Walker and Williams Argue

[chw42]

The problem with the list IIRC is we'll never know what the other decision would have resulted in.

 

Oz had a terrible year, perhaps his worst year as a manager. In my opinion, if Dunn and/or Rios play close to their career averages, this team is in the playoffs. Their performance was much more of a factor than Oz. I'm not saying Oz doesn't share in the blame. I'm not saying he's done a good job. I'm saying players make a much bigger difference than the manager. I'd rather make poor decisions with good players that great decisions with mediocre. Of course good decisions with good players wins championships.

 

Oh Rios and Dunn have are a much bigger issue than Ozzie this season. Together, those two have cost the Sox at least 3-4 wins just by themselves. But Ozzie has also empowered them to be terrible by putting them in the lineup on a daily basis.

 

There's something called damage control and the whole KW vs. Ozzie debacle erased the possibility of that. We don't know the specifics of that problem, but if Ozzie can say "I make the f***ing lineups" to the fans, he outta have the balls to say it to Kenny too. After all, if Kenny has absolute power over Ozzie, Pierre would have been gone in July.

[Balta1701]

4 last year, but you also forget how absolutely worthless he was in tied games/2 inning outings.

And of course...games like the one he threw against the Twins where he came in, loaded the bases, gave up 2 runs, got 0 outs, and then Sergio came in to actually get credited with the blown save.

 

I thought we'd been through this.

[southsider2k5]

Greg, I bet last year you would have never predicted that soxtalk posters would be as understanding and forgiving about our closer, Sergio Santos, blowing 5 saves in pretty terrible fashion.

 

Santos is an odd duck as a closer. He is either dominant Mo-style, or he is just awful. 95% of the time it seems like he is on, it is the other 5% that destroys things. I wonder if the Sox have seen something in him, which is why Sale got more opportunities as the season went on.

[Balta1701]

Santos is an odd duck as a closer. He is either dominant Mo-style, or he is just awful. 95% of the time it seems like he is on, it is the other 5% that destroys things. I wonder if the Sox have seen something in him, which is why Sale got more opportunities as the season went on.

The Sox finally got more aggressive in pulling him out yesterday after he fell flat against the Tigers. Sale has gotten more opportunities because Sale found a groove and has been dominant.

[chetkincaid]

Santos is an odd duck as a closer. He is either dominant Mo-style, or he is just awful. 95% of the time it seems like he is on, it is the other 5% that destroys things. I wonder if the Sox have seen something in him, which is why Sale got more opportunities as the season went on.

 

Isn't that the case with most elite closers though?

[Balta1701]

Isn't that the case with most elite closers though?

I think the difference with Sergio is that when he doesn't have "it", he hasn't yet figured out how to get enough outs to slog through with the save. When Nathan doesn't have "it", he loads the bases but gets that last out somehow. When Sergio doesn't have it, there's 2 HR and a game over.

[southsider2k5]

Isn't that the case with most elite closers though?

 

Some guys seem to put guys on base in most outings. Jenks was like that most of the time, he just always found a way out of it.

[chetkincaid]

I think the difference with Sergio is that when he doesn't have "it", he hasn't yet figured out how to get enough outs to slog through with the save. When Nathan doesn't have "it", he loads the bases but gets that last out somehow. When Sergio doesn't have it, there's 2 HR and a game over.

 

 

Some guys seem to put guys on base in most outings. Jenks was like that most of the time, he just always found a way out of it.

 

 

Ah. Well maybe another year of experience will teach Santos how to deal with situations where he doesn't have "it". He's still fairly young and hasn't been pitching that long. I know he likes talking to Mariano Rivera and getting advice from him.

 

I'm not too worried about him.

[southsider2k5]

Ah. Well maybe another year of experience will teach Santos how to deal with situations where he doesn't have "it". He's still fairly young and hasn't been pitching that long. I know he likes talking to Mariano Rivera and getting advice from him.

 

I'm not too worried about him.

 

That's just it. He is so "young" in terms of being a pitcher, it is hard to project him. Could he be a guy who gets figured out? Could he be wearing out again because he doesn't have much of a baseline? How much higher could his ceiling be? After all, not having those innings on your arm could be a bonus in the long run too.

 

It is just hard to say.

