Walker and Williams Argue

[103 mph screwball]

Walker is a class act. That said, I have wanted a new hitting coach since 2006. Even in 2005 Dye and Konerko had long slumps. The way he handled those questions was excellent. Team first. I try to never wish another person to lose their job. Perhaps Walker can have a different role in the organization or maybe they add a second hitting coach which Hawk always suggests. The Sox can not dump Rios and Dunn and would be crazy to dump Bacon until another coach tries to fix him. The Sox would be foolish to risk Viciedo, De Aza, Flowers future as hitters as well.

 

1. Replace the manager and coaches

2. See if team improves

3. If they don't improve, KW has to be accountable

[Flash Tizzle]

Where is Dick Allen in all of this?

 

It took this long for KW to figure out the swing that Gordon took with him from Georgia was better? LOL, I thought most of us with the exception of the Walker apologists believed that. The guy was a stud. Now he's a headcase. And good luck getting him back to where he was, I don't see it happening, even after Walker is fired. I think the damage is done, but I hope I'm wrong.

LOL and I recall people suggesting his personality and level swing would allow him not to be in extended slumps.

 

He may look and have the personality of some rugby meathead, but he obviously knows that something is fundamentally wrong his his swing. I remember one day (I don't watch games too often, now) hearing a different song when he approached the plate at home. The Outfield was s***canned. I guess he's to that point now where even a different entrance song would be a welcomed change.

 

 

[Flash Tizzle]

Walker is a class act. That said, I have wanted a new hitting coach since 2006. Even in 2005 Dye and Konerko had long slumps. The way he handled those questions was excellent. Team first. I try to never wish another person to lose their job. Perhaps Walker can have a different role in the organization or maybe they add a second hitting coach which Hawk always suggests. The Sox can not dump Rios and Dunn and would be crazy to dump Bacon until another coach tries to fix him. The Sox would be foolish to risk Viciedo, De Aza, Flowers future as hitters as well.

 

1. Replace the manager and coaches

2. See if team improves

3. If they don't improve, KW has to be accountable

NO, enough chances; Williams is done. Everyone stop coming up with these scenarios that give anyone currently in a coaching/managing position one more chance. Everyone has been here for long enough that we know what they've done, and what they're capable of. The time has come to start over.

 

And what exactly is "improvement" in your eyes? If I was a Williams fan, I'd say that exact line too and then when the team wins 85 games next year I'd come up with some other excuse to justify holding onto him. There will always be a million.

[103 mph screwball]

NO, enough chances; Williams is done. Everyone stop coming up with these scenarios that give anyone currently in a coaching/managing position one more chance. Everyone has been here for long enough that we know what they've done, and what they're capable of. The time has come to start over.

 

And what exactly is "improvement" in your eyes? If I was a Williams fan, I'd say that exact line too and then when the team wins 85 games next year I'd come up with some other excuse to justify holding onto him. There will always be a million.

 

Improvement in my eyes would be Gordon playing at a level below what we expected but a solid hitter. It would be Dunn hitting .240 with 30+ HR. Rios could get his head out of his behind and play somewhat close to his career averages with some defense. Improvement would be whichever young guys that do end up sticking with the club next year do NOT REGRESS! Have we had a young hitter that did not get worse?

 

KW needs to stick because despite the major mistakes with Dunn, Rios, and Peavy, they seemed like good moves that were made to take the Sox to a higher level. Bold moves! They did not work out and that is a problem. However, KW continuously pulls guys out of nowhere like Humber, Thornton, Alexie, and TCQ which helps to average out the times when he swings for the fences and fails. I contend that KW's "guys" would be better with new coaches. Why? Because almost everyone that comes here that swings a stick tends to get worse. Is that always KW's bad judgement? Swisher seems OK now. I'd be willing to bet my Sox cap that Dunn would find his swing if he went somewhere else. We are stuck with those guys whatever guy we bring in for GM. Let's see what new coaching can do.

[Dick Allen]

Walker is also looking out for his future. He can't be spilling secrets and then expect another team to bring him on board. Even though the extent of his future in professional baseball should be nothing more than a base-coach, who knows what JR has lined up for him.

Walker has already stated numerous times when he's done with the Sox, he's done with major league baseball. It may be hard to believe there is a class act with the White Sox sometimes, but he certainly is one. I'm sure the source of the story is Cowley because this comes out the day after he gets pummelled on the radio. Cowley got it from Oney who got it from Ozzie. The "blowing up" of KW begins. Now Cowley is having someone do the dirty work for him.

Edited September 3, 2011 by Dick Allen

[Cali]

I was convinced this off-season would result in changes.... After this, I'm not so sure anymore. f***ing JR...

[Dick Allen]

I was convinced this off-season would result in changes.... After this, I'm not so sure anymore. f***ing JR...

