Cooper and/or Ozzie status could affect MB coming back next year

[BigSqwert]

You and Marty are the same person, just like Greg and elrockinMT are too. It's really sad that one guy has to log out of one account just to get into a new one to make it look like someone agrees with his s***ty arguments.

[southsider2k5]

 

Well to be fair, me, you, Balta, fathom, jenks, and strangesox are all accounts I made up as well. So no one would suspect anything when it came time to dominate an argument, I use them to argue with each other over things like politics and game threads, that way when it came to own a guy who was just blowing my arguments away, I could do so. Next up, trading at UBS and funding social security.

[Balta1701]

Well to be fair, me, you, Balta, fathom, jenks, and strangesox are all accounts I made up as well. So no one would suspect anything when it came time to dominate an argument, I use them to argue with each other over things like politics and game threads, that way when it came to own a guy who was just blowing my arguments away, I could do so. Next up, trading at UBS and funding social security.

Wow, you're incredibly determined to argue with yourself about politics. There's no way this is healthy. Precious. Preeecious.

[Quin]

Looks like it's you, Victory, greg, elrockin, Melissa, and Soil against the world. Good luck with that group.

 

Throw my brother in there as well.

 

He said Rios has been mainly a defensive replacement because Ozzie knows what he's doing.

 

Team Blow Ozzie is way worse than Team Jacob/Edward/Mythical Creature Girls Want to f*** In High School

[Pants Rowland]

The funny part is that for the first time you used numbers, you were still wrong. Dunn hit .136 and .145 during that time respectively. So in his worst months by far, Lillibridge was still 84 and 45 points better, with better power numbers including the factor of way less ABs.

 

I was just impressed he finally actually cited some statistics. I did not bother to check their validity but it was nice to see him try to use facts to support his argument.

 

I just read the entire day of this thread for entertainment purposes and am pretty convinced he is a member of the Guillen family. Not Ozzie, but one of the kids. Somewhat educated but still a high level of ignorance instilled by his father over the years. Also has no self awareness or ability to recognize when to cut his losses. Then proudly beats his chest and declares victory when everyone gives up in exasperation.

 

Lots of fun. Thanks for the laughs.

[southsider2k5]

Wow, you're incredibly determined to argue with yourself about politics. There's no way this is healthy. Precious. Preeecious.

 

or am I? hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahaha

[caulfield12]

What the hell is going on here?

 

With the suspicious comments about SoxTalk from Ozney (I think it was him) and that CSN column...one almost is starting to believe that it has to be someone with the Guillen family, Cowley's family, someone who's stubbornly recalcitrant in their Guillen Knee Jerk Defense.

 

The fact of that matter is that nobody could have done worse than Dunn over that time frame.

 

Certainly not Lillibridge. There are plenty of others....DeAza (when he wasn't playing for Rios), Viciedo, heck, arguably Vizquel, Kuhn and Milledge, to name just a few. Or Flowers, when AJ wasn't playing.

 

None of those aforementioned scenarios are empirically-refutable...just as there will be some arguing that Dunn has now been "ruined for life" because he was forced by KW to the bench down the stretch, using Rongey's "you can never sit your way out of a slump" argument.

 

There are so many arguments going back and forth it makes your head spin.

 

Does it really matter who's to blame, 75%/25% or 50/50 or "it's all Reinsdorf's fault."

 

KW backed himself into the uncomfortable position of "doubling down" and JR obviously signed off on it. The entire organization needs to be torn apart (yes, that means Brooks Boyer and Rongey too) with the only two left standing potentially Hahn and Don Cooper.

 

I really think Sox fans are going to go bananas if they have to listen to an entire offseason and then April of Dunn/Rios/Beckham excuses/explanations. Or how Jake Peavy will pitch like the Cy Young winner he formerly was after another offseason of recovery, etc.

 

The whole situation is toxic. KW and Ozzie both need to be shown the door.

 

Who knows, maybe Epstein will be available if Boston collapses. Then again, he wouldn't have the money or the organizational imperative to build a farm system (especially international signings), so I'm not sure why he would ever leave Boston unless he was fired or JR offered an open checkbook, which just doesn't seem to jive with the current economic situation the White Sox are facing moving forward.

Edited September 20, 2011 by caulfield12

[VictoryMC98]

The funny part is that for the first time you used numbers, you were still wrong. Dunn hit .136 and .145 during that time respectively. So in his worst months by far, Lillibridge was still 84 and 45 points better, with better power numbers including the factor of way less ABs.

