Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) A rebuild to me is not the equivalent of the boogeyman to a 5-year old. 2006: second half collapse 2007: 90 losses 2008: Thank you Rick Hahn's son 2009: sub-.500 record 2010: mediocre play all around with a great 30-game run sandwiched in between 2011: no explanation needed Payroll: 2006: $102,750,667 2007: $108,671,833 2008: $121,189,332 2009: $ 96,068,500 2010: $103,080,000 2011: $127,789,000 That's a lot of coin for one division title and a playoff win. Suffice it to say the "White Sox" way has proven to be as efficient as a no mouth dog at a frisbee contest (I got that from Fresh Prince). "We don't know what were asking for?" I counter that by saying those who come up with 53782346043634641 reasons on why rebuilding, even a semi-rebuild, is a potential horror movie in the making don't know what they're asking for. Times are a changing. And we're standing still why other teams are flying right by. Teams are devoting more and more on scouting/drafting than ever before. Overpaying for free agents (save the elite ones) has proven to be every bit as risky as going with kids. The Mets, Cubs and our Sox have more then proven that. There is no bulletproof formula. But ours sure as hell doesn't work. Edited September 4, 2011 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 04:20 PM) We really dont' need multiple threads for the end of the season each with someone's cute title. They can all go here. I agree. It's bad enough to reach the end like this and worse when you have a dozen titles a day all saying the same thing. I get it. Ok folks?! Edited September 4, 2011 by elrockinMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 09:21 AM) Yes, it is almost certainly over. This is not even close to a bad team, just a disappointing and frustrating one. I commend the team for clawing back into a race they had no business being in. However, they will finish probably 10 games worse than they should. C'mon Hibbard, you're better than that. A race they had no business being in? Even the Twins after being 20 games under .500 were legitimately back into the race before falling off again. The White Sox had 3-4 months to put together a run and they didn't manage it. They had no business NOT being in it. For most of the second half, they were 2 1/2 to 6 1/2 games back. I'm pretty sure we were only 11-7 in interleague play this year. Change that to 15-3...which came in the midst of that 26-5 run in 2010...and we're legitmately a part of the playoff conversation, even at this late point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCangelosi Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) Isn't it interesting that seemingly every year we go into a series in September where we HAVE to sweep (usually it's against the Twins) in order to stay in the race and instead we get swept? Is it just me or is this Deja Vu??? Edited September 4, 2011 by JohnCangelosi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkfan Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 It's over! Bring out the tarps! Turn this place into a parking lot! God Damnit.... I've been in all year until now. If only the NFL started today I wouldn't be as depressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 11:03 AM) They have no idea what they are asking for. Too much OOTP where a rebuild takes a week. I love how you guys keep saying this as though anyone who wants a rebuild is completely ignorant. I am well aware that it may take years, and I'm fine with that. I'll watch anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 QUOTE (Hawkfan @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 01:17 PM) It's over! Bring out the tarps! Turn this place into a parking lot! God Damnit.... I've been in all year until now. If only the NFL started today I wouldn't be as depressed. You missed about 1/3 of the words in the original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 12:21 PM) I love how you guys keep saying this as though anyone who wants a rebuild is completely ignorant. I am well aware that it may take years, and I'm fine with that. I'll watch anyway. Reading the posts here on a daily basis, I really don't think that is true for most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCangelosi Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 12:21 PM) I love how you guys keep saying this as though anyone who wants a rebuild is completely ignorant. I am well aware that it may take years, and I'm fine with that. I'll watch anyway. Most likely we're all in next year as well. Just with a new management team, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 01:32 PM) Most likely we're all in next year as well. Just with a new management team, however. I'd say we'll field a team that could possibly be competitive if the expensive guys step up, but a team that will be a fair amount younger than this one, with a substantial salary cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) When I think of 'rebuild' I think of two types: - planned - unplanned Unplanned rebuilds occur when a team sucks for several consecutive years... resulting in a wave of young talent due to draft picks. The only teams I can think of that intentionally go through a planned rebuild are the ones that are forced to financially. And most of these are small-mid market teams that can't afford signing their better players once they hit free-agency, so they have to trade them for potential and start over. Somebody help me out with a couple of examples of larger market teams that have done complete planned rebuilds. Edited September 4, 2011 by scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 QUOTE (scenario @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 12:40 PM) When I think of 'rebuild' I think of two types: - planned - unplanned Unplanned rebuilds occur when a team sucks for several consecutive years... resulting in a wave of young talent due to draft picks. The only teams I can think of that intentionally go through a planned rebuild are the ones that are forced to financially. And most of these are small-mid market teams that can't afford signing their better players once they hit free-agency, so they have to trade them for potential and start over. Somebody help me out with a couple of examples of larger market teams that have done complete planned rebuilds. Rangers come to mind. They're not where they are now because of a bunch of top 5 picks. Nolan Ryan came in and totally changed the culture there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 QUOTE (scenario @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 01:40 PM) Somebody help me out with a couple of examples of larger market teams that have done complete planned rebuilds. I think what the Giants did (tetrahydrogestrinone replaced by a team built off of Lincecum, Cain, et al.) to win their title and what the Phillies did (Letting Thome go and restarting around Howard, Utley, and a young pitching staff) are fairly close examples of big market rebuilding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 06:21 PM) I love how you guys keep saying this as though anyone who wants a rebuild is completely ignorant. I am well aware that it may take years, and I'm fine with that. I'll watch anyway. As long as there is a coherent plan in place and some viable young talent is in the pipeline I'm totally fine with a rebuild. Right now the Sox are headed off a cliff, change is necessary for survival. