And that, my friends, is a White Sox season

[Marty34]

I just threw up. There's no way that's viable.

 

It's the only way to rebuild right.

 

[max power]

I said upside. There's no way anybody can look at the two organizations right now and say we have more upside than them.

What do you mean by upside? They have more offensive talent. They won't make the playoffs and therefore, can't win a championship. We can, if we get hot at the right time.

[greg775]

The Blue Jays and Orioles have been rebuilding for 15 years.

 

Excellent point.

Guys, this rebuilding stuff is a horrible myth.

You retool with smart baseball people in charge.

For instance you CQ haters are crazy.

The outfield MUST be Viciedo, DeAza and CQ out there. That means SOMEHOW you dump Rios.

Even if you have to pay the whole contract.

We will keep Dunn and PRAY he can hit 30 homers somehow, but to POSSIBLY contend, that should be our outfield. That is not a total rebuild. Pieces are there.

Then we got Morel, Lexi, Becks and Paulie in the infield. NOT BAD if the new hitting coach can help Morel, Lexi and Becks some. Yes Lexi needs some help, too.

Catcher: AJ and Flowers is OK, though AJ better agree to a reduced load. Flowers is ready. That could be a problem.

 

Trade one of Danks/Floyd (is Danks a free agent) and trade Beckham if you have to. You can always find a second baseman somewhere. Our strengths with CQ and Dayan will be outfield and infield and hopefully starting pitching.

 

Keep as many proven pitchers as you can. Try to get more reliable bullpen guys.

 

A total rebuild though is dumb. Do you want to dump the entire pitching staff for some reason?

 

You do what the Yankees do. Use free agency baby.

Try to catch lightning in a bottle. Total rebuilding is idiotic. It may take 15 years.

[Jordan4life_2007]

What do you mean by upside? They have more offensive talent. They won't make the playoffs and therefore, can't win a championship. We can, if we get hot at the right time.

 

What? This season is shot for both teams. I mean going forward. Do you want to say they have the harder road to travel? Yes. They're in a MUCH tougher division. But simply looking at the the players, majors and minors, current contract statuses and overall payroll obligations, it's not close.

[max power]

What? This season is shot for both teams. I mean going forward. Do you want to say they have the harder road to travel? Yes. They're in a MUCH tougher division. But simply looking at the the players, majors and minors, current contract statuses and overall payroll obligations, it's not close.

Yes, I'm talking about the next three years still. I don't think they will make the playoffs in any of those years. There are three better teams in their division with three even better upsides still.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Yes, I'm talking about the next three years still. I don't think they will make the playoffs in any of those years. There are three better teams in their division with three even better upsides still.

 

And I'm sure before '08 you never thought Tampa could win 2 of the next three division titles in that division.

[max power]

And I'm sure before '08 you never thought Tampa could win 2 of the next three division titles in that division.

To be honest, I never thought if they would or wouldn't compete. I wish I had, then you may have a point. They are two very different teams.

[Greg Hibbard]

C'mon Hibbard, you're better than that.

 

A race they had no business being in?

 

Even the Twins after being 20 games under .500 were legitimately back into the race before falling off again.

 

The White Sox had 3-4 months to put together a run and they didn't manage it. They had no business NOT being in it.

 

For most of the second half, they were 2 1/2 to 6 1/2 games back.

 

I'm pretty sure we were only 11-7 in interleague play this year. Change that to 15-3...which came in the midst of that 26-5 run in 2010...and we're legitmately a part of the playoff conversation, even at this late point.

 

We went 57-43 over the next 100 games after May 6th. That middle 100 games was as good a record as I think this team could have posted with Dunn, Rios, the pitching staff, Konerko, the bullpen, posting the projected numbers I would have expected, and facing the schedule we were facing. The entire pitching staff (Humber in particular, but Buehrle too) seemed to excel beyond expectations, but that's never noted. Obviously Konerko is having a career year, probably the best he's ever likely to have, and it won't be close.