 

Yep, and now.. it sounds great.. Back in June..

 

Ozzie: Here I am replacing A guy who is barley hitting his weight, who has a track record of hitting.. With this other guy who is barely hitting his weight and failed as a starter...

 

I'm so sure you are leading the charge on Sept 19th to keep him then and tell us what a wonderful manager he is there... Keep trying, but I aint buying what you are trying to be sellin.

 

[VictoryMC98]

What the hell is going on here?

 

With the suspicious comments about SoxTalk from Ozney (I think it was him) and that CSN column...one almost is starting to believe that it has to be someone with the Guillen family, Cowley's family, someone who's stubbornly recalcitrant in their Guillen Knee Jerk Defense.

 

The fact of that matter is that nobody could have done worse than Dunn over that time frame.

 

Certainly not Lillibridge. There are plenty of others....DeAza (when he wasn't playing for Rios), Viciedo, heck, arguably Vizquel, Kuhn and Milledge, to name just a few. Or Flowers, when AJ wasn't playing.

 

None of those aforementioned scenarios are empirically-refutable...just as there will be some arguing that Dunn has now been "ruined for life" because he was forced by KW to the bench down the stretch, using Rongey's "you can never sit your way out of a slump" argument.

 

There are so many arguments going back and forth it makes your head spin.

 

Does it really matter who's to blame, 75%/25% or 50/50 or "it's all Reinsdorf's fault."

 

KW backed himself into the uncomfortable position of "doubling down" and JR obviously signed off on it. The entire organization needs to be torn apart (yes, that means Brooks Boyer and Rongey too) with the only two left standing potentially Hahn and Don Cooper.

 

I really think Sox fans are going to go bananas if they have to listen to an entire offseason and then April of Dunn/Rios/Beckham excuses/explanations. Or how Jake Peavy will pitch like the Cy Young winner he formerly was after another offseason of recovery, etc.

 

The whole situation is toxic. KW and Ozzie both need to be shown the door.

 

Who knows, maybe Epstein will be available if Boston collapses. Then again, he wouldn't have the money or the organizational imperative to build a farm system (especially international signings), so I'm not sure why he would ever leave Boston unless he was fired or JR offered an open checkbook, which just doesn't seem to jive with the current economic situation the White Sox are facing moving forward.

 

a voice of reason in this insane place.. Nicely done.. Nicely done...

 

The other name I would love to see.. Billy Beane, just think if he had cash what he might be able to do. I don't know enough about the up and coming GMs out there to throw their name in the hat..

 

My only problem.. I don't know if Hahn is a KW right hand man, or just doing his job to save it.. ( you know what I mean) But, I agree this organization needs a reboot from the top down.. Does JR have the business sense to do what is right for the organization long term?

 

[caulfield12]

a voice of reason in this insane place.. Nicely done.. Nicely done...

 

The other name I would love to see.. Billy Beane, just think if he had cash what he might be able to do. I don't know enough about the up and coming GMs out there to throw their name in the hat..

 

My only problem.. I don't know if Hahn is a KW right hand man, or just doing his job to save it.. ( you know what I mean) But, I agree this organization needs a reboot from the top down.. Does JR have the business sense to do what is right for the organization long term?

 

 

Before the All-Star Break, Lillibridge was hitting .256 with an 816 OPS.

 

He had already cooled off a little bit after his hot start when Guillen started playing him more and more sporadically.

 

 

As far as Beane goes, what would the Oakland A's have been without 1) Mulder/Zito/Hudson/Harden and 2) steroids for Giambi/Chavez/Tejada?

 

Terry Ryan of the Twins was/is a much better general manager. He just doesn't have the advantage of a PR machine, the sabremetrics world, DePodesta and JP Ricciardi, etc.

 

JR doesn't have so many years left. He knows how important this decision is...and that bringing KW and Guillen both back will just delay the inevitable falling out and worsen the situation that much more than it already is.

 

 

[Soxfest]

Does it really matter who's to blame, 75%/25% or 50/50 or "it's all Reinsdorf's fault."

The whole situation is toxic. KW and Ozzie both need to be shown the door.

Agree only thing I would add is it is way past time JR sells the team. Shelf life for all 3 is way past it's due date!

