Sox winner . Doesn't anybody care about..

[Jordan4life_2007]

Also, I think if you're saying it didn't matter that we went up and swept them when we were 6.5 out with 6 left to play against detroit on August 5th-7th, you're lying to yourself (Minnesota was 8 out of first entering that series)

 

What are you trying to prove, exactly?

[Greg Hibbard]

What are you trying to prove, exactly?

 

That we beat them in meaningful games this season, which you seem to have disputed.

 

Were those games meaningful at the time they were played or not?

Edited September 7, 2011 by Greg Hibbard

[Milkman delivers]

Yeah you've been pretty consistent about the worst case scenario ever since May

 

I'm not sure if you're just agreeing or taking a shot at me

[Jordan4life_2007]

That we beat them in meaningful games this season, which you seem to have disputed.

 

Were those games meaningful at the time they were played or not?

 

Well you can't possibly be referring to these last three games. The 5-1 record against them last month? Again, from a technical aspect, they meant something to us. As we were still 'in it'. It meant nothing to them. Seems like you're trying to say us beating them now when they're down is the same as them sending us home in '02, '03, '04, '06, and last year. It just isn't. But if you can find some type of joy in beating this thrift shop version of the Twins, while at the same time finishing a distant second to the Tigers, then by all means.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Jordan4life

[MexSoxFan#1]

"Ya know Stone Poney, after everything that's happened this year; Dunn, Rios, Beckham, Peavy, injuries to Carlos and such...to still finish in 2nd place? I believe this season has been saved. I think Kenny, Ozzie, and this whole bunch deserves a chance to go for it again next year."

 

f*** YOU HAWK!!!!

[SI1020]

Hopefully if this is Peavy's last start, he has something to build upon for next spring and he can finally ramp his velocity back up into the 94-95 MPH range and rediscover his slider.

 

Ending up with a sub 5 ERA is also nice...well, it's an improvement of sorts, albeit against a AAA line-up.

I don't think Peavy was ever consistently in the 94-95 range since he's been with the Sox. His velocity had been trending down even before his latissimus dorsi injury.

[fathom]

I don't think Peavy was ever consistently in the 94-95 range since he's been with the Sox. His velocity had been trending down even before his latissimus dorsi injury.

 

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I'm not sure if you're just agreeing or taking a shot at me

 

No i was saying I recall you bringing up pretty much this exact scenario we're in very early in the season. Like way before it all went to s***

[Texsox]

They are nice wins but I have no confidence in the team beating the Twins next year in a game that actually means something. Sad, but I don't think our team has the confidence either.

[Greg Hibbard]

Well you can't possibly be referring to these last three games. The 5-1 record against them last month? Again, from a technical aspect, they meant something to us. As we were still 'in it'. It meant nothing to them. Seems like you're trying to say us beating them now when they're down is the same as them sending us home in '02, '03, '04, '06, and last year. It just isn't. But if you can find some type of joy in beating this thrift shop version of the Twins, while at the same time finishing a distant second to the Tigers, then by all means.

 

Of course I'm not referring to these last three games. I'm referring to the three games from August 5th-7th, when the Twins were a game and a half behind us at 8 out, many here argued they were still even in the division race. We were 6.5 out with 6 left to play with the Tigers. The Tigers had also just gone 22-22 over their preceding 44 games, which suggested to many that they weren't going to finish too many games over .500. I know the revisionists here will pretend like all of these things are irrelevent, but the fact of the matter is that we could have folded up and headed for 5th place but made it interesting and effectively ended Minnesota's season.

[southsider2k5]

Of course I'm not referring to these last three games. I'm referring to the three games from August 5th-7th, when the Twins were a game and a half behind us at 8 out, many here argued they were still even in the division race. We were 6.5 out with 6 left to play with the Tigers. The Tigers had also just gone 22-22 over their preceding 44 games, which suggested to many that they weren't going to finish too many games over .500. I know the revisionists here will pretend like all of these things are irrelevent, but the fact of the matter is that we could have folded up and headed for 5th place but made it interesting and effectively ended Minnesota's season.

 

Yeah, we were supposed to be never above .500 this year, and long behind the Twins by now, right?

[Jordan4life_2007]

Of course I'm not referring to these last three games. I'm referring to the three games from August 5th-7th, when the Twins were a game and a half behind us at 8 out, many here argued they were still even in the division race. We were 6.5 out with 6 left to play with the Tigers. The Tigers had also just gone 22-22 over their preceding 44 games, which suggested to many that they weren't going to finish too many games over .500. I know the revisionists here will pretend like all of these things are irrelevent, but the fact of the matter is that we could have folded up and headed for 5th place but made it interesting and effectively ended Minnesota's season.

 

So when does the cookie tossing start? Could've folded and headed for 5th? You're really grasping.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Jordan4life

[elrockinMT]

2nd place? I am still in it for first place

[ILMOU]

Of course I'm not referring to these last three games. I'm referring to the three games from August 5th-7th, when the Twins were a game and a half behind us at 8 out, many here argued they were still even in the division race. We were 6.5 out with 6 left to play with the Tigers. The Tigers had also just gone 22-22 over their preceding 44 games, which suggested to many that they weren't going to finish too many games over .500. I know the revisionists here will pretend like all of these things are irrelevent, but the fact of the matter is that we could have folded up and headed for 5th place but made it interesting and effectively ended Minnesota's season.