 

I would have never thought it was realistic to go something like 65-35 over 100 games with this team, and even 60-40 seemed like a stretch for this team, but it might have been doable. 57-43 is a very impressive 100 game run that seemed to get them back into a race. I would take a 92-win pace over 100 games every time without complaint. I can't say the same for most people on this site, obviously; 57-43 was nowhere near what they wanted from that team over that stretch, and the nightly comments illustrating their refusal to take into account the overall picture was nothing short of dumbfounding.

 

We were out of this thing on May 6th. We started out too poorly for this team over 33 games to recover - that is the lesson of 2011. If we had exceptional offensive talent and a couple of superstars like New York and Boston perennially does, I could have seen a comeback. However, even the Red Sox had righted the ship to 4 games under by then, after starting 0-8. 33 games is just too f***ing many games to be that bad over for this organization.

 

We may actually end up having a winning September. It wouldn't surprise me. It would be kind of hilarious if 2011 was the best August-September run since the 1990s. People would say it was meaningless (even if they squeaked into the playoffs miraculously). Certainly 16-12 in August should have surprised a few people.

 

J4L, I sincerely hope you do stop watching this team, for the most part. I can't see how watching something you absolutely don't believe in or care for would be of any benefit to you. Nonetheless, cheers.

Edited September 4, 2011 by Greg Hibbard

[southsider2k5]

I'd say we'll field a team that could possibly be competitive if the expensive guys step up, but a team that will be a fair amount younger than this one, with a substantial salary cut.

 

If Dunn and Rios had good seasons, this is an easy 90 win team with its pitching.

[SI1020]

If Dunn and Rios had good seasons, this is an easy 90 win team with its pitching.

Probably many said with Dunn and Rios this is an easy 90 win team. Who knows who is going to surprise one way or another next year. That and I see nothing special about the White Sox pitching staff. Oh it's been pretty good so far this year, but nothing exceptional.

 

[southsider2k5]

Probably many said with Dunn and Rios this is an easy 90 win team. Who knows who is going to surprise one way or another next year. That and I see nothing special about the White Sox pitching staff. Oh it's been pretty good so far this year, but nothing exceptional.

 

The only guy who has really out-performed this season is Konerko.

[kitekrazy]

Yes, it is almost certainly over.

 

This is not even close to a bad team, just a disappointing and frustrating one.

 

I commend the team for clawing back into a race they had no business being in.

 

However, they will finish probably 10 games worse than they should.

 

Maybe they are a bad team. It seems the pitching is good at folding under pressure. Even before Ozzie was manager you would see Sox teams fold under pressure.

 

[kitekrazy]

I love how you guys keep saying this as though anyone who wants a rebuild is completely ignorant. I am well aware that it may take years, and I'm fine with that. I'll watch anyway.

 

Unless it's a Royal's rebuild. When are they going to finish it? They still have to hit on their draft choices.

 

[JoshPR]

No it isn't.

 

There are plenty of Sox teams that finished with much worse winning percentages in the .300s and low .400s in their history.

 

1988 & 1989 most recently.

And? You can add 07 to that

[southsider2k5]

Unless it's a Royal's rebuild. When are they going to finish it? They still have to hit on their draft choices.

 

Or Pirates...

[JoshPR]

If Dunn and Rios had good seasons, this is an easy 90 win team with its pitching.

Agree 100%. I think there's more turmoil going on than what we know about, the kind that kills chemistry, a lot of personal agendas.

[JoshPR]

I would love a rebuild, but jerry's unwillingness to spend in scouting and the draft kills. The sox have some good pieces, but the philosophy is messed up. Just look how many power pitchers have sox drafted in the last 10 years? 1, 2? Sale and who? Like they say ohh he's got a power changeup, his fastball sits in the 88 mph range... Sorry you have to be really good to make it on that and how many have for the sox lately? Buehrle and..? So until the sox change there mindset and philosophy of there farm system and how they pursue talent, this type of situation is gonna happen a lot....

