Dick Allen Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (sunofgold @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 10:15 PM) Yes, we are beating the Injuns. Remember their hot start to the season. They have totally gone down since then. I don't know what they are going to be like next year. Probably not that great to average. We are going to have a chance in 2012. Just hope that everybody picks the Tiggs to win the division and that will put less pressure on us. The Indians really suck and have a ton of injuries. It didn't take a baseball genius to come to the conclusion they would fall back to earth. The Sox should be dominating the AL Central. Hopefully Illich will spend some Tiger money on a couple of Adam Dunn types this coming offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 08:13 PM) So Morel should be a more disciplined Mike Schmidt. Awesome. Just pointing out rookies don't always set the world on fire. Leave it to some of you guys to whine about a guy still learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 10:16 PM) Mike Schmidt should have been benches and replaced in his 2nd year. How could you possibly count on a guy like that? I'm sold. Mike Schmidt started slow, so Morel is obviously going to have a better career than he did. The Sox are set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 04:17 AM) Just pointing out rookies don't always set the world on fire. Leave it to some of you guys to whine about a guy still learning. No Schmidt had 80 homers and walks combined in his rookie year? Morel had 10 as of a week ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I'm hoping that he wisely decided to be a contact guy as he learned, and then later decided to take a more aggressive approach. It could all be a coincidence though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunofgold Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 09:17 PM) The Indians really suck and have a ton of injuries. It didn't take a baseball genius to come to the conclusion they would fall back to earth. The Sox should be dominating the AL Central. Hopefully Illich will spend some Tiger money on a couple of Adam Dunn types this coming offseason. Early predictions: White Sox and Tiggs should be competing for 2012 AL Central Division title. PK approaching 30 HRs and 100 Rbis..Amazing season b/c he has had very little protection behind in the lineup the whole year. Imagine if Rios and Dunn hit like they should have hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I personally have faith in Morel going forward. I think the power will be there in his sophomore year. I've held off on attacking him this year because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 11:19 PM) I'm sold. Mike Schmidt started slow, so Morel is obviously going to have a better career than he did. The Sox are set. If you guys can't get this concept then you're going to hate rebuilding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 10:17 PM) Just pointing out rookies don't always set the world on fire. Leave it to some of you guys to whine about a guy still learning. I'm not whining, but for every HOFer you mention that started out slow, I could name 1000 guys that started out slow and didn't get much better, and another 1000 who started better but weren't nearly as good. Robin Ventura started out pretty slowly. His offensive numbers his rookie year were quite similiar to Morel's. He was a little younger. But you can't get too excited about a 2 homer game in this situation and ignore the lack of power the other 140 games. Maybe he develops, maybe he doesn't. The odds are stacked against him having a Mike Schimidt or Robin Ventura career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 10:22 PM) If you guys can't get this concept then you're going to hate rebuilding. I'm totally against rebuilding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 11:22 PM) I'm not whining, but for every HOFer you mention that started out slow, I could name 1000 guys that started out slow and didn't get much better, and another 1000 who started better but weren't nearly as good. Robin Ventura started out pretty slowly. His offensive numbers his rookie year were quite similiar to Morel's. He was a little younger. But you can't get too excited about a 2 homer game in this situation and ignore the lack of power the other 140 games. Maybe he develops, maybe he doesn't. The odds are stacked against him having a Mike Schimidt or Robin Ventura career. Of course he's not likely to be an all star, but the fact that people are totally unwilling to give him the time he needs to develop has just been intolerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 11:23 PM) I'm totally against rebuilding. Then you need to support kw and maybe Ozzie staying, because the first thing a new GM is going to do is strip things down and start plugging in kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 10:25 PM) Then you need to support kw and maybe Ozzie staying, because the first thing a new GM is going to do is strip things down and start plugging in kids. Not really. The AL Central is ripe for the taking. A new GM is going to want to win. Why would he want to play KW's minor leaguers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 11:27 