Cooper and/or Ozzie status could affect MB coming back next year

[Quin]

You really haven't read a damned thing in this thread have you? It's in here. Go back and read it.

 

You just dodged another question of his.

 

[southsider2k5]

You just dodged another question of his.

 

Next time I won't assume literacy.

[Quin]

Next time I won't assume literacy.

 

Yeah, not everyone you debate with is Balta.

[southsider2k5]

Yeah, not everyone you debate with is Balta.

 

True. Balta can at least put together a real argument based on something other than conjecture.

[Balta1701]

I'M LITERATE!!!!!

[VictoryMC98]

You really haven't read a damned thing in this thread have you? It's in here. Go back and read it.

 

I must have missed it from you dodging... Care to just answer it again... So it saves us both time.

[southsider2k5]

I must have missed it from you dodging... Care to just answer it again... So it saves us both time.

 

So I am supposed to retype it because you are too lazy to go back and read? Get real.

[VictoryMC98]

So I am supposed to retype it because you are too lazy to go back and read? Get real.

 

Because posting a link to the post.. is too much to ask... Got it.

[southsider2k5]

Because posting a link to the post.. is too much to ask... Got it.

 

So go back and find the link, lazy.

[Milkman delivers]

So go back and find the link, lazy.

 

It's on you to post it. Never mind that you already did it. It's on you to post it again.

[Quin]

[StrangeSox]

By August 1st? No way. Even national writers were writing articles about how historically bad that Dunn had been. June 1, sure. July 1, maybe. By August 1st no one was really left saying start Dunn, especially in the 4th slot.

 

Break out google and look around.

jesus christ he was a joke on Colbert at that point.

[StrangeSox]

Because posting a link to the post.. is too much to ask... Got it.

this board has a s***/non-existent search function, find it yourself.

[VictoryMC98]

It's on you to post it. Never mind that you already did it. It's on you to post it again.

 

Well since s/he never did.. all s/he did was.. the question, .. I would expect anything less than go find it.. Since it is never there, I never will. S/he hope is that I will forget about it.

 

I just went through the entire thread... ZERO answers to that. Though, I did have a good laugh at Sk 2.0 again trying to use Javy as an example.. quite entertaining.

[StrangeSox]

re-read it again, junior. its in there.

 

(hint: the answer is literally "anyone on any roster in all of baseball")

[southsider2k5]

re-read it again, junior. its in there.

 

(hint: the answer is literally "anyone on any roster in all of baseball")

 

With new and improve statistical back up.

[VictoryMC98]

With new and improve statistical back up.

[caulfield12]

With new and improve statistical back up.

 

Improved.

 

Automatic grammar/spell-check to make Greg and my posts more coherent and brief/pithy.

Condenses single paragraphs into a sentence.

[Quin]

Well since s/he never did.. all s/he did was.. the question, .. I would expect anything less than go find it.. Since it is never there, I never will. S/he hope is that I will forget about it.

 

I just went through the entire thread... ZERO answers to that. Though, I did have a good laugh at Sk 2.0 again trying to use Javy as an example.. quite entertaining.

 

 

Oh f*** no.

 

But, there is allot of bad money on that team as well. They also have a great pitchers park, which history has proven is easier to build a winner.

 

Huh?

 

 

Can you give me an actually question?

 

Can you give him an actually answer? No. You can't. You dodged it.

 

Can you establish beyond any sort of doubt that a pitchers park helps a team build a winner? Thinking back over the last decade, you've got teams like the Yankees, Phillies, and Red Sox with hitters parks, the Rangers have become a winner with a hitters park, the White Sox won in a hitters park, the Rockies had a WS appearance, the Diamondbacks have a WS win, the Astros had a WS appearance, the Twins had a ton of playoff appearances while in a hitters park, switched to a pitchers' park, and still made the playoffs.

 

You said it's 100% certain that a pitchers park helps build a winner, but if that were true, then we'd have a lot more pitchers parks.

 

 

I am stating what some GMs have stated over the years.. repeating it.

 

The f*** you did. You stated that pitchers parks make easy winners as shown by history.

 

What's this? A dodge.

[Quin]

Hey victory is there anything Ozzie could ever do or not do that would cause you to think he's not a good manager?