Edited September 20, 2011 by Soxfest

[Jordan4life_2007]

Agree only thing I would add is it is way past time JR sells the team. Shelf life for all 3 is way past it's due date!

 

You've been outstanding this year, Soxfest. I used to think you were a weirdo. lol.

[southsider2k5]

What the hell is going on here?

 

With the suspicious comments about SoxTalk from Ozney (I think it was him) and that CSN column...one almost is starting to believe that it has to be someone with the Guillen family, Cowley's family, someone who's stubbornly recalcitrant in their Guillen Knee Jerk Defense.

 

The fact of that matter is that nobody could have done worse than Dunn over that time frame.

 

Certainly not Lillibridge. There are plenty of others....DeAza (when he wasn't playing for Rios), Viciedo, heck, arguably Vizquel, Kuhn and Milledge, to name just a few. Or Flowers, when AJ wasn't playing.

 

None of those aforementioned scenarios are empirically-refutable...just as there will be some arguing that Dunn has now been "ruined for life" because he was forced by KW to the bench down the stretch, using Rongey's "you can never sit your way out of a slump" argument.

 

There are so many arguments going back and forth it makes your head spin.

 

Does it really matter who's to blame, 75%/25% or 50/50 or "it's all Reinsdorf's fault."

 

KW backed himself into the uncomfortable position of "doubling down" and JR obviously signed off on it. The entire organization needs to be torn apart (yes, that means Brooks Boyer and Rongey too) with the only two left standing potentially Hahn and Don Cooper.

 

I really think Sox fans are going to go bananas if they have to listen to an entire offseason and then April of Dunn/Rios/Beckham excuses/explanations. Or how Jake Peavy will pitch like the Cy Young winner he formerly was after another offseason of recovery, etc.

 

The whole situation is toxic. KW and Ozzie both need to be shown the door.

 

Who knows, maybe Epstein will be available if Boston collapses. Then again, he wouldn't have the money or the organizational imperative to build a farm system (especially international signings), so I'm not sure why he would ever leave Boston unless he was fired or JR offered an open checkbook, which just doesn't seem to jive with the current economic situation the White Sox are facing moving forward.

 

 

a voice of reason in this insane place.. Nicely done.. Nicely done...

 

The other name I would love to see.. Billy Beane, just think if he had cash what he might be able to do. I don't know enough about the up and coming GMs out there to throw their name in the hat..

 

My only problem.. I don't know if Hahn is a KW right hand man, or just doing his job to save it.. ( you know what I mean) But, I agree this organization needs a reboot from the top down.. Does JR have the business sense to do what is right for the organization long term?

 

Glad to see it only took 30 pages, but you finally came to your senses.

[caulfield12]

We can't get another 12-15 pages out of this topic today?

 

I woke up in China and thought something interesting had actually happened with so many pages....but, alas, it was not to be.

 

 

Getting a compliment from Victory is like having Floyd Mayweather, Randy Moss, Russell Crowe and Greg Walker on my side.

Well, better than bozzie or bossie or whatever his name is, I guess.

 

 

Edited September 20, 2011 by caulfield12

[hogan873]

What makes me laugh (or cry) is that the past 12 or 15 pages were consumed by one argument. That being replacing Dunn with Lillibridge. Now, I didn't take the time to read every single post, but I think I got the idea. I don't remember anyone saying that playing Lillibridge over Dunn saves the season. But that's what the argument became. Well, that and sticking out tongues, name-calling, and inaccurate claims of having won the argument.

 

I don't see how anyone can't see that playing Lillibridge over Dunn gives this team a better chance of winning (and I think that was the original thought). Dunn was almost always a certain strikeout or weak flyball to centerfield when Lillibridge has shown THIS SEASON that he had a better chance of getting a hit, including a HR. Throw out as many numbers as you want and skew them how you wish, but on August 1, how could anyone say, "Well, I'd rather have Dunn up right now with two outs and the bases loaded"?

[Iwritecode]

Glad to see it only took 30 pages, but you finally came to your senses.

 

 

We can't get another 12-15 pages out of this topic today?

 

 

What makes me laugh (or cry) is that the past 12 or 15 pages were consumed by one argument.

 

I only show 6 pages in this thread.

[southsider2k5]

I only show 6 pages in this thread.

 

Well aren't you Mr fancypants

[knightni]

I only show 6 pages in this thread.

I show 23.

