difference. I believe Dunn's 30 HR and close to lifetime avg is way more important to the team than Oz making better decisions. If I had my choice I'll take Oz and an average Dunn year instead of the world's greatest manager and Dunn playing like a A prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 08:18 PM) So fire Oz and this is a playoff team? I could absolutely see that having been the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 07:21 PM) I could absolutely see that having been the case. Would you rather have Oz making better choices or Dunn and Rios playing at 80% of their career averages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 07:21 PM) I could absolutely see that having been the case. Not with the way Detroit has turned it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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