 

We're done before Labor Day and this is making it interesting? That's a pretty low threshhold.

[Jordan4life_2007]

2nd place? I am still in it for first place

 

Sure you are.

[Greg Hibbard]

So when does the cookie tossing start? Could've folded and headed for 5th? You're really grasping.

 

It started and ended with the sweep @Detroit.

 

I think the more pertinent things are that as of Aug 5, Detroit had not gotten hot or shown any signs that they were much better than a .500 team, and Minnesota was pretty effectively still in that race, especially when factoring in the record of catching the Tigers late.

[Milkman delivers]

No i was saying I recall you bringing up pretty much this exact scenario we're in very early in the season. Like way before it all went to s***

 

Well, in that case:

[Greg Hibbard]

When are people going to finally admit that Detroit going 19-7 over their last 26, even besides the sweep, might have SOMETHING to do with the fact that our season is over?

[Greg Hibbard]

We're done before Labor Day and this is making it interesting? That's a pretty low threshhold.

 

What is with the straw man responses?

 

Yes, we made it interesting on August 5th, 6th and 7th, against a Minnesota team we had not beaten, IN Minnesota.

Yes, we are done before labor day.

 

Do you see how those two things are not mutually exclusive?

Do you also see how the point of making it interesting on August 5th was that we beat the Twins when it actually counted a great deal?

[Jordan4life_2007]

What is with the straw man responses?

 

Yes, we made it interesting on August 5th, 6th and 7th, against a Minnesota team we had not beaten, IN Minnesota.

Yes, we are done before labor day.

 

Do you see how those two things are not mutually exclusive?

Do you also see how the point of making it interesting on August 5th was that we beat the Twins when it actually counted a great deal?

 

Because nobody really cares about beating the Twins under this year's circumstances? I mean let's say you're 100% correct. Who cares? What, have we solved the Twins now? You're forever scraping and clawing and trying to find something to be positive about. And that's fine. But don't be surprised when nobody is really feeling you. Most are not going to look back at this season and say to themselves, "Well, we're sitting at home once again this October. But hey, we've figured out the Twins!"

[fathom]

When are people going to finally admit that Detroit going 19-7 over their last 26, even besides the sweep, might have SOMETHING to do with the fact that our season is over?

 

For me, it's the fact the Tigers are the better team, and they made some really solid acquisitions the last few months that added even more to their insane lineup depth and solidified their starting pitching. That has more to do with the fact the season is over, and to be honest, I think the Tigers might have possibly won the division even with Dunn/Rios having solid seasons.

[caulfield12]

What is with the straw man responses?

 

Yes, we made it interesting on August 5th, 6th and 7th, against a Minnesota team we had not beaten, IN Minnesota.

Yes, we are done before labor day.

 

Do you see how those two things are not mutually exclusive?

Do you also see how the point of making it interesting on August 5th was that we beat the Twins when it actually counted a great deal?

 

 

But according to the 11-22 start, it was impossible to win the division and nearly impossible to finish over .500, so skeptical fans were never buying into the fact that they were "really" back into the race, even at 3 games back for the very briefest period of time.

[Greg Hibbard]

Because nobody really cares about beating the Twins under this year's circumstances? I mean let's say you're 100% correct. Who cares? What, have we solved the Twins now? You're forever scraping and clawing and trying to find something to be positive about. And that's fine. But don't be surprised when nobody is really feeling you. Most are not going to look back at this season and say to themselves, "Well, we're sitting at home once again this October. But hey, we've figured out the Twins!"

 

Your entire argument this thread has been "we haven't beaten the Twins when it has been meaningful".

 

This is exactly what I have attempted to respond to.

 

In summation, I have just argued that there was a meaningful series that we not only beat Minnesota in, but we swept them, and on the road to boot.

 

I understand this may not be meaningful to most people. It appears as though the only thing that is meaningful is clear division winner and advancement in the playoffs.

 

Nevertheless, with the luck/lack of skill we have had against Minnesota directly, effectively ending their potential fairy-tale chance of a comeback in 2011 was pretty f***ing meaningful to me on August 5th, 6th and 7th.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Greg Hibbard

[Greg Hibbard]

But according to the 11-22 start, it was impossible to win the division and nearly impossible to finish over .500, so skeptical fans were never buying into the fact that they were "really" back into the race, even at 3 games back for the very briefest period of time.

 

It was impossible to win the division unless Detroit and everyone else did not finish more than a handful of games over .500. A rather important and realistic caveat that was in play until about 1 week ago.

[Kyyle23]

Your entire argument this thread has been "we haven't beaten the Twins when it has been meaningful".

 

This is exactly what I have attempted to respond to.

 

In summation, I have just argued that there was a meaningful series that we not only beat Minnesota in, but we swept them, and on the road to boot.

 

I understand this may not be meaningful to most people. It appears as though the only thing that is meaningful is clear division winner and advancement in the playoffs.

 

Nevertheless, with the luck/lack of skill we have had against Minnesota directly, effectively ending their potential fairy-tale chance of a comeback in 2011 was pretty f***ing meaningful to me on August 5th, 6th and 7th.

 

 

This is really just a wasted effort. J4L will continue to change his argument, so dont bother