CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) I like Brent Morel. I make no bones about that. I have a soft spot for good defensive players and think defense is underrated especially when your team has some of the worst offensive regulars in all of MLB. With the budgetary constraints of the Sox I think he has earned another shot next year. To be fair I'll give the good and bad facts. Among AL hitters with at least 350 plate appearances, Morel has the fifth-worst total of batting runs above average. That's bad enough, but look who's there with him. 1. Alex Rios: -26.4 2. Adam Dunn: -19.4 3. Alcides Escobar: -19.4 4. Aaron Hill: -17.4 5. Brent Morel: -16.5 6. Gordon Beckham: -16.5 Out of the 4 Sox on that list Morel is a lot closer to his projected numbers than any of the other 3. The other 3 have been huge disappointments whereas Morel is a slight disappointment. Tallest midget yea I know but he certainly is not one of the Sox main problems. 3rd base is not the power position it once was considered to be. In the most recent four seasons, third basemen have only out-slugged second basemen by .15. That’s less than half what it was a decade ago. In 2011, second basemen are out-slugging third basemen by a couple points. If you sort by wOBA CF hitting has been much better across the board than 3B or 2B, which have been roughly equal this year. So both CF and 2nd base ( not traditional power positions ) are better than the current crop of 3rd basemen, speaking of which, if you want the Sox to upgrade at 3rd here is a list of 3rd base free agents. Wilson Betemit KC Casey Blake LAD Eric Chavez NYY Mark DeRosa SF Greg Dobbs PHI Edwin Encarnacion TOR Wes Helms FLA Melvin Mora ARI Aramis Ramirez CHC Miguel Tejada SF Omar Vizquel CWS Not a good list at all . Ramirez is the only one truly much better than Morel but will cost a fortune so not very likely for a team like the Sox who already have a lot of money committed to too many guys. Morel post ASB is .279/.319/.434 OPS .753 or pretty much right in line or better than what most have expected from him since the beginning of the year. IF Morel can even make a slight improvement on those numbers it should put him in the middle of the pack of ML 3rd basemen offensively . Throw in his D and he's now a very solid middle of the pack guy. Morel has shown a tendency to improve at each level of pro ball that he has been. I expect that to continue. Who really knows what the Sox told him at the beginning of the year. Maybe just "play good D concentrate on hitting the ball up the middle and the opposite way, move the runners over , do the little things and let the big guys do their thing." Since the big guys haven't done their thing Morel's power struggles and OBP have been magnified in many of our eyes. Given the dearth of quality 3rd basemen in MLB and the Sox budgetary problems I think Morel has easily earned another shot next year. I got much of this information via the article and comments section here http://www.southsidesox.com/2011/9/7/24096...-of-brent-morel Edited September 9, 2011 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetkincaid Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 09:44 AM) Among AL hitters with at least 350 plate appearances, Morel has the fifth-worst total of batting runs above average. That's bad enough, but look who's there with him. 1. Alex Rios: -26.4 2. Adam Dunn: -19.4 3. Alcides Escobar: -19.4 4. Aaron Hill: -17.4 5. Brent Morel: -16.5 6. Gordon Beckham: -16.5 Good Lord this is scary. I'm surprised the Sox are above .500. I don't if the Sox can afford to have Morel in the line up with the rest of these guys. Edited September 9, 2011 by Chet Kincaid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 08:00 AM) Good Lord this is scary. I'm surprised the Sox are above .500. I don't if the Sox can afford to have Morel in the line up with the rest of these guys. Since you used the word "afford" Morel makes $400,000 the 1st 2 guys on the list make a combined $24 million this year and $81 million left on their contracts through 2014. The bigger question is can the Sox not afford to keep him in the lineup ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I know I am in the patient minority here, but I have no problem with the progress that Brent is making. I don't see it as unusual that a guy takes a while to learn to hit at the major league level. Even so he has been pretty well at .250 or .260 all year long. If the guys who were around him had done their jobs, his numbers wouldn't be as big of a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) Brent Morel hasn't "earned" anything. He's been well below average offensively (though he's produced well the last week or so) even in a year in which 3B production is down all over baseball. He'll get another shot next year. Not because he deserves it. But because there's nobody that's a threat to him. Certainly nothing in our minor league system. And the only two free agents worth a damn are Ramirez, and we're certainly not going to make a play for him, and Edwin Encarnacion, who's had a very solid year as a cheap FA signing in Toronto. The Blue Jays have a club option on EE. I imagine they'll bring him back. Edited September 9, 2011 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 08:33 AM) Brent Morel hasn't "earned" anything. He's been well below average offensively (though he's produced well the last week or so) even in a year in which 3B production is down all over baseball. He'll get another shot next year. Not because he deserves it. But because there's nobody that's a threat to him. Certainly nothing in our minor league system. And the only two free agents worth a damn are Ramirez, and we're certainly not going to make a play for him, and Edwin Encarnacion, who's had a very solid year as a cheap FA signing in Toronto. The Blue Jays have a club option on EE. I imagine they'll bring him back. My points exactly except I think he has earned it if you consider defense which you did not. A few weeks ago when he had 1 HR I predicted in a post he would finish with 5. He now has 5 .His post ASB numbers are decent so I would give him more than the last week or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 10:00 AM) Good Lord this is scary. I'm surprised the Sox are above .500. I don't if the Sox can afford to have Morel in the line up with the rest of these guys. and walker keeps his job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) I think 2011 and Morel should be considered a learning year. He sure has come around this second half and with young players you have to be patient. I am guessing 2012 will be better as he improves and hopefully so do some of our other players. Edited September 9, 