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 The Astros appear to be doing a full rebuilding right now, and what the Angels are doing right now could certainly be termed rebuilding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 The Blue Jays and Orioles have been rebuilding for 15 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 01:08 PM) The Blue Jays and Orioles have been rebuilding for 15 years. You like a .500 team with not much upside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) I am sure we will be seeing plenty of "Here's what I would do for 2012" threads in the future but I just looked at a payroll spreadsheet. I had no idea that the Sox had put more money on the back of Dunn's contract and that he and Rios are here till 2014. I can't see their value being raised to the point where the Sox could actually trade them as they will be older then and own no-trade clauses. Is it realistic to think that the Sox will be shopping this winter to dump Quentin and Thornton while letting Pierre and Buehrle walk? As much as I believe Buehrle could continue pitching as well as he has into his mid 30s, I doubt he would be able to take a paycut or stay here for a hometown discount especially when he has always been rumored to go back to St. Louis. Why is it unrealistic to Guillen that Lillibridge couldn't play every day in right field? Does he not have the range to throw runners out? Will he just hit poorly since the pitchers will pick up on him in the scouting reports? Stating my position clearly, it would be great to get rid of both KW and Ozzie and replace them with Hahn and somebody other than that drunken assclown LaRussa (and please, not Bobby Valentine). Go young next year and play the guys who could succeed or fail at lower dollar amounts than some of the clowns we have played this past season. Edited September 4, 2011 by MuckFinnesota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 01:56 PM) You like a .500 team with not much upside. More than those two organizations, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 QUOTE (MuckFinnesota @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 02:23 PM) I am sure we will be seeing plenty of "Here's what I would do for 2012" threads in the future but I just looked at a payroll spreadsheet. I had no idea that the Sox had put more money on the back of Dunn's contract and that he and Rios are here till 2014. I can't see their value being raised to the point where the Sox could actually trade them as they will be older then and own no-trade clauses. Is it realistic to think that the Sox will be shopping this winter to dump Quentin and Thornton while letting Pierre and Buehrle walk? As much as I believe Buehrle could continue pitching as well as he has into his mid 30s, I doubt he would be able to take a paycut or stay here for a hometown discount especially when he has always been rumored to go back to St. Louis. Why is it unrealistic to Guillen that Lillibridge couldn't play every day in right field? Does he not have the range to throw runners out? Will he just hit poorly since the pitchers will pick up on him in the scouting reports? Stating my position clearly, it would be great to get rid of both KW and Ozzie and replace them with Hahn and somebody other than that drunken assclown LaRussa (and please, not Bobby Valentine). Go young next year and play the guys who could succeed or fail at lower dollar amounts than some of the clowns we have played this past season. Build around Peavy, Rios, Dunn, Konerko, and Buehrle. Trade Danks, Floyd, Quentin, Ramirez, Thornton and Santos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 01:05 PM) The Astros appear to be doing a full rebuilding right now, and what the Angels are doing right now could certainly be termed rebuilding. Can you please tell me why you consider the angels a rebuilding effort? Didn't they pick up vernon wells before this year? I think they were hoping to compete for a title, not rebuild. Edited September 4, 2011 by MAX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 QUOTE (MAX @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 02:29 PM) More than those two organizations, yes. The Bluejays have infinitely more upside than the Sox. The Orioles flat suck. Though I'd give up Doritos for Matt Wieters. QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 02:30 PM) Build around Peavy, Rios, Dunn, Konerko, and Buehrle. Trade Danks, Floyd, Quentin, Ramirez, Thornton and Santos. I just threw up. There's no way that's viable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 02:36 PM) The Bluejays have infinitely more upside than the Sox. The Orioles flat suck. Though I'd give up Doritos for Matt Wieters. I just threw up. There's no way that's viable. The blue jays are the second worst team in their division, and will likely remain there for the next 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 QUOTE (MAX @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 02:33 PM) Can you please tell me why you consider the angels a rebuilding effort? Didn't they pick up vernon wells before this year? I think they were hoping to compete for a title, not rebuild. Yeah, I didn't get that one, either. Not to mention they traded for Dan Haren last year. They have had a really good year in infusing legitimate youth from within, though. Mark Trumbo, Peter Bourjos, Mike Trout and Jordan Walden. Still doesn't constitute anywhere near a rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 QUOTE (MAX @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 02:37 PM) The blue jays are the second worst team in their division, and will likely remain there for the next 3 years. I said upside. There's no way anybody can look at the two organizations right now and say we have more upside than them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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