[Kyyle23]

Greg, I bet last year you would have never predicted that soxtalk posters would be as understanding and forgiving about our closer, Sergio Santos, blowing 5 saves in pretty terrible fashion.

 

He was too busy predicting that we would all sorely miss Jenks when he was gone.

 

 

Spot on

[Marty34]

Santos can't throw multiple innings and is a closer in name only. He is Jessie Crain. Deal him while his value is inflated.

[Marty34]

Ugh.

Fathom you are a successful grown man who knows the ways of the world. And you think Ozzie has the option to truly bench $14 mill a year and $12 mill a year which, forgive me if I'm wrong, are what Dunn n Rios are making? Just because of one sentence uttered by KW in the media? That he gave Oz his blessing to bench the 2 megamillionares?

 

The problem with benching them is you are not going to win it without them. Might play better for a bit, but you're not going to get the production expected from Rios and Dunn before the season began from anyone at Charlotte.

[BigSqwert]

The problem with benching them is you are not going to win it without them. Might play better for a bit, but you're not going to get the production expected from Rios and Dunn before the season began from anyone at Charlotte.

 

That 2nd sentence contradicts everything you've been saying about Kenny "The Genius" Williams.

Edited September 6, 2011 by BigSqwert

[Balta1701]

The problem with benching them is you are not going to win it without them. Might play better for a bit, but you're not going to get the production expected from Rios and Dunn before the season began from anyone at Charlotte.

The biggest issue with this post is that since coming up...Viciedo and De Aza have provided exactly that level of production.

[southsider2k5]

The biggest issue with this post is that since coming up...Viciedo and De Aza have provided exactly that level of production.

 

Viciedo is on a 40 homer pace since he got up?

[Marty34]

That 2nd sentence contradicts everything you've been saying about Kenny "The Genius" Williams.

 

Squirt, Kenny "The Genius" Williams scouted and signed Dunn. Whether you like it or not, he's responsible for him being on this roster. The contracts of Dunn, Rios, and Peavy are firable offenses. Just as Guillen missing the playoffs three consecutive years in a major market is a fireable offense.

[southsider2k5]

Squirt, Kenny "The Genius" Williams scouted and signed Dunn. Whether you like it or not, he's responsible for him being on this roster. The contracts of Dunn, Rios, and Peavy are firable offenses. Just as Guillen missing the playoffs three consecutive years in a major market is a fireable offense.

 

Guillen is responsible for these guys once they get here. It should sound alarm bells when guys with proven track records fail once they get to Chicago.

[Marty34]

The biggest issue with this post is that since coming up...Viciedo and De Aza have provided exactly that level of production.

 

And they have lost ground in the central.

[Marty34]

Guillen is responsible for these guys once they get here. It should sound alarm bells when guys with proven track records fail once they get to Chicago.

 

Guillen is responsible for no playoff appearances in the last three years.

[Balta1701]

Viciedo is on a 40 homer pace since he got up?

.876 OPS is right where Dunn was supposed to be. GMAB.

[fathom]

Santos has got to get back to throwing his change-up effectively. His fastball is too straight as well, so on days when his slider isn't effective, he's extremely hittable for the opposition.

[southsider2k5]

.876 OPS is right where Dunn was supposed to be. GMAB.

 

Dunn hasn't registered a number that low since 2006. Well at least until this year.

[ILMOU]

Squirt, Kenny "The Genius" Williams scouted and signed Dunn. Whether you like it or not, he's responsible for him being on this roster. The contracts of Dunn, Rios, and Peavy are firable offenses. Just as Guillen missing the playoffs three consecutive years in a major market is a fireable offense.

 

This is ridiculous. Dunn's contract was a relative bargain compared to the market.

 

Might still be better than Werth's contract when all is said and dunn.

[ILMOU]

Dunn hasn't registered a number that low since 2006. Well at least until this year.

 

Let's maybe give it a few more games .... DV hits two tonight, he's on pace for 70 - whoop de doo

[southsider2k5]

This is ridiculous. Dunn's contract was a relative bargain compared to the market.

 

Might still be better than Werth's contract when all is said and dunn.

 

People forget that... Dunn was in demand. As a matter of a fact the Tigers wanted him really badly, and Washington offered him the same dollars as we did, they just wouldn't go to four years.