 

 

I have never heard that said. Link?

 

Oh hey! Two questions that you dodged. You never provided a link to this mythical quote and never answered StrangeSox.

 

Nice find, and if that is the case.. I blame Kenny.. if a player is on the decline, and you ink him to a huge $ 4 year deal.. What player is going to go nope, I really don't deserve it. Then for the fans, the easy scapegoat is the manager.

 

A slump is not a f***ing decline or Paul Konerko would be done in baseball.

 

Its true, once a player who has been consistent for the better part of a decade has one bad part of a season, he's "on the decline" and should never be signed to a big money contract again.

 

Hey! He never responded to this s***.

[Quin]

Martinez would have been the smart signing, looking back on it. But hindsight is 20/20.

 

Dunn, can play the OF and 1b.. not very well but can if need be. I also looked at him if Paulie went to AZI as his replacement.

 

Now if Kenny went out and grabbed an older guy who couldn't play the field at all, then I say you have a point.

 

We tried signing Martinez. And Dunn. And probably Paulie. V-Mart would have caught.

 

So, wait, what, we did try to sign the guy you wanted?! Crazy! Also the Tigers really wanted Dunn too.

 

 

So only the teams that come out guns blazing are winners?

 

No, but it sure as f*** helps. If the Red Sox miss the playoffs its because they had a s*** start as well.

 

That's a pretty interesting dichotomy you've made up there.

 

No, teams that always come out playing flat that also happen to follow the manager's philosophy of taking it easy on vets during ST and not pushing the team to get ready probably don't have the best approach and dig themselves into a big hole because of it.

 

 

Do you want to explain how veterans consistently fail in Chicago, and yet that is Kenny Williams fault?

 

Never answered.

 

Like giving Ozzie new players pretty much every year?

 

Never answered.

 

Give me some examples...

 

HOW ABOUT YOU GIVE A f***ING EXAMPLE.

 

I'm still waiting on definitive proof that pitchers parks are a good way to win championships.

 

DODGED.

[Quin]

You're still using the great Javy as your example... Wow... Even when proven wrong you stick to your guns.

 

Javy had a really f***ing good year right after leaving.

 

And have been shot down... try again.

 

Yes, you had been.

 

Not even close.

 

Plus you still haven't been able to explain the stadium thing, the spring training thing, nor why these guys fail when they get here.

 

So I guess you can't be shot down when you just ignore every challenge that gets made to you.

 

But wait, is that DODGING?

 

You know admitting you're wrong, would go a long way here...

 

YES IT f***ING WOULD.

 

No.. he would have won the CY in 2010, if it wasn't for those pesky stats.

 

EXCEPT THERE'S THIS LITTLE THING CALLED NEW YORK. IN ATLANTA HE ALMOST DID WIN THE CY YOUNG.

 

I agree..

 

HE WAS MOCKING YOU.

 

lol. You can't prove a damned thing, which is why you've gone straight to the third graded on the playground strategy.

 

What is your next work? na-na-na?

 

That's dodging!

[Quin]

then how did the sox win in a hitters park in 05 and why havent the padres or braves won a w.s. recently? and the yankees won a w.s. in probably the best hitters park lol

 

DODGED.

 

 

I guess when you are wrong, just look the other way.. You want to prove Ozzie was the problem, then gave some examples.. which were debunked, then attacked on other things.. and now try to save face, by spinning again.

 

Look if you can't come up with examples, then we are done.

 

 

Sez the guy who hasn't proved anything when called on it? Please.

 

 

I did... I don't think you got mine.

 

NO. YOU DIDN'T GET HIS.

 

This isn't about me, this is about you.. And YOU Proving Ozzie is the problem, but since you can't... you make it about me, to save your face.

 

Nah, it's about you.

 

Now we get to your Ozzie argument..

 

Thank you, I knew you had it in you.

 

Is it in you?

 

Park Correction Factors, 2011

 

Seems like a pretty mixed bag of hitters v pitchers and which teams are good

 

He won't acknowledge it.

 

I have. I have given examples, stats, trends, and pretty much anything else.

 

You haven't given a damned thing other than conjecture.

 

I am still waiting for your answers on the many things people have questioned you on, that you have ignored.

 

He won't give them!

 

List out those 6 years please.