2011 by elrockinMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 10:52 AM) My points exactly except I think he has earned it if you consider defense which you did not. A few weeks ago when he had 1 HR I predicted in a post he would finish with 5. He now has 5 .His post ASB numbers are decent so I would give him more than the last week or so. He could be Brooks Robinson defensively. His offensive production has to dramatically improve to justify him playing every day. Does he have to be Longoria, Wright or Zimmerman? Of course not. Does he have to be Adrian Beltre? No. But Ty Wiggington/Adam Kennedy-like production will not suffice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 08:57 AM) He could be Brooks Robinson defensively. His offensive production has to dramatically improve to justify him playing every day. Does he have to be Longoria, Wright or Zimmerman? Of course not. Does he have to be Adrian Beltre? No. But Ty Wiggington/Adam Kennedy-like production will not suffice. I just updated his post ASB numbers .279/.319/.434 OPS .753 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 04:07 PM) I just updated his post ASB numbers .279/.319/.434 OPS .753 . And what were those numbers like a week ago when people were saying he needs to show improvement the rest of the year to lock up his spot for next season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 11:07 AM) I just updated his post ASB numbers .279/.319/.434 OPS .753 . Those numbers would be fine over the course of a full season. Great, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Crede was even worse when he 1st came up. Develop talent. It takes some time. It's been said ad nausem but if Beckham, Rios and Dunn had not sucked it so f'n hard this season this would be an appreciation thread for his defense, at the very least. Offensively who knows, he might have been far more relaxed and productive, but when his contribution became desperately needed he was unable to deliver. Pressure. So at least he's had to deal with that at MLB level. He's got a full year in the bigs under his belt. This is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 09:08 AM) And what were those numbers like a week ago when people were saying he needs to show improvement the rest of the year to lock up his spot for next season? You tell me. He's improving what more do you want from him ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 You pretty much have to stick with Morel since we're most likely going to have a smaller payroll next year with a dip in ticket sales. They're not going to try signing anyone to play the position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 09:10 AM) Those numbers would be fine over the course of a full season. Great, actually. I thought so too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 11:14 AM) You tell me. He's improving what more do you want from him ? Just like Beckham improved the second-half of last year. What do I want from him? Carry this into the BEGINNING of next season. Not 4 months into the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 On a side note. I read that if Flowers had got down the sac bunt last night Ozzie would've pinch hit for Morel with AJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 11:12 AM) Crede was even worse when he 1st came up. Develop talent. It takes some time. It's been said ad nausem but if Beckham, Rios and Dunn had not sucked it so f'n hard this season this would be an appreciation thread for his defense, at the very least. Offensively who knows, he might have been far more relaxed and productive, but when his contribution became desperately needed he was unable to deliver. Pressure. So at least he's had to deal with that at MLB level. He's got a full year in the bigs under his belt. This is good. And if we go young, expect a lot more "Brent Morel" style situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetkincaid Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 10:19 AM) Since you used the word "afford" Morel makes $400,000 the 1st 2 guys on the list make a combined $24 million this year and $81 million left on their contracts through 2014. The bigger question is can the Sox not afford to keep him in the lineup ? Maybe I'm using the wrong word. My fault. I don't mean they can't afford his salary, but they can't afford to have another whole in the line up. It would be easier to hide a guy while he learns how to hit if the Sox didn't have the other holes in the line up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I'm a Morel fan, always have been. The bat has come around a bit as noted. I'd give him another season in hopes of further improvement, especially since I don't think next year's team will be very competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 09:17 AM) Just like Beckham improved the second-half of last year. What do I want from him? Carry this into the BEGINNING of next season. Not 4 months into the season. We'll see what happens. I think he has his head on straight and we won't see a Beckham like drop off but improvement is certainly much better than regression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 04:18 PM) And if we go young, expect a lot more "Brent Morel" style situations. And those bumps in the road are 100 times more acceptable if you're not going "all in" for the season and focusing instead on long-term development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 04:14 PM) You tell me. He's improving what more do you want from him ? You're arguing against no one right now it seems. Go back about 10 days ago, and you'll see balta (I believe) and myself and Cangelosi talking about how the Sox media were starting to rip on Morel for his "sissy" approach at the plate. Now, we're seeing the actual change in his batting philosophy that many of us said wanted to see...and it's very nice to see the results follow. I will add that it's pretty disgusting to see it take this long for Morel to make the changes with Walker not being able to break through to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 09:18 AM) Maybe I'm using the wrong word. My fault. I don't mean they can't afford his salary, but they can't afford to have another whole in the line up. It would be easier to hide a guy while he learns how to hit if the Sox didn't have the other holes in the line up. No problem I was using the word afford in both ways. With all the holes he's making nothing compared to the other holes. Dun and Rios are HUGE HUGE HUGE problems for the Sox compared to Morel both offensively and money wise. Edited September 9, 2011 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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