Balta1701 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 12:51 PM) No not at all. There is plenty of blame to go around, including the players in question. Is there a manager in the world that you would give a pass to and then blame Dunn and Rios? Oz 10% Players 90% is about my assessment. Let me put it this way...I have no idea how the balance goes, but "only a portion of the problem is the manager" tells me that if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 A struggling team was on a roll for a week before getting trounced by the class of the division. I was just thinking, it is amazing this is a second place team. How much talent to you have to start with to play this crappy and be a second place team? Yeah $125,000,000 of talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 11:53 AM) Let me put it this way...I have no idea how the balance goes, but "only a portion of the problem is the manager" tells me that if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Ok, the entire organization is a problem. Same as if the organization wins, everyone shares the credit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 11:54 AM) A struggling team was on a roll for a week before getting trounced by the class of the division. I was just thinking, it is amazing this is a second place team. How much talent to you have to start with to play this crappy and be a second place team? Yeah $125,000,000 of talent. Don't you mean 3rd place in a terrible division? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 12:55 PM) Ok, the entire organization is a problem. Same as if the organization wins, everyone shares the credit. As long as you understand that you're not defending Guillen, you're indicting him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 11:59 AM) As long as you understand that you're not defending Guillen, you're indicting him. Sure. But not nearly to the same degree as placing a majority of the blame on him. Are you not indicting any of the players? or is it all Oz's fault? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 12:02 PM) Sure. But not nearly to the same degree as placing a majority of the blame on him. Are you not indicting any of the players? or is it all Oz's fault? Who is more to blame. The veteran player hitting so bad that he is now in some historic conversations on futility. Or the manager who trotted him out there in the 4 hole and against lefties for the better part of the season. Most managers drop the player in the order to help him find himself and then work on match-ups. Guillen seemed to go against the grain and just throw him into the 4 hole into the wolves so to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 12:10 PM) Who is more to blame. The veteran player hitting so bad that he is now in some historic conversations on futility. Or the manager who trotted him out there in the 4 hole and against lefties for the better part of the season. Most managers drop the player in the order to help him find himself and then work on match-ups. Guillen seemed to go against the grain and just throw him into the 4 hole into the wolves so to speak. Both share the blame, more to Dunn. And blame is maybe not the right word. Responsibility would be better. Who is more responsible for Dunn's performance? I believe Dunn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 01:02 PM) Sure. But not nearly to the same degree as placing a majority of the blame on him. Are you not indicting any of the players? or is it all Oz's fault? And an appropriate response might have been to replace those struggling players, or to bench them at least for a long time, and put guys who were deserving of playing time in the lineup. That would have meant taking Dunn, Rios, Pierre for a while, maybe Beckham also, out of the lineup for days, weeks at a time and getting at bats for Viciedo, De Aza, and Lillibridge almost every day. But...Ozzie Guillen said no to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 11:28 AM) That was then and this is now type thing. That's baseball don't you agree? What?! He completely refuted the point you made, and that was your response? I don't even know what it's supposed to mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 11:28 AM) That was then and this is now type thing. That's baseball don't you agree? You're hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 12:14 PM) Both share the blame, more to Dunn. And blame is maybe not the right word. Responsibility would be better. Who is more responsible for Dunn's performance? I believe Dunn. So as a manager if I have 2 engineers. One of which forgot how to do his job. If I knowingly send the one to customers day in an day out and leave the other one on the engineering bench. Am I doing my job. I mean sure, the engineer is incompetent and probably needs to get better. However do you think my clients will care. Do you think they will call up and say well you know, its not your fault that he blew up our system. I blame the engineer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 It's unfortunate Ozzie was allowed to continue his antics for so long. He managed us brilliantly to a World Series title, and I'll always love him for that. BUT GET THE F*CK OUT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 05:24 PM) Yeah that was Ozzie laughing in the dugout last night. LAUGHING. When asked on air if he would be laughing, Bobby Valentine said "I don't think I could force a smile right now..." What's wrong with laughing at these losers? He has it made. Will get a 4-5 year deal in Florida for a lot of loot. Somebody else can coach these plodding losers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 03:18 PM) What's wrong with laughing at these losers? He has it made. Will get a 4-5 year deal in Florida for a lot of loot. Somebody else can coach these plodding losers. "A lot of loot" from Florida? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 08:21 PM) "A lot of loot" from Florida? You don't think he'll make more than he did here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Uh oh. Fifth inning. This could be the six-run spot on Humber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 03:24 PM) You don't think he'll make more than he did here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 02:18 PM) What's wrong with laughing at these losers? He has it made. Will get a 4-5 year deal in Florida for a lot of loot. Somebody else can coach these plodding losers. He will get a 3 year deal tops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted September 5, 2011 Author Share Posted September 5, 2011 Ozzie will fail in Florida. He'll bench Stanton for hitting HRs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 07:45 PM) He will get a 3 year deal tops. It will be four year deal. Why wouldn't it be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 12:29 PM) So as a manager if I have 2 engineers. One of which forgot how to do his job. If I knowingly send the one to customers day in an day out and leave the other one on the engineering bench. Am I doing my job. I mean sure, the engineer is incompetent and probably needs to get better. However do you think my clients will care. Do you think they will call up and say well you know, its not your fault that he blew up our system. I blame the engineer. I would fire him right away. Are you suggesting Dunn should have been fired? You really used that example? Do you seriously think that is a good comparison? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 04:00 PM) It will be four year deal. Why wouldn't it be? Because it doesn't need to be? Florida is generally cheap anyway, and Ozzie is not exactly going to have a lot of negotiating strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 04:48 PM) lol. Thanks but a 1,000 posts that Oz sucks and should be fired versus two that it ain't all his fault is about right I guess we were destroyed or something, or so I was told I never believed it was all Ozzie's fault. I am sure though this off season will be plenty interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 03:18 PM) I guess we were destroyed or something, or so I was told I never believed it was all Ozzie's fault. I am sure though this off season will be plenty interesting LOL. Ozzie single handily destroyed a couple player's careers. With a different manager, Dunn would be an MVP candidate and Mark would be an ace. It is easier to blame one guy than a roster of players. I think it is time to break up the KW / OG team, but Oz isn't the reason Dunn and Rios had two of the most memorable years in modern baseball history. And if I was going to keep just one, KW is definitely the one I would keep. It would be silly to suggest that Oz had a great season as manager, along with everyone else, he was below expectations. Also, watch how fast players start blaming the guy who is let go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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