PM) Not really. The AL Central is ripe for the taking. A new GM is going to want to win. Why would he want to play KW's minor leaguers? A new GM and manager will not have the same trust and salary freedom that kw has had. You had to know that. The only way a new management team will compete next year is off Kennys youth. And the AL central ought to be better next year than this. ESP with the tigers having money to spend again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 10:30 PM) A new GM and manager will not have the same trust and salary freedom that kw has had. You had to know that. The only way a new management team will compete next year is off Kennys youth. And the AL central ought to be better next year than this. ESP with the tigers having money to spend again. I disagree. Have you ever read JR's quotes about rebuilding? He isn't going to youth movement unless they are all stud can't miss prospects anytime soon. I think Minnesota is going to suck for a while. KC will suck until they show they don't. The Indians smoke and mirrors act is history. Detroit may be OK but they are far from a juggernaut and sometimes having money to spend is a curse. If Verlander ever went down, they would be screwed. Edited September 9, 2011 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 What al central team will lose parts this offseason? Twins, they lose injured guys. Tigers lose overpaid guys. Indians lose nothing, royals get a year to grow. White sox could lose Buehrle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 08:21 PM) I personally have faith in Morel going forward. I think the power will be there in his sophomore year. I've held off on attacking him this year because of that. At least you get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 11:32 PM) I disagree. Have you ever read JR's quotes about rebuilding? He isn't going to youth movement unless they are all stud can't miss prospects anytime soon. Do you really think he'll risk $120 million again on this roster with half that in the awful 3? Even though you think es cheap you can't believe that's a good investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 If you made a list of the top 25 Sox problems this year Morel would be about 20th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 10:36 PM) If you made a list of the top 25 Sox problems this year Morel would be about 20th. What happened to your shortchanging post when you shortchanged Mike Schmidt? That was hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) Since you are making arbitrary stats that have little to no meaning in actual production. - here is another: Walks + HR - Ks = better career Schmidt: -56 Morel: -29 Brent wins! HOF first ballot. Best 3B all time. I'm kidding of course, but why not look at something like OPS which is more agreed upon. Brent is obviously lagging there, (.697 v .634) but not by a huge amount. Schmidt ended up with a career OPS .200 points higher than that. If brent can improve his ops by even half that, .100, while providing the plus defense he is quite capable of, he will have a very solid career. I think its more likely than it is unlikely. Edited September 9, 2011 by MAX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 10:36 PM) Do you really think he'll risk $120 million again on this roster with half that in the awful 3? Even though you think es cheap you can't believe that's a good investment. Lillibridge is out for the season. He's stuck with a big payroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (MAX @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 10:39 PM) Since you are making arbitrary stats that have little to no meaning in actual production. - here is another: Walks + HR - Ks = better career Schmidt: -56 Morel: -29 Brent wins! HOF first ballot. Best 3B all time. I'm kidding of course, but why not look at something like OPS which is more agreed upon. Brent is obviously lagging there, (.697 v .634) but not by a huge amount. Schmidt ended up with a career OPS .200 points higher than that. If brent can improve his ops by even half that, .100, while providing the plus defense he is quite capable of, he will have a very solid career. I think its more likely than it is unlikely. I think even Morel's biggest fans would think comparing Brent with Mike Schmidt is beyond ridiculous. At least Morel has been useful defensively, so the Sox can at least buy some time for development. If he had Josh Field's glove, his time may have come and gone by now. Edited September 9, 2011 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 10:41 PM) I think even Morel's biggest fans would think comparing Brent with Mike Schmidt is beyond ridiculous. It is. I am just trying to say that I think it is likely that he will improve his OPS by at least .100 points and be a cheap and valuable asset to the team for the next 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 8, 2011 -> 08:37 PM) What happened to your shortchanging post when you shortchanged Mike Schmidt? That was hilarious. Yea it was . Got the RBI mixed up with the walks but the fact remains he still shortchanged Morel. I double checked and saw I was wrong. More than some of you can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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