[Dick Allen]

I would love a rebuild, but jerry's unwillingness to spend in scouting and the draft kills. The sox have some good pieces, but the philosophy is messed up. Just look how many power pitchers have sox drafted in the last 10 years? 1, 2? Sale and who? Like they say ohh he's got a power changeup, his fastball sits in the 88 mph range... Sorry you have to be really good to make it on that and how many have for the sox lately? Buehrle and..? So until the sox change there mindset and philosophy of there farm system and how they pursue talent, this type of situation is gonna happen a lot....

They have drafted plenty of power pitchers over the years, but they don't pan out often. What you hit on is a guy who is at 88 but gets up to 95. I read an article one time which said the vast majority of guys that throw 95 in high school usually aren't much above 90 if that, 5 years later.

[greg775]

What do you rebuild lovers mean by a rebuild?

I assume you like Flowers, DeAza and Tank. OK those are 3 guys right there that should help a retooling rather than big rebuild.

For that to happen, though we have to somehow dump Rios or just release him. Or tell him he's our 4th outfielder period. I can live with trying Dunn again next year.

I assume you rebuild lovers think Lexi and Beckham are worth keeping and Paulie has another year left on his deal or 2 years I think and you all want him to stay I'd assume.

I'd assume you think Morel is worth trying next year. We already have him.

That leaves the pitching.

Do you want a complete rebuild of the staff?? If so, why?

 

If financial constraints are so bad, I guess I could see making one trade or two, but why a total rebuild in light of what I have just said??

Do you want to rebuild the bullpen? The entire starting rotation?

We still could use more speed even with DeAza, so maybe dump Becks for some faster guy??

 

I don't get the rebuild lovers. Explain por favor what you want??

Does rebuilding mean trading CQ for a couple young pitchers or something? Or trading Becks? I can understand that. You can dump one of either Floyd/Danks and trade one of either CQ or Becks without it being a TOTAL 15 year Royals like rebuild can't u?

Edited September 4, 2011 by greg775

[winninguglyin83]

It's all just sad. Soon it will be cold and dark and most of us will be missing baseball.

 

then we'll start looking forward to next season -- until we remember we're doomed with Dunn and Rios.

 

For three more years.

 

 

[greg775]

It's all just sad. Soon it will be cold and dark and most of us will be missing baseball.

 

then we'll start looking forward to next season -- until we remember we're doomed with Dunn and Rios.

 

For three more years.

 

After this season I don't think I will be counting the days til spring training like I normally do.

I've been conditioned to being a fan of a team that plays very bad, slow, uninspired baseball and loses games in all sorts of miserable ways.

 

Gonna have to get conditioned back to thinking we have a shot.

Even though we were within five games a few times this was the first season in a long time we've been out of it all year, so hopefully the Sox got that out of their system and next season we can at least contend.

Edited September 5, 2011 by greg775

[Flash Tizzle]

At this point, everyone should just take joy in their losses. Let it be a fun mixture of bad baseball, terrible coaching, and hopefully more in-fighting between Williams and the coaches!

 

 

[greg775]

At this point, everyone should just take joy in their losses. Let it be a fun mixture of bad baseball, terrible coaching, and hopefully more in-fighting between Williams and the coaches!

 

Yeah, this is the first year I agree with you guys that losing is fine the last month.

These players have been so s***ty all season I would just as soon have them drop 20 more games.

Although guys like DeAza seem to play awfully hard. Even Juan hustles his ass off.

Edited September 5, 2011 by greg775

[Flash Tizzle]

[nitetrain8601]

They have drafted plenty of power pitchers over the years, but they don't pan out often. What you hit on is a guy who is at 88 but gets up to 95. I read an article one time which said the vast majority of guys that throw 95 in high school usually aren't much above 90 if that, 5 years later.

 

IMO, what the Sox have to do is spend overslot. Be willing to take that guy and sign him, who ends up falling because he wants a ton of dough. JR is reluctant to do that, but I believe he could be convinced, especially if you tell him overall payroll would be down. Remember, Jerry was reluctant to have a high payroll, but he gave into that.