[Melissa1334]

Looks like it's you, Victory, greg, elrockin, Melissa, and Soil against the world. Good luck with that group.

 

i dont understand why everyone cant have their own opinoin. we think ozzie isnt the biggest problem others do. so what? everyone is entitled to their own opinion. but since its not what you guys think, we're idiots.

[caulfield12]

What makes me laugh (or cry) is that the past 12 or 15 pages were consumed by one argument. That being replacing Dunn with Lillibridge. Now, I didn't take the time to read every single post, but I think I got the idea. I don't remember anyone saying that playing Lillibridge over Dunn saves the season. But that's what the argument became. Well, that and sticking out tongues, name-calling, and inaccurate claims of having won the argument.

 

I don't see how anyone can't see that playing Lillibridge over Dunn gives this team a better chance of winning (and I think that was the original thought). Dunn was almost always a certain strikeout or weak flyball to centerfield when Lillibridge has shown THIS SEASON that he had a better chance of getting a hit, including a HR. Throw out as many numbers as you want and skew them how you wish, but on August 1, how could anyone say, "Well, I'd rather have Dunn up right now with two outs and the bases loaded"?

 

 

Don't start that argument, lol.

 

Lillibridge has been pretty horrific the last 2-3 months in bases loaded situations.

 

Probably not possible to be WORSE than Dunn, but he's not one of the names that come to mind you'd want up at the dish, either.

[VictoryMC98]

What makes me laugh (or cry) is that the past 12 or 15 pages were consumed by one argument. That being replacing Dunn with Lillibridge. Now, I didn't take the time to read every single post, but I think I got the idea. I don't remember anyone saying that playing Lillibridge over Dunn saves the season. But that's what the argument became. Well, that and sticking out tongues, name-calling, and inaccurate claims of having won the argument.

 

I don't see how anyone can't see that playing Lillibridge over Dunn gives this team a better chance of winning (and I think that was the original thought). Dunn was almost always a certain strikeout or weak flyball to centerfield when Lillibridge has shown THIS SEASON that he had a better chance of getting a hit, including a HR. Throw out as many numbers as you want and skew them how you wish, but on August 1, how could anyone say, "Well, I'd rather have Dunn up right now with two outs and the bases loaded"?

 

Because on August 1st every Baseball person in North American if not the world was still going.. there is no way Dunn doesn't start hitting for starters.

 

2nd, Ozzie benches Dunn for Lilly... 2 problems, 1 the CT comes out how Ozzie hates Kenny.. which who cares.. 2. Lilly just came off a month of hitting about as great as Dunn.. At the time, no one would have said it was a smart move. Now looking back, sure..

 

I personally think Dunn never fully recovered from his surgery, but is either to proud or stupid to admit it. And the off-season he finally recovers has a great 2012.. with or without Ozzie here.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Because on August 1st every Baseball person in North American if not the world was still going.. there is no way Dunn doesn't start hitting for starters.

 

2nd, Ozzie benches Dunn for Lilly... 2 problems, 1 the CT comes out how Ozzie hates Kenny.. which who cares.. 2. Lilly just came off a month of hitting about as great as Dunn.. At the time, no one would have said it was a smart move. Now looking back, sure..

 

I personally think Dunn never fully recovered from his surgery, but is either to proud or stupid to admit it. And the off-season he finally recovers has a great 2012.. with or without Ozzie here.

 

By August 1st? No way. Even national writers were writing articles about how historically bad that Dunn had been. June 1, sure. July 1, maybe. By August 1st no one was really left saying start Dunn, especially in the 4th slot.

 

Break out google and look around.

[VictoryMC98]

By August 1st? No way. Even national writers were writing articles about how historically bad that Dunn had been. June 1, sure. July 1, maybe. By August 1st no one was really left saying start Dunn, especially in the 4th slot.

 

Break out google and look around.

 

You never answered this, just dodged it..

 

Where do you stick him in a lineup, and who gets moved up...?

[Milkman delivers]

i dont understand why everyone cant have their own opinoin. we think ozzie isnt the biggest problem others do. so what? everyone is entitled to their own opinion. but since its not what you guys think, we're idiots.

 

But you agree that he's a problem?

[southsider2k5]

You never answered this, just dodged it..

 

Where do you stick him in a lineup, and who gets moved up...?

 

You really haven't read a damned thing in this thread have you? It's in here. Go back and read it.