There is going to be changes. Of the 3 main fan targets, KW, Ozzie and Walker, at most, IMO only 1 returns. Probably none at this point. I think KW has the best shot, but the JR loyalty thing is a two way street. He's loyal to his investors and they have to be not too impressed with the way KW has spent their money.

[Marty34]

NO, enough chances; Williams is done. Everyone stop coming up with these scenarios that give anyone currently in a coaching/managing position one more chance. Everyone has been here for long enough that we know what they've done, and what they're capable of. The time has come to start over.

 

And what exactly is "improvement" in your eyes? If I was a Williams fan, I'd say that exact line too and then when the team wins 85 games next year I'd come up with some other excuse to justify holding onto him. There will always be a million.

 

Sums up the situation perfectly.

[Balta1701]

There is going to be changes. Of the 3 main fan targets, KW, Ozzie and Walker, at most, IMO only 1 returns. Probably none at this point. I think KW has the best shot, but the JR loyalty thing is a two way street. He's loyal to his investors and they have to be not too impressed with the way KW has spent their money.

Like I've been saying...it all depends on exactly how much control over the decision making KW has really had.

 

If he came in and told JR that "I could spend $125 million and we'll have a 50-50 shot of winning the Central" and JR said "Go for it, it might save Ozzie if you do so"...then KW will have given the right advice.

[chw42]

Jerry just needs to let this Jerry Springer fest unfold. It'd be what's best for the team's future.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Walker is a class act.

Yeah, a class act that feels he can confront his bosses whenever his feelings are hurt and run to JR for cover. Remember how he went running to JR a few years back when Ozzie said that if the team doesn't start winning KW would have to make changes whether it be the manager, the players or the hitting coach? Walker cried to Jerry and Jerry told Ozzie to make nice with Walker.

 

That said, I have wanted a new hitting coach since 2006. Even in 2005 Dye and Konerko had long slumps. The Sox can not dump Rios and Dunn and would be crazy to dump Bacon until another coach tries to fix him. The Sox would be foolish to risk Viciedo, De Aza, Flowers future as hitters as well.

 

1. Replace the manager and coaches

2. See if team improves

3. If they don't improve, KW has to be accountable

This I agree with 100%.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

I'm sure the source of the story is Cowley because this comes out the day after he gets pummelled on the radio. Cowley got it from Oney who got it from Ozzie. The "blowing up" of KW begins. Now Cowley is having someone do the dirty work for him.

That's a good observation. It does seem odd that this incident reportedly happened weeks ago yet is suddenly reported the day after the Cowley embarassment on the radio, during which he mentioned he could "blow up" KW.

[kitekrazy]

There is going to be changes. Of the 3 main fan targets, KW, Ozzie and Walker, at most, IMO only 1 returns. Probably none at this point. I think KW has the best shot, but the JR loyalty thing is a two way street. He's loyal to his investors and they have to be not too impressed with the way KW has spent their money.

 

I don't know if that would be 100% true. We may find out how loyal JR is too certain people. As for the investors $$$ is more important than winning.

 

[Balta1701]

I don't know if that would be 100% true. We may find out how loyal JR is too certain people. As for the investors $$$ is more important than winning.

In a lot of sports, that's not true, or at least not all the time. Profit maximization is not the order of most teams.

[kitekrazy]

Yeah, a class act that feels he can confront his bosses whenever his feelings are hurt and run to JR for cover. Remember how he went running to JR a few years back when Ozzie said that if the team doesn't start winning KW would have to make changes whether it be the manager, the players or the hitting coach? Walker cried to Jerry and Jerry told Ozzie to make nice with Walker.

 

 

This I agree with 100%.

 

If that's the case then Ozzie looks more like a victim. I always thought Wal;ker deserved to lose his job more than anyone and Kenny wants him gone but Ozzie doesn't.

So many angles and stories with this organization.

 

[Lillian]

Improvement in my eyes would be Gordon playing at a level below what we expected but a solid hitter. It would be Dunn hitting .240 with 30+ HR. Rios could get his head out of his behind and play somewhat close to his career averages with some defense. Improvement would be whichever young guys that do end up sticking with the club next year do NOT REGRESS! Have we had a young hitter that did not get worse?

 

KW needs to stick because despite the major mistakes with Dunn, Rios, and Peavy, they seemed like good moves that were made to take the Sox to a higher level. Bold moves! They did not work out and that is a problem. However, KW continuously pulls guys out of nowhere like Humber, Thornton, Alexie, and TCQ which helps to average out the times when he swings for the fences and fails. I contend that KW's "guys" would be better with new coaches. Why? Because almost everyone that comes here that swings a stick tends to get worse. Is that always KW's bad judgement? Swisher seems OK now. I'd be willing to bet my Sox cap that Dunn would find his swing if he went somewhere else. We are stuck with those guys whatever guy we bring in for GM. Let's see what new coaching can do.

