Marty34 Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 02:42 PM) Then in 3-4 years when all those pitching prospects come around, we'll have to trade them to replenish out somehow even more horrific offense. No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 02:42 PM) If you are focused on 3-4 years down the road, you are still going to be more worried about the offense. No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 02:34 PM) In terms of what needs to be fixed with this team, it is twisted to think that the pitching years down the road is anywhere near the top of the list right now. I actually like the way he's thinking. And I hope whoever supersedes KW as GM is of that exact mindset. We've done the 'Screw the future, let go for it' thing for the last 6 years with one playoff win and a whole lotta bank spent to show for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 03:42 PM) If you are focused on 3-4 years down the road, you are still going to be more worried about the offense. "In the long run, we're all dead." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 02:45 PM) I actually like the way he's thinking. And I hope whoever supersedes KW as GM is of that exact mindset. We've done the 'Screw the future, let go for it' thing for the last 6 years with one playoff win and a whole lotta bank spent to show for it. Like I said, even if you are of that thought process, we have much more pitching than we do position players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 02:43 PM) No. Intriguing reply, really stirring conversion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 03:45 PM) No. Right now, if you're looking past 2013, Paul Konerko has departed this offense unless he's reupped again. That's 2 years away. Dude's not a spring chicken anyway. Morel, Flowers, Beckham, Viciedo, and De Aza can still be under team control then, along with (Shudder) Dunn and Rios. Alexei is also under contract, just more expensive. If all of those guys develop to their potential...then you're right, the offense won't be much of a concern. That's a number of guys who can give solid production and hopefully a 25 year old monster. Even if we don't get much from the Walker/Mitchell picks, that's 5 spots filled with guys who are just beginning to hit their arb years. 1b would be the only spot where we'd really be missing a guy, and the money would be there to do that. The big if there though is we need some development from the young guys and performance from Dunn and Rios. Morel doing what he is doing now is very encouraging. Beckham has not been encouraging at all, he's almost the key guy in that setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 02:48 PM) Like I said, even if you are of that thought process, we have much more pitching than we do position players. That's assuming Sale can hang as a starter and at least one of Humber/Stewart can prove to be at least a rotation back-end. Mark is a FA. Danks will be a FA. Peavy is hopefully gone after 2012. That leaves Floyd for 2013 and nothing in the pipeline. I can see where Marty is coming from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 03:57 PM) That's assuming Sale can hang as a starter and at least one of Humber/Stewart can prove to be at least a rotation back-end. Mark is a FA. Danks will be a FA. Peavy is hopefully gone after 2012. That leaves Floyd for 2013 and nothing in the pipeline. I can see where Marty is coming from. Floyd, Humber, Stewart, and Sale is a 4 man rotation under team control for 2 more seasons, and pretty cheap to boot. Buehrle added in would mean that we still had a fairly affordable rotation under team control for that whole time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 02:48 PM) Like I said, even if you are of that thought process, we have much more pitching than we do position players. And we are .500. The point is to get as much of the pitching staff together as you can while waiting out the albatross contracts to come off the books. Once they come off the books you can fill in the position players. Hopefully, by that time Viciedo, Beckham, and Morel have firmly established themselves as regulars. Look, the Sox are in the worst position you can be as a team. Mediocre and really expensive. There are no clear-cut ideas that will get us out of this mess. I think this is the best way to go though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 02:57 PM) That's assuming Sale can hang as a starter and at least one of Humber/Stewart can prove to be at least a rotation back-end. Mark is a FA. Danks will be a FA. Peavy is hopefully gone after 2012. That leaves Floyd for 2013 and nothing in the pipeline. I can see where Marty is coming from. And the offense has way more question than that, especially if you assume a low case scenario like you did for pitching. Konerko gone, AJ gone, Flowers and Dunn K machines. Rios lazy and uncaring. Beckham struggling, Ramirez plateaued. Morel no power