 

[Quin]

 

 

2006: second-half collapse

2007: 90 losses

2008: barely won the division; dismissed with ease by Tampa.

2009: sub-.500 record

2010: another second-half choke

2011: team-record payroll; 15 games out.

 

That's a whole lot of fail. Especially when the top 3 AL powerhouses are in the AL east.

 

 

2006: Zero Bullpen, and zero help at the deadline... OOO and lack of CF which is a theme for a while..You give Ozzie some Bullpen help and a starting CF.. Different story.

2007: Erstad was the fa-king opening day CF.. Sorry this is one of many Sox teams that was lacking talent. so many holes, so little talent

2008: Carlos breaks his hand, Swisher is opening Day CF ( which IMO was his worst position) which is also a overreaction since Erstad failed to pan out. I think we all wonder, what would have happened if Carlos doesn't break his hand, how far could they have gone.. I do agree the talent looked completely overmatch compared to Tampa, but that's Ozzie's fault?

2009: First see 2007 then Another KW, draft pick goes belly up in Josh Fields, so zero 3b, until they rushed Beckham up to save.. Zero CF, until KW thinking he is blocking DET get Rios off the waiver wire. ( that worked out well for us huh?)

2010: Jenks( do I need to say more?) he should have been traded at the end of the 08 season IMO, Beckham regress, and drumroll please, when they needed RP, Kenny went out and got them SP.. Though on the bright side, the Sox have their first CF since Rowand left.. 4.5 year later. Or so we thought.

2011: KW built team that is "All IN" but mostly strike out.

 

I'm not at all thinking Ozzie is perfect... But, the majority of the problem with this organization starts with Kenny. And I saw earlier you mention both should be fired.. I agree. But if I have to pick one to get fired.. Kenny is the guy.

 

'06: We had a great BP going into the year.

'07: Oz's choice.

'08: Swisher wasn't opening day CF.

'09: We had zero CF because Ozzie really f***ing love Wise.

'10: Ozzie kept trotting Jenks out.

'11: They are towards the bottom in strikeouts.

 

 

Yet you felt justified in saying no one ever blames KW for anything...

 

DIDN'T RESPOND

[Quin]

Kenny likes to throw Ozzie under the bus, just as much as Ozzie throws Kenny under the bus.... SO it obvious what needs to happen

 

 

Hide the bus!

 

Neither of them did this.

 

But Ozzie threw Viciedo there.

 

And play who?

 

Sorry that's a cop out argument...

 

Here is the problem, in a normal team, you bat him 7-8-9th to get out of his slump... on this team you do that.. One inning you have a 3 up and 3 down, from 3/4 here of Beckham, Morel, Rios and Dunn.

 

So you bench the other 3 guys as well?

 

No, but you sure as f*** don't have him batting 3rd or 4th with Rios right there.

 

So he played roughly 16 games... OOOO NOOO out of 28 games... Are you wanting Beckham Benched as well? Morel? Rios?

 

Who replaces these guys if the answer is yes?

 

Morel and Gordon both provide phenomenal D. De Aza for Rios, Viciedo for Dunn.

Seriously? Who else could he have played? I dunno, Lilibridge, Vicedo, me, Hawk, literally anyone other than the player having the worst season in the history of the sport.

 

Is that really an earth shattering revelation to you?

 

 

And who plays for Rios and Dunn?

 

Because winning teams have 26million in 2 bench players all the time..

 

Not like you referenced the Giants earlier or anything

 

Well if 48abs is allot for Dunn, a bench player getting 49 might be huge.. don't you think?

 

No, when Dunn shouldn't be hitting at all, it's not.

 

The fact people are stating Lilly would have saved this team is downright laughable.

 

 

And what the fans thought in April is relevant how? The object here was/is to win baseball games. Less Dunn and more Lillibridge gives you a better chance to do just that.

 

 

There's that word again. Wanna rethink that? There's a difference between "saved" and putting the best players on the field.

 

I don't think I stated anything wrong there. It seems that people(not just here, in real life as well) thinking Lilly playing everyday, the sox are going to the playoffs. Which is simple not true..

 

And how is playing your best UTL man everyday going to help you win? Who replaces him then?

 

 

IGNORE MORE POINTS.