 

It's hard to argue with that. Very good point, and well stated.

[kitekrazy]

In a lot of sports, that's not true, or at least not all the time. Profit maximization is not the order of most teams.

 

I bet it's far more true than you think. Bill Wirtz still made money off a crappy hockey team. Look at how many sports teams have changed cities.

 

[Balta1701]

I bet it's far more true than you think. Bill Wirtz still made money off a crappy hockey team. Look at how many sports teams have changed cities.

There's a difference between wanting to turn a profit and wanting to maximize profit. The White Sox plan coming into this season was not to maximize profit, they could have done that without the $25 million total salary increase.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

If that's the case then Ozzie looks more like a victim. I always thought Wal;ker deserved to lose his job more than anyone and Kenny wants him gone but Ozzie doesn't.

So many angles and stories with this organization.

The thing is back when Ozzie made that statement he didn't really mean he wanted Walker gone. He was frustrated with the team's lack of hitting and said he wouldn't blame KW if he made a change whether it be himself, the players or the hitting coach. Basically he was including everybody in his statement. But Walker got all hyper-sensitive that Ozzie dared to include him in the list of those possibly accountable for the team's offensive struggles and went crying to JR. JR spoke to Ozzie and Ozzie had to publicly decalre that he didn't mean anything against Walker or the way he was doing his job. Walker remained cool to Ozzie for quite a while after that but since then Ozzie has publicly supported Walker whenever the offense has struggled.

 

What we do know that is Walker does deserve to lose his job, KW does want him gone but JR wants him to stay. And we know Ozzie says he wants him to stay but we don't know if it's because he's satisfied with his job performance or if he's just being a yes man to Jerry to stay on his good side.

 

Again, JR is the root of the problems with this organization.

Edited September 3, 2011 by South Side Fireworks Man

[Soxfest]

I take exception that Walker thinks he is a hitting coach.............he sucks and should of been gone 3 years ago.

[kitekrazy]

Improvement in my eyes would be Gordon playing at a level below what we expected but a solid hitter. It would be Dunn hitting .240 with 30+ HR. Rios could get his head out of his behind and play somewhat close to his career averages with some defense. Improvement would be whichever young guys that do end up sticking with the club next year do NOT REGRESS! Have we had a young hitter that did not get worse?

 

KW needs to stick because despite the major mistakes with Dunn, Rios, and Peavy, they seemed like good moves that were made to take the Sox to a higher level. Bold moves! They did not work out and that is a problem. However, KW continuously pulls guys out of nowhere like Humber, Thornton, Alexie, and TCQ which helps to average out the times when he swings for the fences and fails. I contend that KW's "guys" would be better with new coaches. Why? Because almost everyone that comes here that swings a stick tends to get worse. Is that always KW's bad judgement? Swisher seems OK now. I'd be willing to bet my Sox cap that Dunn would find his swing if he went somewhere else. We are stuck with those guys whatever guy we bring in for GM. Let's see what new coaching can do.

 

Of course if most players went to the Yankees the chances are they would be better. I would imagine a player like Swisher gets to see more hittable pitches because of the other guys in the lineup.

 

[Wanne]

Well...I'm ready for Hahn to take over. Hire Dave Martinez as manager and promote Chambliss to hitting coach. I swear...I've never been a DBag fan...but i am green with envy of the culture that staff of Gibson, Don Baylor and Trammel has instilled in that team. Gibson is the kind of manager that I always envisioned my pipe dream for Sox manager (Carlton Fisk) would be. It's just time for change...

[JoshPR]

Wow, that shows you how clueless the chairman is. If I was Kenny I would resign, he has no power. Any decision he makes will be overturned by Jerry

[max power]

Well...I'm ready for Hahn to take over. Hire Dave Martinez as manager and promote Chambliss to hitting coach. I swear...I've never been a DBag fan...but i am green with envy of the culture that staff of Gibson, Don Baylor and Trammel has instilled in that team. Gibson is the kind of manager that I always envisioned my pipe dream for Sox manager (Carlton Fisk) would be. It's just time for change...

Why? It makes no difference who the GM is, clearly. Jerry won't let him do anything that matters, not with the coaching staff, and not with the draft slot pay. I want a new owner.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Well...I'm ready for Hahn to take over. Hire Dave Martinez as manager and promote Chambliss to hitting coach. I swear...I've never been a DBag fan...but i am green with envy of the culture that staff of Gibson, Don Baylor and Trammel has instilled in that team. Gibson is the kind of manager that I always envisioned my pipe dream for Sox manager (Carlton Fisk) would be. It's just time for change...

 

That team is going to be flippin' good for a while. I'm known as the ultimate prospect overrater. But Skaggs and Bauer are the truth. And they've already got Kennedy and Hudson primed to start games 1 and 2 against Philly.