etc, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 03:02 PM) And the offense has way more question than that, especially if you assume a low case scenario like you did for pitching. Konerko gone, AJ gone, Flowers and Dunn K machines. Rios lazy and uncaring. Beckham struggling, Ramirez plateaued. Morel no power etc, etc. The difference here is that we're stuck with Dunn, Rios and Konerko. Flowers/Morel have no trade value. You couldn't get a can of SPAM for Beckham right now. At least with a couple of our pitchers you could get some good value for them before it's too late. Oh, and I'm of the thought process that if we're trading pitching we need to get pitching in return. Edited September 13, 2011 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 04:02 PM) And the offense has way more question than that, especially if you assume a low case scenario like you did for pitching. Konerko gone, AJ gone, Flowers and Dunn K machines. Rios lazy and uncaring. Beckham struggling, Ramirez plateaued. Morel no power etc, etc. Here's a different way to look at it. Both of these are likely to change, but if we're trying to say whihc side of the ball is in worse shape, I like it. The pitching staff in 2013 is relying on 3 guys who are either young or somewhat unproven (Humber, Sale, Stewart). The offense in 2013 is relying on 5 guys who are either young or somewhat unproven (Viciedo, De Aza, Morel, Beckham, Flowers) Both sides have a lot of unproven guys and need of development, but both sides have a fair amount of talent as well. There's what, 3 first round picks in there and a guy who got $10 million+ coming out of Cuba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 04:10 PM) The difference here is that we're stuck with Dunn, Rios and Konerko. Flowers/Morel have no trade value. You couldn't get a can of SPAM for Beckham right now. At least with a couple of our pitchers you could get some good value for them before it's too late. I bet you that you could get something decent for Morel right now. He's a legit rookie and he hit .273 with a .327 OBP and a .783 OPS in the 2nd half this year and he plays good defense. That's starting to establish himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 03:10 PM) The difference here is that we're stuck with Dunn, Rios and Konerko. Flowers/Morel have no trade value. You couldn't get a can of SPAM for Beckham right now. At least with a couple of our pitchers you could get some good value for them before it's too late. Oh, and I'm of the thought process that if we're trading pitching we need to get pitching in return. Dealing them is very different than what you will have in the future. The whole assumption of this is what we will have in a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 02:03 PM) I think it's incredibly easy after a disappointing season to see the wheels falling off in all directions. Really, the difference between a 75 game winner and a 90 game winner is sometimes 1-2 players. I'm confident the lineup and staff have enough major pieces to be effective next year, provided they perform, provided that we have new leadership, and provided we obtain some better complimentary pieces. This I can certainly agree with, especially the bold part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 02:07 PM) Well, Hudson for Jackson was a short-sighted move if I've ever seen one. Oy, imagine how much better we'd look going forward if that trade hadn't been made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 04:24 PM) Oy, imagine how much better we'd look going forward if that trade hadn't been made. I mean...I get it, Hudson doing what he did for us this year would have really made up for a lot...and maybe spending that $8 million might have helped... But when you add the phrase "going forward"...I think Zach Stewart will be a legitimately valuable piece for us. Very few people looked at Hudson and said "This guy is the next Verlander". He can be an upper part of a rotation pitcher, but he's not going to be the best ever. Stewart still is a work in progress...but he has legitimate upper part of a rotation ability. Sinkerballer who also can be effective with his offspeed stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 03:31 PM) I mean...I get it, Hudson doing what he did for us this year would have really made up for a lot...and maybe spending that $8 million might have helped... But when you add the phrase "going forward"...I think Zach Stewart will be a legitimately valuable piece for us. Very few people looked at Hudson and said "This guy is the next Verlander". He can be an upper part of a rotation pitcher, but he's not going to be the best ever. Stewart still is a work in progress...but he has legitimate upper part of a rotation ability. Sinkerballer who also can be effective with his offspeed stuff. That's yet to be seen, though. We are seeing Hudson live up to his potential as we speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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